AN Naturalisation - various questions and uncertainities

[hrbix]

Hi there, I've got a few doubts / questions about my AN naturalisation form I'd appreciate it if someone can help me. Cheers a lot in advance

1) I'm an EU citizen, who's been in the UK for over 8 years (including my whole family) and is applying for the citizenship based on 5(1) years. I have studied here in the UK since I moved here over 8 years ago but there is one part which says you must have been physically present in the UK 5 years before the application is received by the HO. I remember that them 5 years ago we had half-term holidays in school and I'm not sure if that does not clash with the date HO will receive my application. Does that still count although I have been resident here for 8 years but it just happens that them 5 years ago I was absent when we had half-term holidays in school? I mean it is kinda obvious that some families want go on holiday abroad when their kids have half-term holidays in school here in the UK.

2) My absence out of the UK is reaching high figures due to the fact that I have done various summer internships abroad over the last 4 years while studying at uni here in the UK. Furthermore, another reason for my high absence is that as I part of my university course I had to go on a mandatory study placement to Spain and therefore I was out of the UK for almost a year. I have letter from my university confirming that I went on this placement as well as I'm planning on enclosing a certificate, which shows that I have passed this placement year and the year in which this placement was done. Although I will mention it as my absence will it actually count as absence seeing as I have been here for over 8 years and these reasons for my absence are related to business trips, internships and mandatory placements as a part of my university degree here in the UK?

3) Once I have sent off my application do I have to be present in the UK, I have been accepted on a course to do a month long qualification to becoming an English teacher to give me the opportunity to travel in the future, however, my intention is to carry on living in the UK and work here. Does that affect me in any way? I would obviously come back here to get my BRM registered at the post office but would not be able to do that while doing this course as any absence on this course could have a negative impact on my final grade.

[CR001]

1. The requirement of being physically present in the UK 5 years previously means exactly that, this includes any absence at that specific time for holiday, work etc. If you were not here, apply on a date when you were.

2. A 1 year absence might be a problem. You don't state what your total absence is, this will be helpful to get accurate advice.

3. No, you do not have to stay in the UK once you have applied but please bear in mind that you will be sent a letter to enroll your biometric information at the Post Office and there is a 15 day window to do this once you receive the letter.

[noajthan]

Hi there, I've got a few doubts / questions about my AN naturalisation form I'd appreciate it if someone can help me. Cheers a lot in advance

1) ...
I mean it is kinda obvious that some families want go on holiday abroad when their kids have half-term holidays in school here in the UK.

2) My absence out of the UK is reaching high figures due to the fact that I have done various summer internships abroad over the last 4 years while studying at uni here in the UK. Furthermore, another reason for my high absence is that as I part of my university course I had to go on a mandatory study placement to Spain and therefore I was out of the UK for almost a year. I have letter from my university confirming that I went on this placement as well as I'm planning on enclosing a certificate, which shows that I have passed this placement year and the year in which this placement was done. Although I will mention it as my absence will it actually count as absence seeing as I have been here for over 8 years and these reasons for my absence are related to business trips, internships and mandatory placements as a part of my university degree here in the UK?

1) Don't forget you are dealing with a rule-bound & procedure-bound Kafkaesque Government bureaucracy here.

2) Section 5 of HO guidance booklet enumerates the discretion that may be applied regarding absences from UK.

Once you have counted up your absences you may like to dig into pages 7-8

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... n_2015.pdf

[hrbix]

Thank you guys I will calculate my absence I will post it on here. I think I will wait like a week or so just to be 100% sure that I was physically present here in the UK 5 years ago before my application is received by the HO.

Regarding my absence I have come across another problem. I cannot exactly find out all the dates I was absent from the UK for the past 5 years. I can be fairly precise with the last 2-3 years but when it comes to 4,5 years I'm just a human being and I don't remember all of this. I frequently go abroad on holiday for a few days or a week at least 4-5 times a year. I don't only fly but I go by car quite a lot and since not all the bookings are made by me I often cannot find out, which day exactly I left and which day exactly I came back. I have tried to request information from e.g. Ryanair who I fly with very often but the don't hold this information on their system so there is literally no way of me find out. As I am an EU citizen I don't apply for visa or anything I just go on holiday with my passport. As a part of free European movement our passports never get checked when leaving the UK only on the way back. How important is the accuracy of providing the exact dates of my UK absence? I would obviously provide as accurate information as I have but when going back about 3/4/5 years ago I will only be able to make rough guesses of some of my trips abroad.

