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Need Help with the family life

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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tony143
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Need Help with the family life

Post by tony143 » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:24 am

hi i am refused asylum seeker in uk , I have a british partner and a british child ,My nationality is indian.
Home office in uk is not accepting my application in country they said i have to leave uk and go india and apply from there .
But my partner is not working if i do go to india i will be refused and the appeal process can take a year and a half.
I heard of family reunion through eu treaty if i move with my wife and child to ireland will that be easier
But the problem is that i havnt got a passport i heard it is free movement between two countries . Wiill i be stopped by authorities or is it safe to drive in to ireland. Any advice will be appreciated thanks

tony143
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Post by tony143 » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:38 pm

Anybody there please?
i need some help its urgent please

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:45 pm

Sorry, what you are proposing is illegal under immigration rules. You can be caught and thrown in jail for trying to cross without valid papers.
See this story...
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=20352

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:55 pm

Tony, There are a few problems with what you are proposing. Like archigabe mentioned, it's illegal. The free movement between the UK and Ireland only applies to citizens of those two countries. As an Indian citizen, you would need to have a visa BEFORE entering Ireland. The Irish embassy in the UK would more than likely not accept an application if you cannot show proof of legal residence in the UK. Furthermore, if you were able to secure a visa to enter Ireland, the subsequent application to remain would more than likely be denied since the Irish are currently requiring previous legal residence in another EU state.

John
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Post by John » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:15 pm

The Irish embassy in the UK would more than likely not accept an application if you cannot show proof of legal residence in the UK.
Absolutely, and the reverse as well. The British Embassy in Dublin is unlikely to accept an application from someone not legally in Ireland.

Tony, your plan is fatally flawed. You are highly liable to be committing an Irish criminal offence ... for absolutely no benefit at all.
John

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Post by archigabe » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:52 pm

Tony, you would have to take your chances going back to India and applying from there...Apply at the Indian embassy for temporary travel papers. If you absolutely want to return to the UK your spouse can sponsor you into Ireland by E.U spouse route by moving to Ireland, and moving back to the UK later using the 'Surinder Singh' route. This will take a lot of time and patience, or you can start a new life with your family in India.Sorry, there are no short cuts...you dug yourself into this hole when you violated UK immigration laws.

tony143
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Post by tony143 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:51 am

hi thanks for your kind replies
have a look on the link below and ask yourself the people in those pictures all have legal stay in uk . I dont think so

http://www.ncadc.org.uk/archives/filed% ... 7/don.html

Yes you said i voilated uk immigration laws but you dont know full story. So dont judge mate.I was a genuine asylum seeker but so kind of UK Govt immigration policy to cut the numbers down of asylum seekers.

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:02 am

Yes you said i voilated uk immigration laws but you dont know full story. So dont judge mate.I was a genuine asylum seeker but so kind of UK Govt immigration policy to cut the numbers down of asylum seekers.
I don't think his intent was to judge you, but, unfortunately, that is the stance of the Home Office. They way they will look at it is that your asylum application failed, and you should have left the UK. You chose not to. They really don't care why. It may suck, but it's the reality these days.

You could try applying to return to the UK from India, but there have been a few posters on here who have been refused entry clearance based on previously overstaying in the UK. So, it would be taking a big chance. As archigabe mentioned another option (If you don't want to move your family to India) is to have your partner move to Ireland (or any other EU country) and get a job there. Then you could apply from India to join her in that country, and after at least 6 months of your partner exercising an economic treaty right (working), you could then apply to return to the UK with her under the EU regulations. There's not really any simple solution.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:49 pm

You say you do not have a passport. Would it be possible for you go to the Indian embassy and apply for one? It will make your life a lot easier!

You can then legally move with your wife and family to another EU country. Your wife will need to work or be a student (she will be exercising treaty rights) unless she has a enough money to be considered self-sufficient. And you will be able to work as well.

tony143
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Post by tony143 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:33 pm

Thanks for all of you for such a quick replies
Directive/2004/38/EC
you said if i apply for a passport and can move to another eu country . Do i have to still go back to india or i can get things sorted here .

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:28 pm

I think getting a passport is a very important first step for you.

Would you be willing to move to another EU member state, to work and live? Think about where you might like to go. Ireland and the Netherlands are both nice because lots of people speak english, though it could be your wife and you also speak other languages.

