criminal record for travelling without a ticket

[grisha_golo]

Hi all

Please help. I'm on HSMP visa and got criminal record for travelling without a ticket on tube. Will it disqualify me from getting ILR in future?

Many thanks,
grisha

[SYH]

Not necessarily but why are people getting into this jam a lot.

There is a massive campaign about this so at this point, so not much sympathy is going to be left for this type of infraction.

[grisha_golo]

Not necessarily but why are people getting into this jam a lot.

There is a massive campaign about this so at this point, so not much sympathy is going to be left for this type of infraction.

Thank you!
That was rather silly accident. Is there any way I can improve my chances of getting it. I can't believe I can be thrown out of the country after 7 years of work and paying taxes for traveling once without a ticket.

[Mr Rusty]

Hi all

Please help. I'm on HSMP visa and got criminal record for travelling without a ticket on tube. Will it disqualify me from getting ILR in future?

Many thanks,
grisha

No - but don't make a habit of it, you never know...

[SYH]

Not necessarily but why are people getting into this jam a lot.

There is a massive campaign about this so at this point, so not much sympathy is going to be left for this type of infraction.

Thank you!
That was rather silly accident. Is there any way I can improve my chances of getting it. NO, just don't improve your criminal record


I can't believe I can be thrown out of the country after 7 years of work and paying taxes for traveling once without a ticket.
Really! Stop being so melodramatic, everything is done on a case by case basis,

[grisha_golo]

Not necessarily but why are people getting into this jam a lot.
There is a massive campaign about this so at this point, so not much sympathy is going to be left for this type of infraction.

Thank you!
That was rather silly accident. Is there any way I can improve my chances of getting it. NO, just don't improve your criminal record

I can't believe I can be thrown out of the country after 7 years of work and paying taxes for traveling once without a ticket.
Really! Stop being so melodramatic, everything is done on a case by case basis,

So you think I still can get it?

Regards,
Grisha

[avjones]

What actually happened? Did you go to court, or were you just given a penalty notice to pay on the spot?

[grisha_golo]

What actually happened? Did you go to court, or were you just given a penalty notice to pay on the spot?

Yes there was a court. I did not go there in person. Just received a letter afterwards about the fine and payed it.

[JAJ]

Thank you!
That was rather silly accident. Is there any way I can improve my chances of getting it. I can't believe I can be thrown out of the country after 7 years of work and paying taxes for traveling once without a ticket.

Did you only do it once - or was it a number of times before you got caught?

In any case the advice is the same as previous. If it was a court conviction you will need to declare it until it becomes "spent" (5 years) even though it may not be a bar to anything. If you get caught again then you may well have problems.

Bear in mind that it is likely over the coming years that British law is going to get a lot stricter concerning criminal behaviour and eligibility for residence or citizenship (as is the case in the United States).

[SYH]

Not necessarily but why are people getting into this jam a lot.

There is a massive campaign about this so at this point, so not much sympathy is going to be left for this type of infraction.

Thank you!
That was rather silly accident. Is there any way I can improve my chances of getting it. I can't believe I can be thrown out of the country after 7 years of work and paying taxes for traveling once without a ticket.

Usually when people get caught, it wasn't the first time they didn't pay, it is just the first time they got caught.
It is pretty hard to accidently ride the tube without paying so I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't get so melodramatic and try throw you paying taxes for 7 years as a shield of innocence. You are the foreignor in this country. Your job is to play by the rules so why would you be so silly and risk your chances with something as inconsequential as a tube ticket????

[avjones]

Yes, it could have an effect on both futher leave to remain and on ILR, until the conviction is spent (5 years for a fine).

It's a crime of dishonesty.

[Boom05]

I feel sorry for grisha. I dont know the implication of his record on ILR but I have heard of negative implication it has on getting a job or securing university admission. It really can be inconveniencing cos you have to disclose this each time you fill a form that asked for criminal record. You can imagine the embarasment of having to say it in a high profile interview, you would have turn people off before you are able to tell them it involves minor indiscretion like train tickets

I have a pal who works as a train ticket inspector, he said i'll be amazed at the number of people getting themselves to this kind of situation cos they refused to be bothered to do simple thing like touching in or out or finding out where their tickect is valid to. He also said the courts do invite offenders to defend themselves but usually people do not bother to show up cos they feel its just a minor matter and would therefore be convicted in absentia. Meanwhile, if you bother to attend the court you might be able to convince the judge that its a mistake or whatever. Its really an offence veiwed seriously by the rail industry and there laws guiding it dating back to 18.. (100+ years).

[Mr Rusty]

Yes, it could have an effect on both futher leave to remain and on ILR, until the conviction is spent (5 years for a fine).

It's a crime of dishonesty.

