EEA route Irish\British Citizen living in Northern Ireland

[BCarter]

My first post here so hi everyone!

I hope this question has not been done to death but I would like to ask if there is anyone who has renounced British citizenship so that they may bring their spouse in via the EEA route (in my case using my Irish passport).

I understand that the Good Friday agreement allows anyone from Northern Ireland to hold both passports (I've only held the Irish one since the agreement) and that we as citizens are allowed to call ourselves British or Irish as we feel. But from the research I've done it seems that renunciation is the only way for the EEA application to be accepted.

So I have a few questions for anyone who may have been in my position before.

1) How long did the renunciation take? Did you have any trouble with processing the application?
2) Do I need proof of my relationship with my spouse for the EEA application - Would a marriage certificate suffice?
3) Do you lose any rights by giving up your British citizenship? (I know Irish citizens are considered 'settled' in the UK but do not have a right to vote in the general election but I am unsure if anything else is lost)


Lastly thank you to anyone who answers, it is really appreciated!

[chaoclive]

My first post here so hi everyone!

I hope this question has not been done to death but I would like to ask if there is anyone who has renounced British citizenship so that they may bring their spouse in via the EEA route (in my case using my Irish passport). THERE ARE QUITE A FEW THREADS ABOUT THIS NOW.

I understand that the Good Friday agreement allows anyone from Northern Ireland to hold both passports (I've only held the Irish one since the agreement) and that we as citizens are allowed to call ourselves British or Irish as we feel. But from the research I've done it seems that renunciation is the only way for the EEA application to be accepted. NOT EXACTLY RIGHT. THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT DIDN'T ALTER THE CITIZENSHIP LAWS OF EITHER THE UK NOR IRELAND, THEREFORE IT DOESN'T GIVE EVERYONE BORN IN NORTHERN IRELAND TO HOLD WHICHEVER PASSPORT THEY LIKE; THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER CONDITIONS BUT, YOU'RE GENERALLY RIGHT AS MOST PEOPLE BORN IN NI WILL BE BORN TO A PARENT WHO IS EITHER A BRITISH OR IRISH CITIZEN, THEREFORE GIVING THEM CITIZENSHIP OF BOTH COUNTRIES (AS MYSELF). SEE HERE FOR A FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST THAT I HAVE PUT IN TO THE HOME OFFICE (SUBSEQUENTLY ANSWERED BY THE NORTHERN IRELAND OFFICE): https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ment-45902. OPEN THE LINK TO THE DOCUMENT DATED 2/12/13. THIS WILL EXPLAIN THE SITUATION. AS YOU HAVE ALREADY NOTED ABOVE, RENUNCIATION OF BRITISH CITIZENSHIP WILL DO THE TRICK. I HAVE DONE THIS MYSELF SO I DO KNOW QUITE A BIT ABOUT THE RENUNCIATION PROCESS. MY CHINESE CIVIL PARTNER IS NOW IN THE UK (BELFAST ACTUALLY). HE ENTERED ON AN EEA FAMILY PERMIT AND NOW HAS A RESIDENCE CARD ISSUED IN LINE WITH THE EEA REGULATIONS.

So I have a few questions for anyone who may have been in my position before.

