EEA (PR) qualifying period: initially held Tier 5/FLR(M)

[Daseca]

Hi

I'm a Hungarian citizen by way of my grandfather, and therefore my father being Hungarian. My understanding is that under Hungary's jus sanguinis nationality law, this was passed on to me through birth and is definitely not a case of naturalisation or 'granting' of citizenship. So I've always been a citizen, just without the certificate to evidence it.

I moved to the UK in 2013 but due to the time it was going to take for Hungary to process my 'verification of Hungarian citizenship' application, I entered initially with my New Zealand passport and a Tier 5 YMV visa, and more recently obtained FLR(M) through my unmarried partner.

Hungary finally issued my citizenship certificate in October 2015 and I'm looking at PR/British citizenship options given the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

In my mind, having inherited Hungarian citizenship under jus sanguinis from birth, I began exercising treaty rights in 2013. However, I'm mindful it would be plain to see in Home Office records that I spent 2013/2014/most of 2015 holding leave to remain as a NZ citizen too.

Has anyone got any thoughts if they're likely to argue that the 5 year period begins from 2015, not 2013?

I'm hoping that the argument that my citizenship is by birth and not naturalisation, and that holding Tier 5/FLR(M) was simply an administrative necessity due to the fact it took Hungary ~18 months to 'verify' my citizenship is fairly strong.

Cheers

[noajthan]

Hi

I'm a Hungarian citizen by way of my grandfather, and therefore my father being Hungarian. My understanding is that under Hungary's jus sanguinis nationality law, this was passed on to me through birth and is definitely not a case of naturalisation or 'granting' of citizenship. So I've always been a citizen, just without the certificate to evidence it.

I moved to the UK in 2013 but due to the time it was going to take for Hungary to process my 'verification of Hungarian citizenship' application, I entered initially with my New Zealand passport and a Tier 5 YMV visa, and more recently obtained FLR(M) through my unmarried partner.

Hungary finally issued my citizenship certificate in October 2015 and I'm looking at PR/British citizenship options given the uncertainty surrounding Brexit.

In my mind, having inherited Hungarian citizenship under jus sanguinis from birth, I began exercising treaty rights in 2013. However, I'm mindful it would be plain to see in Home Office records that I spent 2013/2014/most of 2015 holding leave to remain as a NZ citizen too.

Has anyone got any thoughts if they're likely to argue that the 5 year period begins from 2015, not 2013?

I'm hoping that the argument that my citizenship is by birth and not naturalisation, and that holding Tier 5/FLR(M) was simply an administrative necessity due to the fact it took Hungary ~18 months to 'verify' my citizenship is fairly strong.

Cheers

Interesting question.

This HO guidance on qualified persons may give you a steer:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

See page 47+

All applicants claiming to be a qualified person must provide evidence of their nationality by providing either:

• a valid passport from an EEA state;
  a national identity (ID) card from an EEA state;

The passport or ID card must show the applicant has been an EEA national for the whole of the
5 continuous years.

They must also provide evidence to show they have been resident in the UK for the same 5 continuous years.

You obviously won't have a 5 year old Hungarian passport; do you have a Hungarian ID card?

In the absence of passport/ID card, does the Hungarian citizenship certificate contain any dates or statements that would help your case?

[Daseca]

Thanks for the reply - apologies for my late response!

I have a 'lakcímkártya' or residential address card, but unfortunately not a 'national ID' photo card.

The wording 'The passport or ID card must show the applicant has been an EEA national for the whole of the
5 continuous years' is a bit concerning. What if your passport & and ID card ar lost/stolen four years into living in the UK?

I doubt most/any passports and ID cards confirm, beyond the issue date, when the holder first held their citizenship.

I will check but I don't think the citizenship certificate has any particularly helpful statements or dates. I do have a Hungarian birth certificate too though just to note.

Do you know if that para in question ties into any specific Regs?

Maybe I'll need to resort to providing translated extracts from the relevant Hungarian citizenship law. Various English references on the web confirm that a person acquires Hungarian citizenship at birth if at least one parent is a Hungarian citizen - the place of birth is irrelevant. If I get really stuck I could ask for a confirmation letter from the Citizenship Directorate in Budapest.

Really appreciate the steer anyway - just wondering what people do when they lost their passport/ID card given how strict the wording seems to be!

[Daseca]

I know this is a bit cheeky but I thought I'd bump this back up just in case anyone didn't see this the first time round and has any thoughts.

[noajthan]

I know this is a bit cheeky but I thought I'd bump this back up just in case anyone didn't see this the first time round and has any thoughts.

The combination of birth certificate plus extracts of Hungarian law &/or some letter from your embassy or appropriate government ministry may help.
Also that ID card may help, especially if it has dates on it.

Can you get hold of parents' birth certificates, copies of passports too?

Taken all together & along with your citizenship certificate that may be enough to show you are & always have been Hungarian.

Sok szerencsét!

[Daseca]

Thanks for the reply - apologies the delay on my part!

Unfortunately the ID card doesn't have any pre-2015 dates on it. Yes I can definitely provide copies of mine and my father's NZ birth certificates (he never actually went through t'he process of registering his own Hungarian citizenship). I don't have an official copy of my grandfather's birth in Budapest - the Hungarian immigration office confirmed that themselves - however the original handwritten birth registry books from all Hungarian districts are all scanned online and publicly accessible, so I do have this. I'm sure I could request an 'official' copy of his birth extract if need be.

Hopefully I should be able to 'prove' the link from myself to my grandfather (in much the same way I obtained citizenship!) and that's how Hungarian nationality law operates.

[Richard W]

Unfortunately the ID card doesn't have any pre-2015 dates on it. Yes I can definitely provide copies of mine and my father's NZ birth certificates (he never actually went through t'he process of registering his own Hungarian citizenship).

For the 'extended right of residence', it is enough to be exercising treaty rights. You do not have to hold an EEA passport or ID card; by the letter of the law, it is enough to hold EEA nationality. The question is, rather, whether you are likely to have to establish your rights in court.