Changes in citizenship App from 12/11 PR Doc Required

[natienka]

Hello,
I hope this is the right forum! My first post, and other posts have been very helpful.

I'm about to apply for citizenship as an EEA national. I've been here for 8 years, registered with WRS when I needed to, have 7 P60s to prove residency etc. We don't have the documents certifying permanent residence.

Can anyone perhaps confirm and help:

1. Do we or do we not need permanent residence cards as EEA nationals after 12th November? As I called to make an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service, the lady said that for appointments from 12th November, everyone will need the Permanent Residence cards.
In panic, I called UKVI and the officer said that's the first he heard of it, put me on hold, and later said that's not correct and as long as I can confirm residence I shouldn't need that card. Which is right??

2. My husband registered for WRS with company name XX Solutions. That's a daughter company of XX Limited (same first part of the name) and most documents from employers will talk about XX Limited. Could that be a problem? Since first WRS registration in 2008 he's been constantly with the same company, just within its different parts / subsidiaries etc, and the letter from employer states his continuous employment since 2008 (so do P60s). Would the slightly different company name on WRS matter?

3. We don't have our original marriage certificate here, just a copy. It's in Polish, anyway. The very last sentence on the newest AN form says: 'SECTION 9 Joint applications • Marriage or civil partnership certificate '. My questions:
a) I thought there are no more joint applications? Is there a different form for that?
b) Do I actually need the original certificate? Why if we're just applying as EEA nationals, rather than based on marriage to British citizen?
c) is my passport enough of a confirmation of a changed surname?

4. Since we don't have permanent residence cards, what should I put in 1.3 (when I was given ILR) - would that be exactly 5 years from when I arrived (two days before my internship started, all legal, no big gaps in dates, no issues there)?

5. is this true that on the day of application (date of meeting with Nationality Checking Service) I should have been in the UK exactly 5 years before that? So if our meeting is 10th Nov 2015, I should have been in the UK on 10th Nov 2010?

Thank you so much!

[noajthan]

Can anyone perhaps confirm and help:

1. Do we or do we not need permanent residence cards as EEA nationals after 12th November? As I called to make an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service, the lady said that for appointments from 12th November, everyone will need the Permanent Residence cards.
In panic, I called UKVI and the officer said that's the first he heard of it, put me on hold, and later said that's not correct and as long as I can confirm residence I shouldn't need that card. Which is right??

2. My husband registered for WRS with company name XX Solutions. That's a daughter company of XX Limited (same first part of the name) and most documents from employers will talk about XX Limited. Could that be a problem? Since first WRS registration in 2008 he's been constantly with the same company, just within its different parts / subsidiaries etc, and the letter from employer states his continuous employment since 2008 (so do P60s). Would the slightly different company name on WRS matter?

3. We don't have our original marriage certificate here, just a copy. It's in Polish, anyway. The very last sentence on the newest AN form says: 'SECTION 9 Joint applications • Marriage or civil partnership certificate '. My questions:
a) I thought there are no more joint applications? Is there a different form for that?
b) Do I actually need the original certificate? Why if we're just applying as EEA nationals, rather than based on marriage to British citizen?
c) is my passport enough of a confirmation of a changed surname?

4. Since we don't have permanent residence cards, what should I put in 1.3 (when I was given ILR) - would that be exactly 5 years from when I arrived (two days before my internship started, all legal, no big gaps in dates, no issues there)?

5. is this true that on the day of application (date of meeting with Nationality Checking Service) I should have been in the UK exactly 5 years before that? So if our meeting is 10th Nov 2015, I should have been in the UK on 10th Nov 2010?

Thank you so much!

1) Sounds incorrect.
Did you question origin & legitimacy of this 12 November 'rumour'?

It couldn't be universally applicable anyway as non-EU applicants (on ILR immigration route) would not have PR (or a 'confirmation of PR' card).

2) If WRS certification is legitimate it should be acceptable.