1) How long did the renunciation take? Did you have any trouble with processing the application? MY RENUNCIATION TOOK ABOUT 2.5 MONTHS. SEE HERE FOR MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE PROCESS: http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 85291.html. HERE IS THE RENUNCIATION PROCESS: https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality; READ THE FORM AND THE GUIDE. IT'S QUITE STRAIGHTFORWARD. SOMEONE MENTIONED TO ME IN THE PAST THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO GET A GP TO SIGN THE FORM AS THIS WOULD MEAN THAT THE HOME OFFICE WOULD LESS REASON TO SAY THAT SOMEONE TRYING TO RENOUNCE WAS NOT OF SOUND MIND (ON OF THE REQUIREMENTS).
2) Do I need proof of my relationship with my spouse for the EEA application - Would a marriage certificate suffice? YES, WE JUST PROVIDED OUR CIVIL PARTNERSHIP CERT. DIDN'T PROVIDE ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE EEA FAMILY PERMIT APPLICATION. YOU WILL NEED TO PROVIDE MORE DOCUMENTS FOR THE RESIDENCE CARD APPLICATION AFTER HE/SHE IS IN THE UK.
3) Do you lose any rights by giving up your British citizenship? (I know Irish citizens are considered 'settled' in the UK but do not have a right to vote in the general election but I am unsure if anything else is lost) AGAIN, SLIGHTLY INCORRECT. AT PRESENT IRISH CITIZENS RESIDENT IN THE UK ARE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE IN THE UK GENERAL ELECTION: http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/f ... l-election. I DID SO LAST MONTH (NOT THAT IT MADE A DIFFERENCE HAHA). THIS WOULD ONLY CHANGE IF UK LAW CHANGED IN THE FUTURE. BRITISH CITIZENS RESIDENT IN IRELAND CAN ALSO VOTE IN THE IRISH GENERAL ELECTIONS. THERE HAS BEEN NO CHANGE IN MY STATUS HERE IN NI AT ALL AFTER HAVING RENOUNCED BRITISH CITIZENSHIP. MY NATIONAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS STILL STAND, MY BANK ACCOUNTS (INCLUDING ISAs) ARE THE SAME, MY DRIVING LICENSE IS THE SAME, I STILL GET HEALTHCARE, I STILL CAN VOTE ETC ETC. THERE HAVE BEEN NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER FOR ME.


Lastly thank you to anyone who answers, it is really appreciated!

My answers in caps above.

Just to let you know: you DO have other options:
-Undertake the Surinder Singh route (work in another EEA country, NOT one of which you are a citizen and then return to NI/UK. E.g. you could go to work in France/Germany for just over 3 months and then apply for an EEA family permit for your spouse and come back. This obviously takes a bit of time.

You can also apply for a spouse visa under the UK laws: https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk. Note the financial requirements etc. must be fulfilled.

[BCarter]

Thank you so much for replying! I seen your name on some other posts and was hoping you would reply to my post.

I am glad your situation worked out and I can get some of your knowledge and experience!

Unfortunately the UK way is not really viable to me as I do not currently meet the financial requirements and I cannot move to another country as I need to stick with my current job and get all the experience I can.

For point number 2) When applying for the residence card what other documents are required as proof of a real relationship?

Also when did you apply for the residence visa? As soon as your other half came across or?

Thank you again for all your help.

[chaoclive]

Thank you so much for replying! I seen your name on some other posts and was hoping you would reply to my post.

I am glad your situation worked out and I can get some of your knowledge and experience!

Unfortunately the UK way is not really viable to me as I do not currently meet the financial requirements and I cannot move to another country as I need to stick with my current job and get all the experience I can. THEN RENUNCIATION IS PROBABLY THE ONLY OPTION AT PRESENT. IT DOES WORK BUT I'D CONSIDER MOVING QUICKLY. IF THE UK REALLY LEAVES THE EU IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, THIS WOULD NO LONGER BE AN OPTION.