[noajthan]

Thank you guys I will calculate my absence I will post it on here. I think I will wait like a week or so just to be 100% sure that I was physically present here in the UK 5 years ago before my application is received by the HO.

Regarding my absence I have come across another problem. I cannot exactly find out all the dates I was absent from the UK for the past 5 years. I can be fairly precise with the last 2-3 years but when it comes to 4,5 years I'm just a human being and I don't remember all of this. I frequently go abroad on holiday for a few days or a week at least 4-5 times a year. I don't only fly but I go by car quite a lot and since not all the bookings are made by me I often cannot find out, which day exactly I left and which day exactly I came back. I have tried to request information from e.g. Ryanair who I fly with very often but the don't hold this information on their system so there is literally no way of me find out. As I am an EU citizen I don't apply for visa or anything I just go on holiday with my passport. As a part of free European movement our passports never get checked when leaving the UK only on the way back. How important is the accuracy of providing the exact dates of my UK absence? I would obviously provide as accurate information as I have but when going back about 3/4/5 years ago I will only be able to make rough guesses of some of my trips abroad.

You can try applying for a SAR from UKVI & see how much they have on their files about your movements in/out of UK:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

[hrbix]

Thanks guys for your advice....it took me long time but I have calculated all my absence my on information hold by my employer and my e-mails showing flights, which I have booked myself or someone else did for me. I have calculated my absence and it comes to just slightly under 800 days. I have been a resident here for over 8 years. Started studying in the UK in Sept 2007. I believe I should be fine with such high absence. In addition about 220-300 days of this absence would be due to studying in Spain for a year as a part of my university degree here in the UK. My university has sent me a letter confirming that it was a compulsory study placement as a part of my degree. Will HO accept that and disregard this absence? I've read somewhere that a study/professional experience should be disregarded?

[noajthan]

Thanks guys for your advice....it took me long time but I have calculated all my absence my on information hold by my employer and my e-mails showing flights, which I have booked myself or someone else did for me. I have calculated my absence and it comes to just slightly under 800 days. I have been a resident here for over 8 years. Started studying in the UK in Sept 2007. I believe I should be fine with such high absence. In addition about 220-300 days of this absence would be due to studying in Spain for a year as a part of my university degree here in the UK. My university has sent me a letter confirming that it was a compulsory study placement as a part of my degree. Will HO accept that and disregard this absence? I've read somewhere that a study/professional experience should be disregarded?

In connection with a naturalisation application, you will have to make a case (eg via cover letter) within the guidance & on basis of your 8+ years residence in UK.

As you are an EEA national you will also have to check your absences have not broken your residency & exercise of treaty rights in UK.

These are different rules involving different time periods.
Normally a maximum 6 months from UK per 12 months period is permitted.
And one exceptional absence of 12 months may be permitted if it is deemed justifiable.

This may be what you allude to in relation to "study/professional experience".
Suggest you will need to dig into the EU rules further.

[hrbix]

Thank you noajthan for your clarification! This placement in Spain was more than a year ago so it should not come under the rule of absence in the last 12 months. I have been given an official letter from my university justifying that this was a core module need to satisfy the requirements of my university degree, which I believe should be a good justification. Furthermore, I have never applied to become a resident in Spain during that period of time so in theory this should be regarded as absence rather than interrupting my residency period here in the UK.

[noajthan]

Thank you noajthan for your clarification! This placement in Spain was more than a year ago so it should not come under the rule of absence in the last 12 months. I have been given an official letter from my university justifying that this was a core module need to satisfy the requirements of my university degree, which I believe should be a good justification. Furthermore, I have never applied to become a resident in Spain during that period of time so in theory this should be regarded as absence rather than interrupting my residency period here in the UK.

As I mentioned above, the EU rules on continuity are different - and cover absences of up to 6 months in any 12 month period (every year).

By going away for about a year you will have broken that.
The question is whether your reason will be accepted under the 'one-time absence of up to 12 months'-clause of the EU rules.

These are the EU rules you now have to check out
ie completely separate from the UK immigration and naturalisation rules you are quoting.

[hrbix]

Hi guys, I've got a coumple of questions I'd like to ask you and would appreciate it if someone could help me.

