ILR refused (tax issue, deception) - Re-applied and approved

[thestral01]

Hi Experts,
Good morning/afternoon !

I am a new member to this forum and need some expert guidance help with my case.

I am a director of a limited company and applied for ILR PEO in Sep which was refused because of HMRC check. I didnot file a SA for years 2010-11 and 2011-12 hence the dividends were not declared to HMRC. I received UTR number for Self assessment from HMRC in Sep 2012 and after that all my SAs are proper and case worker also confirmed the same.

I tried to reason the case worker that HMRC didnt send me a UTR number until sep 2012 - and my accountant had advised me that if HMRC hasnt sent me UTR I dont need to file SA. However he said I should have retrospectively done the prev years SA after I got my UTR number. my applciation was refused on the basis of providing false documentation/deception in my previous tier 1 extension in Nov 2011.

After the refusal, I have now filed 2011-12 SA online and there was only £1 tax due and no penalty from HMRC as HMRC sent me my UTR number only in 2012. I have paid the £1 tax due.

For 2010-11 however I had to send a paper application and after multiple follow-ups with HMRC they have now sent me a letter saying that they are not going to process this tax return for 2010-11 as it falls beyond the window of 4 years etc. I also got HMRC to send me a letter in writing, how much salary and dividends I have declared for this 2010-11 year in my return form. There was no due tax from my for fy2010-11 and no penalties were charged by HMRC too.

Now I am confused what route should I take ?

- Should I go for judicial review - as I have not submitted any false documentation during my tier 1 extension in 2011 based on which they refused my case- I did submit bank statements showing my earnings including dividends and accountant's letter showing all amounts (HMRC refusal letter too confirms the same). Also the year end accounts for 2011 were submitted to company house which is a govt entity.
It is very hard for me to come to terms with the fact that I was charged with deception, which in all my earnesty I know I haven't.

- Should I go for a fresh application - in which case what risk does it have not to have the HMRC records updated for FY 2010-11 dividends, even though I have a letter from HMRC now confirming why they cant process it and confirming the amounts I have declared .

Please help me !

[muraxza]

This is a quite a bad news that HMRC is not updating the 2010/11 record possible reason I can see after calculation you do not owe them any tax that’s why they are not bother to pull old records but this is really stressful news, however I have seen the cases where HMRC even has updated the more than 10 years old return because in that cases they were getting the money.

You probably would need a tax accountant who actually deals in personal tax law and then do a correspondence with them to sort this.

Secondly once deception has imposed it’s really hard to remove, even if you would go to the JR judge will possibly be taking their side unfortunately.

Is your company still active and did you paid a right corporation tax of 2010/11? If yes then did you show them that the only tax you had to pay your company CT and there was no liability on you regarding the SA side that’s why you didn’t bother?

This could be the only positive thing I can see in your case if you have paid the full CT.

[thestral01]

Thanks Blocked Username for your reply.

yes I have paid CT for 2010-11 in the following year, ie, in 2012. how does that link to self assessment dividend declaration?

but the company year end accounts which is filed with company house does show the dividends declared for the years concerned- and company house is a government entity. So how can they say deception when the company accounts as submitted to company house show the dividends?

Please help.

[tungha1979]

Hi Experts,
Good morning/afternoon !

I am a new member to this forum and need some expert guidance help with my case.

I am a director of a limited company and applied for ILR PEO in Sep which was refused because of HMRC check. I didnot file a SA for years 2010-11 and 2011-12 hence the dividends were not declared to HMRC. I received UTR number for Self assessment from HMRC in Sep 2012 and after that all my SAs are proper and case worker also confirmed the same.

I tried to reason the case worker that HMRC didnt send me a UTR number until sep 2012 - and my accountant had advised me that if HMRC hasnt sent me UTR I dont need to file SA. However he said I should have retrospectively done the prev years SA after I got my UTR number. my applciation was refused on the basis of providing false documentation/deception in my previous tier 1 extension in Nov 2011.

After the refusal, I have now filed 2011-12 SA online and there was only £1 tax due and no penalty from HMRC as HMRC sent me my UTR number only in 2012. I have paid the £1 tax due.