For point number 2) When applying for the residence card what other documents are required as proof of a real relationship? WE DIDN'T SUPPLY ANYTHING OTHER THAN OUR CIVIL PARTNERSHIP CERT AS PROOF OF 'REAL RELATIONSHIP' AS THEY HAD ALREADY BELIEVED US AT THE EEA FAMILY PERMIT STAGE. WE DID HOWEVER PROVIDE A LOT OF INFO ABOUT MY CIVIL PARTNER'S RESIDENCE IN THE UK, E.G. COPY OF OUR TENANCY IN BOTH NAMES/TV LICENSE IN HIS NAME/BANK ACCOUNT STATEMENT IN HIS NAME/COPY OF HIS MEDICAL CARD/COPY OF HIS PROVISIONAL DRIVING LICENSE SHOWING OUR ADDRESS (THINK THAT WAS ALL). WE ALSO PROVIDED SOME OF MY PAYSLIPS & A LETTER FROM MY EMPLOYER. CONSIDER OPENING A CASHMINDER BASIC BANK ACCOUNT AT THE COOPERATIVE BANK USING HIS TV LICENSE. THIS WORKED FOR US AND THAT BANK STATEMENT (WE CHANGED IT FROM QUARTERLY STATEMENTS TO MONTHLY ONES) THEN HELPED HIM TO GET A BANK ACCOUNT AT ULSTER BANK, TO APPLY FOR HIS DRIVING LICENSE ETC.

Also when did you apply for the residence visa? As soon as your other half came across or? NOT AS SOON AS. HE ENTERED IN AUGUST AND WE APPLIED AT THE START OF OCTOBER. BY THIS TIME, HE HAD ALL THE DOCUMENTS ABOVE.

Thank you again for all your help.

[BCarter]

Hi again,

Would using a parent as a co-signer on the renunciation form be allowed? I could try and get a doctor but I barely know any of them.

Thanks again!

[chaoclive]

Hi again,

Would using a parent as a co-signer on the renunciation form be allowed? I could try and get a doctor but I barely know any of them.

Thanks again!

I got a friend to sign and nothing happened. If your parent has a different surname it probably wouldn't look very strange. Don't think it' matters too much.

[BCarter]

Hi, thanks again for your answers.

Did you post your Irish passport when renouncing your British citizenship or was another document used in place?

Thanks

[chaoclive]

Hi, thanks again for your answers.

Did you post your Irish passport when renouncing your British citizenship or was another document used in place?

Thanks

My situation may have been a little weird. I didn't post my British passport (had lost it) nor my Irish passport. I provided a copy of my Irish passport (which had been certified by the Irish Embassy in Beijing), my birth certificate (proving I was born on the island of Ireland at a time when Irish citizenship was automatic), as well as a copy of this link: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... scent.html. I highlighted A in the table half way down the page. Of course, I added my renunciation application form too.

The reason why I didn't send my Irish passport was because I had to return to work in China and my visa was on my Irish passport. I provided a copy of my Chinese visa in my Irish passport, just to prove why I could not provide my passport.

I'm not sure if my situation is unique but it did work.

[BCarter]

Hi there, hope everything is well.

I'm currently waiting for my renounciation to come back (nearly been three months) and I have a few more questions if you dont mind me troubling you?

1) My spouse is the one who has to make the application?

2) When applying for the EEA spouse 6 month visa do you have to send any other proof of the relationship other than the marriage cert?

3) Does the EEA spouse visa take long to process?

4) Do you have to have the flights prebooked before applying for the visa? (Concerned incase we get refused)

Thank you for all your help so far!

[chaoclive]

Hi there, hope everything is well.

I'm currently waiting for my renounciation to come back (nearly been three months) and I have a few more questions if you dont mind me troubling you?

1) My spouse is the one who has to make the application? OF COURSE. YOU DON'T NEED A VISA. HOWEVER, YOU CAN FILL IN THE FORM ETC. THEN SHE WILL JUST TAKE THE PRINTED APPLICATION TO THE EMBASSY.

2) When applying for the EEA spouse 6 month visa do you have to send any other proof of the relationship other than the marriage cert? WE SENT NOTHING MORE THAN OUR CIVIL PARTNERSHIP CERT.

3) Does the EEA spouse visa take long to process? IT'S NOT CALLED AN EEA SPOUSE VISA. IT'S CALLED AN EEA FAMILY PERMIT. OURS TOOK ABOUT 10 DAYS AS FAR AS I REMEMBER.

4) Do you have to have the flights prebooked before applying for the visa? (Concerned incase we get refused) WE DIDN'T BOOK FLIGHTS BEFOREHAND.