Well, it "could have", as part of string of convictions, but if it's the OP's only offence it won't have any effect on his/her application for ILR. Para 135G of the Immmigration Rules sets out the requirements for an HSMP holder applying for ILR, and Para 135HA sets out the grounds for refusal, which don't include any mention of a criminal record.
If you look at the General Grounds for refusal of LTR you find (inter alia):

"Refusal of variation of leave to enter or remain or curtailment of leave
322. In addition to the grounds for refusal of extension of stay set out in Parts 2-8 of these Rules, the following provisions apply in relation to the refusal of an application for variation of leave to enter or remain or, where appropriate, the curtailment of leave:

Grounds on which an application to vary leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom should normally be refused

(5) the undesirability of permitting the person concerned to remain in the United Kingdom in the light of his character, conduct or associations or the fact that he represents a threat to national security;...."

Again, no specific mention of a criminal record, but any such record could be considered under "character and conduct". One paltry fine for bilking a Tube fare is hardly likely to be considered grounds for ejecting someone from the UK, and any attempt to do so would surely be judged disproportionate, particularly in relation to the provisions for raising a Deportation Order, which is only triggered by a prison sentence of at least one year.
- Unless I've missed something?

Not that I'm condoning fare bilkers - they should be summarily flogged on the spot, along with other such antisocial types.

[avjones]

Any criminal record can be considered under that paragraph - it would certainly be disproportionate to deport for that, or even to curtail. But it can be considered when further leave is applied for.

[grisha_golo]

Any criminal record can be considered under that paragraph - it would certainly be disproportionate to deport for that, or even to curtail. But it can be considered when further leave is applied for.

Thanks everybody for answering.
I have my fingers crossed!

[SYH]

Not that I'm condoning fare bilkers - they should be summarily flogged on the spot, along with other such antisocial types.

I second the flogging as punishment

[OL7MAX]

I don't have a criminal record but it's pretty easy in modern Britain so it's just a matter of time for me. One day a speed camera (oh, sorry, "Safety Camera") is going to catch me confused by a barrage of signs and a postal strike will prevent me getting the paperwork. Or I'll end up joining a peaceful protest without realising that the organisers didn't get the right clearances (remember the legislation brought in to deter Brian Haw!?) Or I'll pay an employee per widget they make and one smart mule will take me to court as his incompetence ends up ensuring he gets less than minimum wage when calculated per hour. Or I'll get to the last train at an unmanned station and find the ticket machine not working.

It's even easier to get your DNA on the outrageous national police database.

[SYH]

I don't have a criminal record but it's pretty easy in modern Britain so it's just a matter of time for me.

I can agree with this but if you purposely evade paying for tube ticket, then you are just asking for it.

Getting caught up in the bureacracy is a completely different category which is why I am really cautious to the point of paranoid that I do things in order to avoid any issues.
(ie I never drive without a license, if I forget, I turnaround and go back home, I don't bother crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.)

[OL7MAX]

With nothing else to watch yesterday I tuned into Road Wars. A respectable looking guy in a suit had some eggs thrown at him by some youth for no reason at all. He pulled over and called the cops. When a cop car pulled up a few minutes later he thought they were responding to his call and was angrily telling the cop that some b*stards threw eggs at him. The cops arrested him for swearing! I kid you not. Why? It's the easy target principle. They didn't give chase to get the perpetrators. They caught the guy they could charge. Note: He did not call the cops themselves any names or swear at them. Did he use abusive language in their presence? Yes. Did anyone else hear it? No. But I bet those cops made their target number of arrests that week. And some of those folk were later let off after their DNA was recorded for posterity. Anyone wants to argue that this is not criminal (in the "natural" sense of the word)?

[andretech]

Hi all

Please help. I'm on HSMP visa and got criminal record for travelling without a ticket on tube. Will it disqualify me from getting ILR in future?

Many thanks,
grisha

mate - don't listen to anyone !!!! - i read your question before going to HO to get my ILR - i have similar case , if everything is OK - they will not look at it - just DO fill in all the details and mention that you PAID it in FULL and date when you paid it off - good luck - , one week ago i got my ILR .... and be sensible don't travel without a ticket !

[grisha_golo]

Hi all

Please help. I'm on HSMP visa and got criminal record for travelling without a ticket on tube. Will it disqualify me from getting ILR in future?

Many thanks,
grisha

mate - don't listen to anyone !!!! - i read your question before going to HO to get my ILR - i have similar case , if everything is OK - they will not look at it - just DO fill in all the details and mention that you PAID it in FULL and date when you paid it off - good luck - , one week ago i got my ILR .... and be sensible don't travel without a ticket !

Thank you very much Andre!
I hope I will get it too!