1. In terms of supporting documents, I've lived in the UK for the past 8 years and studies here but I have also been part-time employed for the past 6 years. My question is I have a UK EHIC, which doesn't prove my insurance for the time being a student so I though that the easiest way would be to show the HO my P60 slips. I have got P60 slips for the past 6 years up until April 2015, which is the date when I always receive my P60. So I cannot obviously show them that I have been exercising my treaty rights as an EAA national based on P60 between April up until now. I believe that this is quite normal seeing as I will not get another P60 until April 2016. How do I prove that I have been exercising the treaty rights for the period of April 2015 - October 2015 the date by which I want to send my application? I have asked my employer for a letter which is stating that I've been working for this person since March 2009 up until present. Will that be sufficient? Would that show that I'm still exercising my treaty rights as an employee?

2. I have recently obtained a degree from a UK university and have got all my original certificates as well as a letter from my university confirming that I have successfully completed my degree with upper class honors. Based on this and what I have read I should not need to do any English exams, however, I have came across this: There is a need for an original letter or certificate from UK NARIC confirming that the equivalent level of your degree. I believe that there is no need for this if I can send the HO my original Degree certificate from a UK university as well as the letter I have been issued with? I wouldn't see any reason for paying to NARIC to compare it a verify it seeing as the degree was done in the UK? Am I right?

[tyx]

1. The letter from your employer should be sufficient. You could also add your monthly payslips since April.
2. You don't need anything else. Tha NARIC thing is for people with foreign degrees.

[hrbix]

Thank you !!

[hrbix]

Just one more question I have though of. My absence is quite high reaching almost 780 but I have been a resident for over 8 years. I have put down the company I have worked for for the past 6.5 years and the school where I studied. Would I need to get a confirmation letter from my other school where I did my GCSEs for the two years prior to when I started working to prove that I have been a resident here for over 8 years? I'm also saying this as my total absence is really high and the main reason for my absence is doing Erasmus (study placement) in Spain (accounting for about 250 of absence - I have come back to the UK on several occasions so the absence would not be all in one but the 250 would be divided to 3 different sections) as a part of my university degree, which was a compulsory part of my degree and I have a letter from my university confirming that. I believe that due to the fact that it was compulsory and was a part of my university degree and related to studying this absence should not be taken into account?

Furthermore, my absence for the last year has also been very high - over 100 days - about 129, however, about 15 days out of this was a business trip as the company I work requires traveling for business reason and another 45 days out of this absence was an internship in Spain that was agreed by my company in order so that I improve my current skills and will be able to add more value to the business in the future. I have got a letter from my employer confirming this. So in theory my absence would be about 69 days, however, it is 129 due to the fact that 60 days were spent on business trips and 'professional training' if I could say it this way.
My whole family lives in the UK and I have been here for 8 years, which means that I comply with the first two rules of being here over 8 years + demonstrating links with the UK by having my family here and working for a UK based business. However, would my case of professional training and business trip also apply to the 3rd condition: an exceptionally compelling reason?

[tyx]

I would call the Home Office and ask them... you are an EEA national so they would only be interested in the last 6 years. If your long absence is recent, maybe you'll have to wait..

[hrbix]

I have tried to contact them regarding my situation via helpline since I started working on my application about a month and a half ago. Unfortunately their adviser seem to have known less then I do about such situation, which really disappointed me. I also remember speaking to another adviser, who told me that every application is unique itself and it depends on my conditions and that only the case worker can decide. Yet again another advice that clarified absolutely nothing to me. I thought that I might add that due to the nature of the business I work for I will always need to go on business trips many times a year so I will never be able to have low absence within the last 12 months, however, my absence is very unlikely to ever go over 140-50 days. Does the fact that I work for a UK based business that is 90% reliant on going abroad in order to generate revenue not count as a special circumstance? I got my employer to write me a letter explaining my situation for the last 12 months and justifying my travels abroad and my employer is happy to clarify this and left his contact details so I'm guessing that is the most I can do.

[hrbix]

Anyways guys, I very much appreciate your help and trying to answer my complex questions. You have all given me some ideas, which is something I really appreciate !

[Ncl]

Hi everyone,
I have applied for naturalisation. When home office ask my professional refree to fill the form about he knows me. Now the refree ignore to sign the paper and send to home office. He said he can't sign. Now can anyone help me what i can do
Thank you

[hrbix]

Hi guys, I have finally got hold of a knowledgable adviser from the HO who has been able to answer many of my questions to the best of his knowledge and I will proceed with my application. Thank you all for answering my previous queries!!

[fruitful_mind]

Hello hrbix,

Can you please share what kind of answer did you receive from the HO regarding your long stay in Spain as I might be in a similar situation and want to know how do they review such situations. Thanks in advance for your answer.