Comprehensive Sickness insurance

[DaisyChloe]

Forgot to mention, could you please clarify to me if I should have held a Residence Card before applying with my mom as my sponsor or this Residence Card is required for those who are non-EU? i am an EU national. i was told i never needed a Residence card because that does not stop me from applying for a Permanent Residence card.. is that right? i do not have Residence card even though in the application form for some reason there is a question asking whether i hold any of specified doc including a Residence Card

[noajthan]

Forgot to mention, could you please clarify to me if I should have held a Residence Card before applying with my mom as my sponsor or this Residence Card is required for those who are non-EU? i am an EU national. i was told i never needed a Residence card because that does not stop me from applying for a Permanent Residence card.. is that right? i do not have Residence card even though in the application form for some reason there is a question asking whether i hold any of specified doc including a Residence Card

An RC (or 'registration certificate' for EEA citizens) might have helped a bit (especially if you had had one as a student) but is not compulsory.

Lack of RC does not stop you applying for a PR card.
So don't worry about that.

The PR form is generic & covers all sorts of people with all different circumstances so several questions (& even some sections) will not apply to you.

In fact legally you don't even have to use 'that' form - but that's another story.

[noajthan]

Hmmm does it matter that my mom only got her PR in 2013-2014?

She did not have it when i was under 21 ...

Also what evidence could i send as my proof for 5 years in the uk? Bank statements?

No that doesn't matter.

Mom can still be your sponsor even without PR (as long as she was & is still exercising treaty rights - eg working).
But the fact she has a PR card should help & so you can answer the question to declare she has a confirmation of PR card.

Proof of residency.
if your passport is stamped that will help; (I know it may not be stamped as you enter UK as you're from EEA).

Otherwise you can use:

• letters from educational establishments confirming you were enrolled/attending as a student;
  letters from employers confirming employment;
  &/or tax documents (P60s);

[DaisyChloe]

Oh if i show that i have been enrolled in a course full time , they may ask me CSI ! or that does not apply?! i am worried if i mention that i have been a student i will be asked for CSI ! I Do have all the formal letter from my university confirming that i was studying full time. Maybe i should not mention that.

Also, i hope that HO will not reject my application if they will see that no i have been working full time since feb and may can support myself but my mom can still always support me even if I'm old enough. I do not have any financial evidence that my mom has been supporting me as it was by way of cash always, does that counts? or it is enough that i am daughter of someone who works full time. I will ask my mom to write a letter stating that she has been supporting me with cash ever since i moved to the uk... would that help as an evidence?

[noajthan]

Oh if i show that i have been enrolled in a course full time , they may ask me CSI ! or that does not apply?! i am worried if i mention that i have been a student i will be asked for CSI ! I Do have all the formal letter from my university confirming that i was studying full time. Maybe i should not mention that.

Also, i hope that HO will not reject my application if they will see that no i have been working full time since feb and may can support myself but my mom can still always support me even if I'm old enough. I do not have any financial evidence that my mom has been supporting me as it was by way of cash always, does that counts? or it is enough that i am daughter of someone who works full time. I will ask my mom to write a letter stating that she has been supporting me with cash ever since i moved to the uk... would that help as an evidence?

No, because by applying as the dependent family member it does not matter what you have done for your 5 years residency; it is the economic activity of sponsor that counts.

(For example, you could have spent all your time watching daytime TV & scoffing cocoa pops & pizza instead of studying - it does not matter).

As mom was a worker there is no need for you to have held CSI.
That is the point of attempting to prove your PR by this means.

Do not go down the road of suppressing evidence.
For one thing you have to sign the Declaration on the form to confirm all is true & complete.

Note: There are 2 aspects to proving you have PR: proof of residency & proof of exercising treaty rights.

If you have a sponsor then you only have to prove residency.
So you are not incriminating yourself by saying you were a student.

It's quite alright to submit proof you were resident in UK & studying because you are not applying in the category of a qualified person who is a student.

Until age 21 it would be enough that you are daughter of EEA national working in UK.
A supporting letter from mother may help but details of financial support would be better. Such as bank statements.