Are you applying as the dependent family member of an EEA national?

3) a) Huh

There is no section 9 to complete in the AN form.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 9_2015.pdf
- the reference on page 32 makes no sense

b) Depends if applicant is applying in own right or as a dependent family member of other spouse.
In which case an original or certified translated copy would (I believe) be required (as per comments re docs required for Section 4)

c) Depends what change is; if due to marriage then passport plus marriage certificate should suffice

Be aware of challenges facing married women who naturalise in UK as a British citizen in one name (eg married name) but who hold an original passport in another name (eg their maiden name).

4) Q1.3 relates to ILR not PR.
If an EEA national (as stated) you would usually have acquired PR & not ILR.

If a dependent family member (as you appear to be) it could be date your sponsor (spouse) acquired PR.

Or suggest leave it blank (as you don't have 'ILR') & put details of relevant PR date in 'additional info' section of form.

5) Be careful; date of NCS appointment is not your date of application

You are correct, you have to have proof of your physical presence in UK 5 years before the date of application;
however, that is the date that HO receives your application (not the date you happen to visit NCS on).

To determine your estimated date of application, suggest you ask NCS what is their policy on how quickly they usually batch up & send the application bundles off to HO.

Good luck.

[noajthan]

PS Don't forget, if not the spouse of a BC, you have to be free from immigration time restrictions (eg be holding PR) for 12 months before applying for privilege of citizenship;
(as well as meeting all other requirements for naturalisation).

[natienka]

Hello,

Thank you for your responses noajthan !

1. Thanks for confirming, I also think the checking service lady was incorrect! I don't know where she got it from...

2. We are both applying as EEA nationals (A8 hence the WRS). Does that make a difference?

3. Ha! Yeah, I know! There is no section 9 so why on earth are they requesting documents for section 9... sigh.. nevertheless I do wonder if I need the *original* certificate (only have a copy with me) and whether I also need a certified translation...

4. Thank you for your suggestions, but I really don't think I'm applying as a dependent. I'm an EU citizen, so is my husband, so as far as I understand the guidance, I have automatically been granted PR. Now, on many websites they say that PR is a different name of ILR, but if you think they should be treated separately, that's fine by me. I just worry about not writing any date in - won't they automatically reject my application if there isn't a date there?

5. Ah, thanks. I'll make sure I've been in the UK for at least 2 weeks following the appointment (minus 5 years of course). What a strange requirement!

6. Also, I believe I've been free of immigration restrictions for a while - I've been in the UK for 8 years as EU citizen, working (legally and for the same company) all the time, so my understanding is it's fine, right?

[natienka]

Right, I just gave them a call so I'm updating with latest info in case it helps anyone. Btw. is there a way to edit post rather than write a new one? I couldn't find it.

- Once again asked about the need for permanent residence card, they said nothing is changing for EEA nationals so I still don't need to have it even after 12th November... how strange of the NCS lady to have said that!

- section 1.3 (ILR) - does NOT need to be filled in for EEA applicants (provided all standard conditions are met, of course)

- They DO need an original marriage certificate, as well as a translation, even though we're not applying jointly! Sigh. Okay, need to wait for that then

- I was advised that if any fields are left empty, or if I want to explain anything, I should put all that on the blank page 24 OR write a cover letter. I think I'll do both!

[noajthan]

Hello,

Thank you for your responses noajthan !

1) ... I also think the checking service lady was incorrect! I don't know where she got it from.

2. We are both applying as EEA nationals (A8 hence the WRS). Does that make a difference?

4. Thank you for your suggestions, but I really don't think I'm applying as a dependent. I'm an EU citizen, so is my husband, so as far as I understand the guidance, I have automatically been granted PR. Now, on many websites they say that PR is a different name of ILR, but if you think they should be treated separately, that's fine by me. I just worry about not writing any date in - won't they automatically reject my application if there isn't a date there?