For 2010-11 however I had to send a paper application and after multiple follow-ups with HMRC they have now sent me a letter saying that they are not going to process this tax return for 2010-11 as it falls beyond the window of 4 years etc. I also got HMRC to send me a letter in writing, how much salary and dividends I have declared for this 2010-11 year in my return form. There was no due tax from my for fy2010-11 and no penalties were charged by HMRC too.

Now I am confused what route should I take ?

- Should I go for judicial review - as I have not submitted any false documentation during my tier 1 extension in 2011 based on which they refused my case- I did submit bank statements showing my earnings including dividends and accountant's letter showing all amounts (HMRC refusal letter too confirms the same). Also the year end accounts for 2011 were submitted to company house which is a govt entity.
It is very hard for me to come to terms with the fact that I was charged with deception, which in all my earnesty I know I haven't.

- Should I go for a fresh application - in which case what risk does it have not to have the HMRC records updated for FY 2010-11 dividends, even though I have a letter from HMRC now confirming why they cant process it and confirming the amounts I have declared .

Please help me !

Hi,
sorry to hear abt the refusal? Which PEO was this?

[muraxza]

A company can have many directors and the dividend are distributable to many stakeholders so declaring dividends and paying tax on doesn’t shows exactly what was your ratio on that distributable dividend. This information get reflects under SA where you shows your personal income through different sources either via self-employed, dividend etc. so this was a very important part which you didn’t submit and HO only consider SA and technically they are right because you can have a dividend from many companies and this all income channels of individuals are reflects under one pot which is SA.

Now in your case if you were the only director of the company so technically you had all this dividend and if you have paid right Corporation tax on the declared profit to HO so you would need a good lawyer to present this wisely in front of judge and explain them that this was the mistake because of lack of knowledge not a deception and try to prove your innocence.

When did you sent your 2010/11 returns to HMRC? And how long did it take to get a response from them? And how did you do online submission for 11/12 returns as this also impossible to do online

[thestral01]

Thanks Blocked Username , yes 2011-12 was done online by my accountant.
I sent paper SATR for 2010-11 in late september and followed up with HMRC almost on a daily basis. Originally they had said the turn around would be December though.

Anyone knows a good solicitor with proven experience in Judicial review/pre action protocol type cases ?

[tungha1979]

Thanks Blocked Username , yes 2011-12 was done online by my accountant.
I sent paper SATR for 2010-11 in late september and followed up with HMRC almost on a daily basis. Originally they had said the turn around would be December though.

Anyone knows a good solicitor with proven experience in Judicial review/pre action protocol type cases ?

It will be very hard to find a solicitor with proven experience in JR and similar cases. solicitors advertise 101 things on their website to get clients but hardly 10% solicitors have been able to win the JR for clients. by the way..which PEO was this?

[muraxza]

Thanks Blocked Username , yes 2011-12 was done online by my accountant.
I sent paper SATR for 2010-11 in late september and followed up with HMRC almost on a daily basis. Originally they had said the turn around would be December though.

Anyone knows a good solicitor with proven experience in Judicial review/pre action protocol type cases ?

I am really doubt if 2011/12 can be done online you really need to check this with your accountant you know, secondly 2010/11 you sent your returns in this September and you get your response that quick I really wondering if this would be a case as HMRC taking almost 5 to 6 months to reply any thing check this both with your accountant and get sort this bit before you present your case in front of judge.

[thestral01]

Thanks Blocked Username.

For 2011-12, I had called up HMRC and double checked the figures on their system, following which they have sent me SA302 in paper.
For 2010-11, HMRC did tell me it will be done only in December 2015 - and I myself have called them every other day and requested for speedy action and they finally they sent me letter saying they cant process it as its way beyond the deadline for 2010-11 tax return.

So I have checked these myself with HMRC rather than relying on accountant's words. Moreover I have documentary proof from HMRC on these.

If I decide to go for fresh application, should I take help of a solicitor? My initial application was by myself, but this time I am thinking may be I will go through a solicitor. Any of you had similar cases please letme know how it went for you? what are the chances of success?

Also any good solicitor anybody can suggest to go through for fresh application with this background ?

[thestral01]

it was at Cardiff

[thestral01]

Anybody with similar case as mine got ILR in re-application ? Or did JR ?

WOuld you suggest any solicitor to me?

Please help me out !

[thestral01]

Hi,
Please did anyone have similar case as mine - if yes did fresh application with corrected hmrc records help?

Please could you also suggest any good solicitor to go with?