Remember you will always have to supply adequate documentary evidence to support your application.
This is the case whether you apply with a sponsor or in your right - either now or later (in 2017).

btw - when did you actually arrive in UK?
Was it earlier than 2009?

If you and mother were in UK at the same time when you were a school student, then, as long as mom was working, that period would count towards your PR too.
(Don't worry about living together; under EU rules not even married couples have to be co-habiting).

[DaisyChloe]

oh thats very clear described. Thank you. How about the fact that my mom was giving me cash and therefore not much of financial evidence to give to HO? The fact that my mom has a regular income is sufficient or it has to be proved that she was sending me money, she did support me financially but not by way of bank transfers but money in hand.

[noajthan]

oh thats very clear described. Thank you. How about the fact that my mom was giving me cash and therefore not much of financial evidence to give to HO? The fact that my mom has a regular income is sufficient or it has to be proved that she was sending me money, she did support me financially but not by way of bank transfers but money in hand.

Hmm, in general you do need supporting evidence & you would need proof of support once you hit 21.

As asked above, how early did you come to UK?

If you can show your PR clock started earlier (ie as much time as possible was in UK at under age 21) then an application made with mother as sponsor will be made much more straightforward.

On the other hand, if you have no financial evidence at all & significant support was given (when you were age 21+) then that may be a weakness in your application.

[DaisyChloe]

I came to UK in summer 2009.

[noajthan]

I came to UK in summer 2009.

Is this your timeline?

2007 - Mother arrived in UK & started exercising treaty rights as worker

2008

2009 - Age 19 - arrived in UK
student at college doing my ESOL course for few months
- dependent family member

2010 - Age 20 - started a one year course at the university (Foundation Year) - dependent family member

2011 - Age 21 - still studying at the university - dependent family member
TBC previous EHIC card issued sometime in 2011

2012 - started my HND course in business and started working part time

2013 - still doing my HND course and working part time
Also sponsor (mother) acquired her PR - TBC

2014 - completed 1st 5 years residency in UK / PR automatically acquired - studying, working part time
Current EHIC card issued sometime in 2014

2015 - Age 25 - finished my degree, working full time

What was nature of part-time work & number of hours per week from 2012

I'm wondering if you can apply on this basis ...

1) dependent family member of EEA worker: 2009 - 2011 (you were resident in UK as student but not applying for PR as student)
then
2) applicant in own right: 2012 - 2014 ie you were exercising treaty rights as a worker (on basis of your part-time work)

Assumption: the part-time work was not marginal.

If this can fly you will only need evidence of financial support from mom for period of 2011;
(and only after date of 21st birthday)

Before that you were under 21 so no need for evidence of sponsor's financial support, (just evidence of residency).

After that you were a worker in your own right (not a dependent any more).
You can prove this with your own tax documents & etc.
Assumption: the part-time work was not marginal.

You know your own timeline & whatever evidences you have better than anyone - what do you think?
If you fill out a draft application form based on the above how does it look?

[DaisyChloe]

Thank you for outlining my timeline for the 5 qualifying years!!!

My part time work which started in 2012. I worked on average 15-16 hours and got weekly roughly £80-£90. It was not marginal because it covered my living costs plus my mom supported me financially to help with rent and food.

Well i should cross out the opportunity for EHIC card as its not covering me for the period which i actually needed so i have to leave it out and rely on my mom as a sponsor merely.

You were were close and actually outlined my timeline very precisely.

2007 - my mom moved to UK started working full time.

2009 - I was 19, in September I moved to UK and lived with my mom for the summer and then moved out and started doing English course (ESOL) I have the letter from the college confirming dates and my enrolment.

2010 - I am 20, started studying full time Foundation Year at the university, it lasted for 1 year.

2011 - I turned 21 .. In October i finished my Foundation year and in

2012 - (I am 22) in February I started studying full time and started working part time.

2013 - (I am 23) studying full time and working part time (my job was not marginal, even though it was £80-£90 per week, it did cover some of my essential needs plus my mom helped me financially)

2014 - (I am 24) still studying ful time and working part time, and in September i reach 5 years of residence.

2015 - I turn 25 in summer, I finish my university in February, stopped working part time and started working full time until this day.