6. Also, I believe I've been free of immigration restrictions for a while - I've been in the UK for 8 years as EU citizen, working (legally and for the same company) all the time, so my understanding is it's fine, right?

1) There are various changes to UK Immigration Regulations being activated on 12 Nov, but they seem to mostly relate to students on Tier 4 visas & etc.

2) Congratulations on your foresight in registering properly & in time for WRS.
It sadly caught many good, hard-working people out.

4) I've re-read your introduction, I see you are both working.
You should both be able to apply in own right having each acquired PR.
I'm surprised you've been told you need to submit marriage certificate (as applying as an 'individual' in own right &, in general, an individual may not have one!);

BUT if you do have to submit one, yes, an original would be required.

6) As you've been here in UK for approx 8 years & working continuously there must be a 5-year time period in which you acquired PR plus a following 12 months in which you've held PR.

It's explained better here in forum FAQS:
british-citizenship/citizenship-faqs-co ... 95747.html
- see Q5

Yes, a cogent cover letter can surely help 'spoonfeed' the caseworker to make it easier for them to process you;
hopefully leaving the HO with less 'wriggle room' for queries or (perish the thought) refusal.

PS be aware of challenges facing married women who naturalise in UK as a British citizen in one name (eg married name) but who hold an original passport in another name (eg their maiden name).

Good luck.

[natienka]

Thank you so much for all your help noajthan .

I am waiting for my marriage certificate and translation - better safe than sorry. I'd rather submit too much than too little! My passport is in my married name (under which I'm applying) so no issues there, but that may be why they need the marriage certificate - to confirm why I changed it. Anyway...

Okay, last question I think!

Section 1.53 0 employment history.

I have worked for the same corporation since 2007, however had many job titles and subsidiary companies within in that I worked for. Shall I list only 1 employer?
I'm steering towards listing all because there is a column 'occupation' and that was changing every couple of years or so. Also in the very beginning, the subsidiary company had a different name.

My employer's letter nicely states that I've worked for them since Nov 2007 and my recent job title is X. So I think that's a good one to round it all up and explain further on the blank page.

Would you agree?

[noajthan]

Thank you so much for all your help noajthan .

I am waiting for my marriage certificate and translation - better safe than sorry. I'd rather submit too much than too little! My passport is in my married name (under which I'm applying) so no issues there, but that may be why they need the marriage certificate - to confirm why I changed it. Anyway...

Okay, last question I think!

Section 1.53 0 employment history.

I have worked for the same corporation since 2007, however had many job titles and subsidiary companies within in that I worked for. Shall I list only 1 employer?
I'm steering towards listing all because there is a column 'occupation' and that was changing every couple of years or so. Also in the very beginning, the subsidiary company had a different name.

My employer's letter nicely states that I've worked for them since Nov 2007 and my recent job title is X. So I think that's a good one to round it all up and explain further on the blank page.

Would you agree?

As long as current passport and current name line up it should be acceptable.

On employment history, listing a single company name may suffice.
But if you think its more appropriate, no harm in presenting it as you think makes most sense.

As long as HO can identify you & the company they will crosscheck & verify as they may wish.

Good luck.

[demiane]

Hello,
I hope this is the right forum! My first post, and other posts have been very helpful.

I'm about to apply for citizenship as an EEA national. I've been here for 8 years, registered with WRS when I needed to, have 7 P60s to prove residency etc. We don't have the documents certifying permanent residence.

Can anyone perhaps confirm and help:

1. Do we or do we not need permanent residence cards as EEA nationals after 12th November? As I called to make an appointment with the Nationality Checking Service, the lady said that for appointments from 12th November, everyone will need the Permanent Residence cards.
In panic, I called UKVI and the officer said that's the first he heard of it, put me on hold, and later said that's not correct and as long as I can confirm residence I shouldn't need that card. Which is right??