[muraxza]

Hi,
Please did anyone have similar case as mine - if yes did fresh application with corrected hmrc records help?

Please could you also suggest any good solicitor to go with?

try to sort your HMRC issue and then apply again with cover letter to explain the reason hopefully you would be fine then,

can you also provide me your accountant detail please.

regards

[thestral01]

Please someone help me with a good solicitor..sincere request who has experience of dealing with refusal, reapplication type case like mine

[Jas2013]

Please someone help me with a good solicitor..sincere request who has experience of dealing with refusal, reapplication type case like mine

Hi "thestral01",

What is the progress on your application. Are you thinking to put a new application or filing a JR ?

[zullu41]

Hi thestral01
I also have a very similar issue. What is the progress in your case ?

[thestral01]

For the benefit of this group and other members having similar issues as mine, I would like to elaborate what happened to my case.

I didnt get a very favourable response from this board - partly because many people didnt have this experience I believe and hence I spoke to a number of solicitors and Barristers , spending quite a few pounds in the process.

Notable among the soclitors I spoke to was xxxxxxxxx about whom I had read elsewhere how good they were and some glowing reviews in their website too. It turned out to be quite a horrible experience for me - The guy was outright rude and seemed to care only for money. In his words, if I wanted to stay in the country and then I must come and meet him and for every meeting he will charge me. It was as if I had no option at all. Of course I didnt pursue with him as one basic thing what I felt he lacked was empathy when someone is going through such a situation. Few other solicitors did tell me the same thing but in a better and polished way - that success rate could be 50-50 in my case. Even the barristers were kind of the same opinion.

In all this mayhem, I came to know about xxxxxxxxxbased in Covent Garden, London. From the very first meeting, I knew this was the guy - gentle, caring, empathetic and he promised it will get done without any hasle , and he doesnt charge any fees for consultaion. They have a no win no fee policy. I felt so much better and confident after meeting him, I would very highly recommend him.Best thing about him, he is good friends with case workers in Croydon and could get a pre-view of my application even before I applied again. So as per his suggestion I made a fresh application again, for today's date.

ALso in this process I discovered how helpful HMRC people are - many in this forum doubted how I could submit my 11-12 tax return online and how could HMRC agree to do my 10-11 returns as well in such short span. But the truth remains they did - and its because I called them every other day and chased up. In the end, one guy from HMRC met me personally at Ealing to hand me over documents - a HMRC letter headed document giving manual calculation for my 10-11 return as they were unable to process it in their system. He even gave his personal mobile number to me and promised he will be available whole day on my application date to support Home office. Yes, you have to try to see how helpful HMRC can be.

Finally Chris prepared a covering letter for me and sorted out all documents etc for me and this morning I along with him went to Croydon Home office.
Without any issues whatsoever, my ILR was approved.
My suggestion to anyone in the same boat as me, dont lose hope and give it your best. And if you could, just get in touch with xxxxxxx - you will realise you are in safe hands.

Thanks everyone.

Moderator edit: company details removed due to libel laws + other details removed due to board rules on advertising

[bluecandi]

For the benefit of this group and other members having similar issues as mine, I would like to elaborate what happened to my case.

I didnt get a very favourable response from this board - partly because many people didnt have this experience I believe and hence I spoke to a number of solicitors and Barristers , spending quite a few pounds in the process.

Notable among the soclitors I spoke to was xxxxxxxxx about whom I had read elsewhere how good they were and some glowing reviews in their website too. It turned out to be quite a horrible experience for me - The guy was outright rude and seemed to care only for money. In his words, if I wanted to stay in the country and then I must come and meet him and for every meeting he will charge me. It was as if I had no option at all. Of course I didnt pursue with him as one basic thing what I felt he lacked was empathy when someone is going through such a situation. Few other solicitors did tell me the same thing but in a better and polished way - that success rate could be 50-50 in my case. Even the barristers were kind of the same opinion.

In all this mayhem, I came to know about xxxxxxxxxbased in Covent Garden, London. From the very first meeting, I knew this was the guy - gentle, caring, empathetic and he promised it will get done without any hasle , and he doesnt charge any fees for consultaion. They have a no win no fee policy. I felt so much better and confident after meeting him, I would very highly recommend him.Best thing about him, he is good friends with case workers in Croydon and could get a pre-view of my application even before I applied again. So as per his suggestion I made a fresh application again, for today's date.