I will try to apply for the PR as a direct family member, my mom as my sponsor. She will provide her PR card and P60s for all the years of her being a worker. I will provide my bank statements since 2009 which will show that my mom has sent some money by transfers (even though she gave me in cash most of the time) plus my university confirmation letters. Also, my mom will write a letter telling that she supported me financially since the first day of my entry in UK. I hope the application will be successful. I am not submitting any evidence of CSI / EHIC as i did not have it and you told me i do not need to show since HO will rely on my mother's employment activities and her PR.

[DaisyChloe]

I hope the HO will see this as you outlined it: that from 2009 until 2011 i was a dependant child, but from 2012 i worked my self part time and exercised treaty rights myself. Even though i was studying full time at that moment, would that mean i would still need proof of CSI??

However, as for the application form, I will only notify that I am applying on the basis that my mom is a sponsor otherwise it gets too complicated even for the HO, but I hope they may distinguish that in 2009-2011 i was under 21. I am not sure how they will approach the assessment ...

[noajthan]

I hope the HO will see this as you outlined it: that from 2009 until 2011 i was a dependant child, but from 2012 i worked my self part time and exercised treaty rights myself. Even though i was studying full time at that moment, would that mean i would still need proof of CSI??

However, as for the application form, I will only notify that I am applying on the basis that my mom is a sponsor otherwise it gets too complicated even for the HO, but I hope they may distinguish that in 2009-2011 i was under 21. I am not sure how they will approach the assessment ...

Sounds like a plan.

CSI
Only students & self-sufficient qualified persons need CSI (as they are deemed 'non-economically active' & cannot be permitted to place a burden on state resources, eg NHS).
Workers pay tax & do not need CSI (so mom does not).

Only family dependents of sponsors who are students (ie sponsor is studying) need CSI.
So as the dependent of a tax-paying sponsor you do not need it.
When you switch from 'dependent' to being 'worker' you are then (potentially) a tax payer & do not need CSI either.

So under the above plan you don't need proof of CSI.

Plan B
As insurance you could still write to the health authority in your country to see if they can confirm you had any EHIC cover before 2014.
(Assuming the card you have was issued sometime in 2014)

That would help you if this application happens to be rejected.

Remember there are few guarantees with HO & immigration matters - it always helps to have a Plan B.
Then you could switch to option 2 (posted previously, in above trail).


See how the form looks once you've filled it in.
You can emphasise the 2 phases in a cover letter if you find it helps.

Remember to scan & copy everything (for your records) before its submitted, including the form & all evidence.

[DaisyChloe]

Than you so much for your replies and advice ! I value it..

I will submit the application very likely next week and I will come back to update how it went down... X

[noajthan]

fyi - just came across this, about the rights of an EEA child in education - in case you need a backup plan:

If the child of an EEA national:
starts a course of education in the UK, such as attending primary or secondary school, or beginning a college or university course and
a parent of that child has been, at some time, an EEA worker or self-employed person (including working while registered on the Worker Registration or Authorisation Schemes)

the child has the right to complete the course of education in the UK.

The child has the right to reside while finishing the course of education, and the parent or parents with care of the child (whether EEA citizens or not) also have the right to reside. There is no requirement that the child or parent/s in this case be self-sufficient.

For children in school, finishing a course of education means completing their compulsory school education.

When a child and parent/s complete five years with this right to reside they get the permanent right to reside

Ref: http://www.housing-rights.info/EEA-chil ... cation.php

[DaisyChloe]

noajthan - Thank you very much for posting this information! I read it and hopefully HO will assess my application on that basis as well.

I have sent out the application and the money has been already debited from my account, so it means they have received it and put my application in queue.

I think in January - February 2016 I should hear back from them.

I have been reading around as well a lot on this forum and online on this matter.

[noajthan]

noajthan - Thank you very much for posting this information! I read it and hopefully HO will assess my application on that basis as well.

...

I have been reading around as well a lot on this forum and online on this matter.

fyi - an inspiring 'work/study' case with a happy outcome:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1283844

[DaisyChloe]

Oh thank you for posting. I have read it. Everybody is talking about biometrics. I suppose I won't need that. I understood only non EEA nationals have to enrol their biometric info. I am an EEA national so is my mother.