2. My husband registered for WRS with company name XX Solutions. That's a daughter company of XX Limited (same first part of the name) and most documents from employers will talk about XX Limited. Could that be a problem? Since first WRS registration in 2008 he's been constantly with the same company, just within its different parts / subsidiaries etc, and the letter from employer states his continuous employment since 2008 (so do P60s). Would the slightly different company name on WRS matter?

3. We don't have our original marriage certificate here, just a copy. It's in Polish, anyway. The very last sentence on the newest AN form says: 'SECTION 9 Joint applications • Marriage or civil partnership certificate '. My questions:
a) I thought there are no more joint applications? Is there a different form for that?
b) Do I actually need the original certificate? Why if we're just applying as EEA nationals, rather than based on marriage to British citizen?
c) is my passport enough of a confirmation of a changed surname?

4. Since we don't have permanent residence cards, what should I put in 1.3 (when I was given ILR) - would that be exactly 5 years from when I arrived (two days before my internship started, all legal, no big gaps in dates, no issues there)?

5. is this true that on the day of application (date of meeting with Nationality Checking Service) I should have been in the UK exactly 5 years before that? So if our meeting is 10th Nov 2015, I should have been in the UK on 10th Nov 2010?

Thank you so much!

Unfortunately, the permanent residence card is now a requirement for EEA nationals applying for citizenship. Booklet AN and Guide AN documents have been updated on 28 October and they specifically refer to this requirement. There is nothing about Treaty Rights anymore, just the PR card. They do not say when this will start becoming a requirement though! I strongly suggest calling HO to find out more about this.

See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 96899.html

[demiane]

The PR card requirement will actually come into force on 12 November 2015 so the NCS advisor was right.

http://www.mcgillandco.co.uk/Blog/2015/ ... tizenship/

[LilyLalilu]

Does this then mean that one can only apply one year from the issue date of the PR confirmation card?
Or does one just needs to get the PR confirmation card but can still apply one year from the date PR was actually acquired (and supply additional docs)?
Very confusing new requirement which would only make sense if a PR card contained the date PR was actually acquired instead of the issue date...

[Obie]

I am making this a Sticky topic.

This is the Statutory Provision.

I think this is bound to create serious problem.

I have 3 Citizens and Registration applications pending, and in the absence of Transitional provision, one will only have to challenge this via Judicial Review on the basis of Legitimate expectation.

[btrx81]

Hi All,

I am from a previously known as A8 EEA country and I registered with WRS which was approved on July 2008. Ever since I have been living and working in the UK.

My citizenship application was refused on 20 October 2015 as HO says I have not met with the residency requirements. I have given evidence of 7.5 years of residency in UK. And in addition i also applied for a PR card (issued in March 2015) which I included in my application.

Should I have applied for the Permanent Residency Card prior my citizenship application and wait for 12 moths?
Am I right to say that PR card was not necessary at the time of my application if I can prove 5+1 year to the HO?

Any comments are appreciated

[Obie]

Yes you are correct.

[demiane]

Hi All,

I am from a previously known as A8 EEA country and I registered with WRS which was approved on July 2008. Ever since I have been living and working in the UK.

My citizenship application was refused on 20 October 2015 as HO says I have not met with the residency requirements. I have given evidence of 7.5 years of residency in UK. And in addition i also applied for a PR card (issued in March 2015) which I included in my application.

Should I have applied for the Permanent Residency Card prior my citizenship application and wait for 12 moths?
Am I right to say that PR card was not necessary at the time of my application if I can prove 5+1 year to the HO?

Any comments are appreciated

I suggest you apply for reconsideration as it seems that they took into consideration the issue date of your PR card as evidence for PR status. This has happened to other people in the forum. You say you provided evidence of 7.5 years of residency in UK. You only need to provide evidence of exercising EC Treaty Rights for a continuous period of 5 years. After 5 years you acquire permanent residence status and then you have to wait 12 months before you apply for citizenship (unless you are married to a British citizen, then you can apply straight away). Of course providing more evidence does not mean it will lead to an unsuccessful application. What kind of evidence did you provide? P60s, letters from employers, payslips?