Thank you for all your help so far!

[BCarter]

Hi Chaoclive,

My renounciation turned up! I was wondering if you or anyone else can help me..

Next step is the EEA visa of which my spouse applies for (which I can fill in and she prints)

In order for her to be able to process anything do I have to send original copies of all documents, for example my renounciation letter, passport, payslips etc? I am concerned as my wife is in the Philippines and posting these items and losing them would be a nightmare.

I understand I can use a photocopied version of passport but it has to be 'authenticated'? (Not sure how to do this either) Also are there any set times by which she must be issued or denied the visa? I'm sure I read somewhere its eu law to have it ready by a certain time.

Any other tips, suggestions, pitfalls etc would be appreciated.

Thank you for everything so far!

[chaoclive]

Hi Chaoclive,

My renounciation turned up! I was wondering if you or anyone else can help me..

Next step is the EEA visa of which my spouse applies for (which I can fill in and she prints)

In order for her to be able to process anything do I have to send original copies of all documents, for example my renounciation letter, passport, payslips etc? I am concerned as my wife is in the Philippines and posting these items and losing them would be a nightmare.

I understand I can use a photocopied version of passport but it has to be 'authenticated'? (Not sure how to do this either) Also are there any set times by which she must be issued or denied the visa? I'm sure I read somewhere its eu law to have it ready by a certain time.

Any other tips, suggestions, pitfalls etc would be appreciated.

Thank you for everything so far!

Congrats!

We actually applied whilst I was still in China so I gave the original passport and renunciation letter (I got it sent back to China). I'm sure that they will want to see your original passport but a certified copy should also be possible.

Re: passport copy-I'm really not sure what else you could do apart from contacting the UK Embassy in the Philippines to ask if they would accept a copy of the passport which has been certified. I'm also not 100% sure who would be able to verify the passport in Northern Ireland. I guess you could think about contacting An Garda Siochana in ROI to see if they might be able to do this: http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=3430&Lang=1. I would also mention this to the UK Embassy in the Philippines to see what type of certification they would accept.

I would send the original renunciation letter too but retain a copy for yourself. You can find this information out again in the future by asking the Home Office to provide you with all details held about yourself from their databases (this is called a Subject Access Request (SAR)).

As you probably know, passports shouldn't be sent across international borders but you might want to consider applying for an Irish passport card straight away, not that you have your passport back. You can do this here: by downloading an app to your smart phone. See here: https://passportcard.dfa.ie. That way, you could send a certified copy of your actual passport along with the passport card in a separate postage envelope. That would make it more likely that your wife would get everything she needs. Just remember: I'm sure that sending a passport card is also frowned upon (don't know if it's illegal) but it's less likely to be picked up on. You definitely want to check out the net to see how legal this might be. I'm not encouraging you to break the law; I'm just pointing out possible options. The final decision/action will come from you yourself.

As for the payslips: were these emailed to you or are they still old-fashioned paper payslips? If emailed (as mine were) you can just send them and have your wife print them out. Also, send a copy of your P60 etc just to try to back things up a bit. You should be able to get a letter from HR stating your start date etc. Send that letter to your wife too.

Re: timescales. I can't remember exactly how long they have to make a decision but it should be made on an accelerated basis. I seem to recall that it should take no more than 3 weeks (but I might be wrong here).

Check out visa processing times here: https://visa-processingtimes.homeoffice.gov.uk.

Our process went quite smoothly and we got the visa in just over a week (I think!). We didn't provide any financial documents. For the details, you might want to refer to some of my older posts.

Make sure you keep copies of everything that you are posting!

[BCarter]

Hi Chaoclive,

My renounciation turned up! I was wondering if you or anyone else can help me..

Next step is the EEA visa of which my spouse applies for (which I can fill in and she prints)

In order for her to be able to process anything do I have to send original copies of all documents, for example my renounciation letter, passport, payslips etc? I am concerned as my wife is in the Philippines and posting these items and losing them would be a nightmare.