[DaisyChloe]

Just to add... I'm happy to read all the posts if you see more with similar matter as mine... Thank you very much ...

[ohara]

Yep, biometric enrolment only required for non-EEA. I submitted my EEA(PR) 2 weeks ago, will let you know when I hear anything.

[DaisyChloe]

ohara - oh it will be a similar timing as I submit mine a week ago. One week difference. I applied on the basis that my mom is my sponsor. I suppose you have read my post. I have been a student,never had CSI but my mom has been working since 2007 full time and already holds PR.

[ohara]

Great news. There were probably a few avenues I could have explored; my mother (British citizen) worked for well over 5 years before her death, and I also spent 11 years in compulsory education here (which apparently counts towards PR clock).

However the 5 years employment route was the easiest to get proof of quickly so I just used that. I still hope someone clears up the issue of whether the PR document needs to be held for 12 months before applying for naturalisation, or whether it shows the date of when you gain PR. As I've held PR for a lot longer than 12 months, and I don't want to wait 6 months to get this document and then have to wait another year before applying to naturalise and then waiting ANOTHER 6 months for a decision.

[DaisyChloe]

I have understood from the forum, that PR is merely a confirmation of your permanent residence and the 12 month cycle will start when its legally issued. For example, my mom, she acquired her permanent residence few years before she actually got her actual PR document and the date on the document was when it was issued. I know, in my case the same situation, I am waiting reply from the HO about my PR application, then if it is positive another 12 months and then another 6 months until I am naturalised.

[ohara]

I have understood from the forum, that PR is merely a confirmation of your permanent residence and the 12 month cycle will start when its legally issued. For example, my mom, she acquired her permanent residence few years before she actually got her actual PR document and the date on the document was when it was issued. I know, in my case the same situation, I am waiting reply from the HO about my PR application, then if it is positive another 12 months and then another 6 months until I am naturalised.

PR is an acronym for Permanent Residence. You can't apply for it, you just acquire it after meeting the qualifying criteria, for example an EEA national exercising treaty rights for 5 continuous years. If you intend to apply for naturalisation, you must have held PR status for a minimum of 12 months before applying (unless you are spouse of a British citizen).

The rule change on 12th November required you to include a document certifying permanent residence (or a permanent residence card if you're a non-EEA national). The document is just that, a document, and possessing one makes absolutely no difference to your PR status. It is merely confirmation that you have PR status. I believe that before the rule change, you would send the same documentation that you use to apply for the document certifying PR along with your naturalisation application, as the same processing team would determine your PR status along with the naturalisation application. Now it seems they've shifted this part to a separate team, hence the need to apply for the PR document separately.

If you read the latest version of AN Booklet is includes the following paragraphs:

"(...) unless you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you should normally have held permanent resident status for 12 months before applying for naturalisation. This means that you may need to wait until you have been in the United Kingdom for 6 years before you can apply. When you apply for a permanent residence document the evidence that you supply for your EEA(PR) application must be for a 5 year period that ended at least a year before you want to apply for citizenship.

For example: If you apply for Permanent Residence on 1st December 2015 and want to apply for Citizenship once that application is decided, you should send evidence that shows you were exercising Treaty rights as a qualified person or family member from 1 December 2009 to 1 December 2014. "

So it seems that if you intend to apply for naturalisation, you should show evidence of exercising treaty rights for the 5 year period ending 12 months before you apply for the PR document. Then you'll be able to apply for naturalisation immediately upon receiving the document. This is what I have done, and I intend to send my naturalisation application form off pretty much as soon as my document certifying PR arrives.

[DaisyChloe]

HO sent me an email confirming that my application now will be considered. Although, the email was automatic, it said it may take up to 6 months, but thats way too long if thats the case, i thought eu applications come first before non-eu applications... hopefully it won't take too long....

[ohara]

Two members have recently reported that their EEA PR documents have arrived 7 weeks after application. I applied early December so I assume mine will arrive within the next couple of weeks, I guess yours should too

http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 99775.html