[btrx81]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply
I have got my appeal letter written up, I sending it off including all sort of docs such as p60s, letters etc
The same pack that I had along with the application
I hope it will be approved at this time

[tyx]

Does this then mean that one can only apply one year from the issue date of the PR confirmation card?
Or does one just needs to get the PR confirmation card but can still apply one year from the date PR was actually acquired (and supply additional docs)?
Very confusing new requirement which would only make sense if a PR card contained the date PR was actually acquired instead of the issue date...

So is there an answer to this? I can't find one, looking through the forum..

[kirifella]

Does this then mean that one can only apply one year from the issue date of the PR confirmation card?
Or does one just needs to get the PR confirmation card but can still apply one year from the date PR was actually acquired (and supply additional docs)?
Very confusing new requirement which would only make sense if a PR card contained the date PR was actually acquired instead of the issue date...

So is there an answer to this? I can't find one, looking through the forum..

Quite curious about this one myself.

To my knowledge, Permanent Residency is acquired automatically once an EEA citizen legally resides in the UK for 5 years. So if today is exactly 5 years after an EEA citizen arrived, (s)he can immediately consider him/herself permanent resident and apply for a Permanent Residency card. Now, the card could be issued up so six months after the application was sent.

For naturalisation purposes, does the Home Office considers 12 months after the status has been acquired (today) or 12 months from the day the card has been issued (18 months from now in my example)?

[kirifella]

ehm...anyone?

[Obie]

Unfortunately that is my reading of the new changes.

However i dont think it is justified.

[natienka]

Damn! I disappeared and tried to book a NCS meeting to do this for next week - and now it seems I might need to wait for PR card AND a year?

This is what I was advised over the phone again today... the lady told me I need to hold the PR card for a year before applying.

But the Booklet clearly states:
'But remember that, unless you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you should normally have held permanent resident status for 12 months before applying for naturalisation. This means that you may need to wait until you have been in the United Kingdom for 6 years before you can apply. You will need to provide evidence of 6 years continuous residence when you apply for your permanent residence card'

It doesn't say 'hold a permanent residence card for 12 months' but that you need to hold permanent residence STATUS.

In my opinion that clearly means that if I apply for PR card now and it arrives in 2 months confirming my residence earlier, I should still be able to apply immediately.

I might have cried a little bit this morning..

Question 2: do I need the PR card https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... dence-card (which seems to be for family of EEA nationals, not EEA nationals themselves) or a registration certificate https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _07-15.pdf - which seems to be for EEA nationals?

[Casa]

This appears to be typing error: "You will need to provide evidence of 6 years continuous residence when you apply for your permanent residence card'
Only 5 years continuous residence are required to qualify for PR.

[natienka]

Good eye. I wonder if it is a spelling mistake or not.

Also - my bad, it seems what I need is EEA PR which is 85 damn pages https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _07-15.pdf .

Christ! They really do not want us to become citizens, do they...

[Obie]

If this changes are to be lawful and not face the full wrath of the law, UKVI should have provision is place to to retrospective confirmation otherwise there is bound to be an enormous amount of legal challenges.

[bluebell01]

I am an EEA national, married to a British citizen - my 5 years of Treaty rights ended in 2010 but I have only just got my permanent residence certificate. Now I have discovered the changes re citizenship application from 12 November.
The booklet to Form AN says:
If married to British citizen: You must be free of immigration time restrictions on the date of application.
If not married to a British citizen: You must be free of immigration time restrictions on the date of application,and have been free of immigration time restrictions for the twelve month period before making the application.
I called the Nationality Help Desk today and was told: Married to British citizen makes no difference, I need to wait one year. I am confused.
They also questioned my newly acquired " Document certifying permanent residence" , saying that I would need a "residence card" instead. What is the difference??