I understand I can use a photocopied version of passport but it has to be 'authenticated'? (Not sure how to do this either) Also are there any set times by which she must be issued or denied the visa? I'm sure I read somewhere its eu law to have it ready by a certain time.

Any other tips, suggestions, pitfalls etc would be appreciated.

Thank you for everything so far!

Congrats!

We actually applied whilst I was still in China so I gave the original passport and renunciation letter (I got it sent back to China). I'm sure that they will want to see your original passport but a certified copy should also be possible.

Re: passport copy-I'm really not sure what else you could do apart from contacting the UK Embassy in the Philippines to ask if they would accept a copy of the passport which has been certified. I'm also not 100% sure who would be able to verify the passport in Northern Ireland. I guess you could think about contacting An Garda Siochana in ROI to see if they might be able to do this: http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=3430&Lang=1. I would also mention this to the UK Embassy in the Philippines to see what type of certification they would accept.

I would send the original renunciation letter too but retain a copy for yourself. You can find this information out again in the future by asking the Home Office to provide you with all details held about yourself from their databases (this is called a Subject Access Request (SAR)).

As you probably know, passports shouldn't be sent across international borders but you might want to consider applying for an Irish passport card straight away, not that you have your passport back. You can do this here: by downloading an app to your smart phone. See here: https://passportcard.dfa.ie. That way, you could send a certified copy of your actual passport along with the passport card in a separate postage envelope. That would make it more likely that your wife would get everything she needs. Just remember: I'm sure that sending a passport card is also frowned upon (don't know if it's illegal) but it's less likely to be picked up on. You definitely want to check out the net to see how legal this might be. I'm not encouraging you to break the law; I'm just pointing out possible options. The final decision/action will come from you yourself.

As for the payslips: were these emailed to you or are they still old-fashioned paper payslips? If emailed (as mine were) you can just send them and have your wife print them out. Also, send a copy of your P60 etc just to try to back things up a bit. You should be able to get a letter from HR stating your start date etc. Send that letter to your wife too.

Re: timescales. I can't remember exactly how long they have to make a decision but it should be made on an accelerated basis. I seem to recall that it should take no more than 3 weeks (but I might be wrong here).

Check out visa processing times here: https://visa-processingtimes.homeoffice.gov.uk.

Our process went quite smoothly and we got the visa in just over a week (I think!). We didn't provide any financial documents. For the details, you might want to refer to some of my older posts.

Make sure you keep copies of everything that you are posting!

Thank you for your continued support and all of the useful information you provide! I found out on the VisaUK site that I can apply on behalf of my wife, i'm not sure what this means in terms of documents etc but I will continue to work through this and try to figure it out..

In the mean time I will get the letter from work tomorrow, my payslips and p60 are electronic so I can email, I will make copies of the renounciation and try to work out where to get a passport authenticated (paying I do not have to travel down south to do this but if thats what it takes!) Great idea about the passport card, I will see how long they take to process. Thanks again! it is great to have help with this.

[chaoclive]

Thank you for your continued support and all of the useful information you provide! I found out on the VisaUK site that I can apply on behalf of my wife, i'm not sure what this means in terms of documents etc but I will continue to work through this and try to figure it out..

In the mean time I will get the letter from work tomorrow, my payslips and p60 are electronic so I can email, I will make copies of the renounciation and try to work out where to get a passport authenticated (paying I do not have to travel down south to do this but if thats what it takes!) Great idea about the passport card, I will see how long they take to process. Thanks again! it is great to have help with this.

no matter what, she is going to have to go to the embassy to submit the documents. i guess what the website means is that you will be able to fill in the form and then have your wife print it and take it to the embassy. i take it you are not planning to visit the Philippines any time before the application?

great news about the paylips/p60.

i think the passport card is now taking about 10 working days. mine took a bit longer (about 20 days) but that was because i applied at the start when the card was just launched.