Once you have a passport, you should apply for a visa to the country you want to move to. You will have to provide your passport and your wife's passport and your marriage certificate. I would urge you to also submit a copy of your child's birth certificate and passport.

You have a right of free movement in the EU as long as you will be travelling with your wife. The visa should be procesed quickly and will be issued for free. You may have to fight a little with them to get a visa, but it should be issued in the end. Post a message back here if you have any problems.

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Post by archigabe » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:14 pm

sorry to be the wet blanket, but the E.U country embassy that you are applying with might want to see proof of legal status in the U.K. Just something to keep in mind while applying for the E.U spouse visa.

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:24 pm

sorry to be the wet blanket, but the E.U country embassy that you are applying with might want to see proof of legal status in the U.K. Just something to keep in mind while applying for the E.U spouse visa.
I was thinking the same thing. I know there were a few a while back that couldn't get the UK embassy in Ireland to accept applications from those with pending EU1 applications because they couldn't prove legal status in Ireland. Irish embassies are the same. But, maybe an embassy of another member state would accept an application from within the UK, or, failing that, allowing the OP to enter with proof of marriage to the EU spouse and valid passport. It would probably take quite a bit of research on the OP's part to see how each country has implemented the EU directive.

As a personal opinion, I would definitely not recommend Ireland as the country of relocation though...

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Post by archigabe » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:30 pm

I second that...The Irish government is not very friendly to people with a questionable immigration status. Would the poster mind sharing his story a little bit, and how he had to seek asylum? We don't come across many cases from India who are seeking asylum on this forum...except of course, the famous Kumar Case in Ireland.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:01 pm

archigabe wrote:sorry to be the wet blanket, but the E.U country embassy that you are applying with might want to see proof of legal status in the U.K. Just something to keep in mind while applying for the E.U spouse visa.
This will likely not be a quick and easy application, but the law is on the applicant's side.

I suspect that with some patience you should be able to get a visa issued. You need to point out to them that the visa is issued solely on the basis of the relationship with the EU citizen and can only be refused on the basis of national security, (big) public policy or (big) public health.

It may be that member state repeatedly refuses to accept a visa application, or does not issue the visa in a reasonable time. In that case EU law (and their national transpositions in Ireland and in all other EU countries) and ECJ case law is again clearly on the side of the applicant.

If you do not have a required visa, you can not be turned back at the border so long as you can prove at the border that you have the right of freedom of movement as the family member of an EU citizen. This is explicitly spelled out in Directive 2004/38/EC and it’s transpositions into the law of each member state including the UK and Ireland. It is also from the original case law that drives what is in the Directive:
Case law has also been established by the Court of Justice in this connection. In its judgement of 25 July 2002 in Case C459-99 (MRAX) the Court ruled that, if Article 3(2) of Directive 68/360 and Article 3(2) of Directive 73/48 are not to be denied their full effect, ‘a visa must be issued without delay and as far as possible at the place if issue into national territory’ adding that, in view of the importance attached by the Community legislature to the protection of family life, ‘it is at any event disproportionate and therefore prohibited to send back a third country national married to a national of Member State where he is able to prove his identity and the conjugal ties and there is no evidence to establish that he represents a risk to public policy, public security or public health within the meaning of Article 10 of Directive 68/360 and Article 8 of Directive 73/148′.

tony143
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Post by tony143 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:51 pm

thanks for your replies.
Directive/2004/38/EC which country do you think i can easily get a visa and what visa do i have to apply.
thnks and happy new year to you all .

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:02 am

See if you can exchange notes with this person on the UK forum...he seems to be in a similar position,including losing his Indian Passport while in the UK.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... wesomeadil

Sashian
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Re: Need Help with the family life

Post by Sashian » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:54 am

Hello
I need advice regarding change of status as at the moment I have no legal status in Ireland I am from a NON EEA country. I came to Ireland in 2012 from UK i was studying there for one year. I am living with my husband who is on student probationary stamp 4 Visa. My first child was born on 10th of October 2014. I have already submitted my marriage certificate (from my Home Country) in Birth Registration office and in PPS office to get the PPS Number. What would you suggest if i apply for asylum and get married with my husband in Ireland and then apply for a Visa or how can i apply for the visa, what would be the right procedure to apply for the Visa. many thanks in advance.

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