ALso in this process I discovered how helpful HMRC people are - many in this forum doubted how I could submit my 11-12 tax return online and how could HMRC agree to do my 10-11 returns as well in such short span. But the truth remains they did - and its because I called them every other day and chased up. In the end, one guy from HMRC met me personally at Ealing to hand me over documents - a HMRC letter headed document giving manual calculation for my 10-11 return as they were unable to process it in their system. He even gave his personal mobile number to me and promised he will be available whole day on my application date to support Home office. Yes, you have to try to see how helpful HMRC can be.

Finally Chris prepared a covering letter for me and sorted out all documents etc for me and this morning I along with him went to Croydon Home office.
Without any issues whatsoever, my ILR was approved.
My suggestion to anyone in the same boat as me, dont lose hope and give it your best. And if you could, just get in touch with xxxxxxx - you will realise you are in safe hands.

Thanks everyone.

Moderator edit: company details removed due to libel laws + other details removed due to board rules on advertising

Congratulations your case is approved.

However I have massive doubts on this HMRC guy meeting you personally and handing over you the doucments. Please clear my doubts if you could answer the following:

1. How did he figured out the interest and penalties on tax returns? This is the job of tax inspector or technician to do.

I got calculations from HMRC verbally BUT Only my liability excluding interest and any penalties.

[qwertyhelp]

Hi i am applying for ilr soon ,can anyone help me ,my taxes weren't up to date ,i have sent for amendment but hmrc is taking time but i have paid all taxes assuming how much i owe them .i need apply before 03Jan .please help me

[thestral01]

Hi Bluecandi
You having massive doubts doesnt change my truth a shred !

I didnt owe any tax for 10-11 and HMRC did speak to me and when I explained them that they have to somehow update it in their system, showing my dividends for the year given my ILR date was on 16th, it was transferred to a senior member of staff. He spoke to me, called me back as well on my number on Monday keeping me posted on progress. I tried my best and requested them almost every other day, explaining the cascading effect this seemingly unimportant task for HMRC would have on my future in the country. And everytime I spoke to HMRC, they understood my situation and have given me all possible help.

When HMRC realised they cant update it on their system, he did advise me of an alternate route. He asked his colleague in Ealing HMRC office to get a manual calculation of my 10-11 tax returns prepared on HMRC letterhead and I went and met his colleague who handed over it to me personally. He also gave his mobile number just in case Home office wanted to speak. He also added a note on their system saying I didnt owe any tax for 10-11. He went on to add that he would be at Croydon HMRC office on 16th afternoon just in case I wanted to meet him.

Yes all this would sound unbelievable not to you, but most of you , but the fact is this is the truth and I have experienced it myself, still not believing all this happened. ANybody doubting it is free to do so, I am not here to prove a point rather just share my experience.

Its upto you to believe my words or ignore it, I just wanted to share my experience. And to your question I dont know the designation of the people I spoke to, they were from the NES team is all I know of.

[bluecandi]

When they have given you calculations why cant they update in their system as well?

[thestral01]

qwertyhelp,
My suggestion to you, email HMRC , they come back with reply usually in 1 day (email from HMRC web login). Explain them the situation you are in and limited time you have. I am 100% sure they would help you out to their best abilities.
Also you can call their customer care and speak to them regarding your issue, I know wait time is 45 minutes but you need to keep trying.
At least this is what I did and I am glad I did it that way as I could see the results.

[thestral01]

Thanks Bluecandi, I get your sarcasm and am as amused by it as you are by my experiences that I shared.

It doesnt probably matter to you what I did and experienced, best of luck to you and please dont waste your valuable time making fun of others.

Thanks!

[bluecandi]

Honestly mate no one believes your story. And now there is another flaw that you got the calculations but they cant update system. We all dealing with hmrc and some of us have got the calculations and system updated in couple days as well.

[thestral01]

Thanks mate. I wasted a lot of time of yours and others apparently (as you have taken the mantle of spokesman for everyone in the group voluntarily), let this discussion rest in peace for benefit of you and everyone else in the group.

I am happy with my "story" and doesnt matter the world (which is just you I hope!) believes it or not, fact is I got my case sorted and got ILR yesterday.

PS - I will not be replying to this thread anymore in case you or anyone else is up for a war of words/mockery.