[BCarter]

Thank you for your continued support and all of the useful information you provide! I found out on the VisaUK site that I can apply on behalf of my wife, i'm not sure what this means in terms of documents etc but I will continue to work through this and try to figure it out..

In the mean time I will get the letter from work tomorrow, my payslips and p60 are electronic so I can email, I will make copies of the renounciation and try to work out where to get a passport authenticated (paying I do not have to travel down south to do this but if thats what it takes!) Great idea about the passport card, I will see how long they take to process. Thanks again! it is great to have help with this.

no matter what, she is going to have to go to the embassy to submit the documents. i guess what the website means is that you will be able to fill in the form and then have your wife print it and take it to the embassy. i take it you are not planning to visit the Philippines any time before the application?

great news about the paylips/p60.

i think the passport card is now taking about 10 working days. mine took a bit longer (about 20 days) but that was because i applied at the start when the card was just launched.

Yes, likely so.

The following website https://www.gov.uk/certifying-a-document states

'Who can certify a document

To certify documents, ask a professional person or someone well-respected in your community (‘of good standing’) like a:

bank or building society official
councillor
minister of religion
dentist
chartered accountant
solicitor or notary
teacher or lecturer

The person you ask shouldn’t be:

related to you
living at the same address
in a relationship with you

Check with the organisation that needs the certified copy - they may have specific rules for who can certify a document.
How to certify a document

Take the photocopied document and the original and ask the person to certify the copy by:

writing ‘Certified to be a true copy of the original seen by me’ on the document
signing and dating it
printing their name under the signature
adding their occupation, address and telephone number

The person certifying the document may charge you a fee.'

I can get a solicitor to sign this, but I will contact someone and check if its okay.. i'm guessing this will have to be posted as a scan of a copy is probably not a great idea lol. I am just so eager to get this posted!

[BCarter]

Hi,

A few more questions,

The form asks for purpose of visit - I assume this is settlement or 'to live with my husband'

Form also asks for how long she intends to stay and when she intends to leave.. assume I would put N/A?

It asks for travel dates etc too, do these have to be exact? (I was hoping to book flights after)

Also last thing, I start a new job next monday, can I send in my old job stuff as proof (as it only asks for 3 months proof? or do I have to nag my new job for a letter too?)

Thanks again!

[chaoclive]

worth a try!
definitely drop them a line in the embassy to see what they say.

Purpose: we wrote something like: 'joining my irish citizen civil partner who will move to the UK'
Length: N/A will work; i might have written 'undecided' but can't remember
The dates don't really matter; the FP will be valid for a while so you can book flights after; that's not a problem. Our dates changed.

Re: job: i think that sending the old job stuff won't be a problem BUT i would make it clear on the form that you will now be with a new employer (write it into the cover letter) and provide the new employer's details; just in case they contact them to check! You could send a copy of your new contract if you have it at the moment.

[BCarter]

worth a try!
definitely drop them a line in the embassy to see what they say.

Purpose: we wrote something like: 'joining my irish citizen civil partner who will move to the UK'
Length: N/A will work; i might have written 'undecided' but can't remember
The dates don't really matter; the FP will be valid for a while so you can book flights after; that's not a problem. Our dates changed.

Re: job: i think that sending the old job stuff won't be a problem BUT i would make it clear on the form that you will now be with a new employer (write it into the cover letter) and provide the new employer's details; just in case they contact them to check! You could send a copy of your new contract if you have it at the moment.

Thank you once again! You have been great I am currently writing letters etc as part of the proof and in my cover letter I have mentioned that I an Irish citizen and have always declared myself as one and I renounced my British citizen to cement that fact and assert the citizenship which I identify most with

Do you think that sounds suitable? I mean I could just put in the renounciation cert and not mention it but I feel that I need to point it out so that they dont try to deny my wifes right to join me