Marriage to EEA dependent Residence permit holder

[tauw]

Hi All !
I have been browsing through this excellent website and found so many useful information.

I have a question following the statement below:

My Father is an EU national (Portuguese) and moved to UK where our whole family have come to the UK on EEA Family permit (as we are non-eu national). On entry we were given 6 months permit and following that residence permit is issued for 5 years (I have completed 4 years out of that). I have been working full-time and now want to get married.

My proposed husband is already in the UK and have applied for Tier-1 Entrepreneur long ago and still waiting to hear the outcome. He himself is a visa-national and from the same country I am from.

My question is, in this particular circumstance, if we get married in the UK, what will happen to my husband? Which route he should follow to grow our family here in UK?

I shall very much appreciate if you can provide your expert advice.

Kind rgds

[noajthan]

Hi All !
I have been browsing through this excellent website and found so many useful information.

I have a question following the statement below:

My Father is an EU national (Portuguese) and moved to UK where our whole family have come to the UK on EEA Family permit (as we are non-eu national). On entry we were given 6 months permit and following that residence permit is issued for 5 years (I have completed 4 years out of that). I have been working full-time and now want to get married.

My proposed husband is already in the UK and have applied for Tier-1 Entrepreneur long ago and still waiting to hear the outcome. He himself is a visa-national and from the same country I am from.

My question is, in this particular circumstance, if we get married in the UK, what will happen to my husband? Which route he should follow to grow our family here in UK?

I shall very much appreciate if you can provide your expert advice.

Kind rgds

How old are you?

If you are over 21 & marry you are not likely to be dependent on your EEA national sponsor any more.
It may be you will require a visa in your own right if you have not yet acquired PR.

[Obie]

How old are you?

If you are over 21 & marry you are not likely to be dependent on your EEA national sponsor any more.
It may be you will require a visa in your own right if you have not yet acquired PR.

What is the basis for the conclusion that a person over 21 is not likely to be dependent on their sponsor anymore and they may need to apply for visa in their own right.

You appear to proceed in the basis that a person under 21 can be dependent and that once they are over 21, they cannot be dependent anymore and may need to apply for visa on their own.

This does not seem to be my reading of the law or the case laws.

[Casa]

Obie, I believe that Noajthan was suggesting that if the applicant was over the age of 21 and married, they may no longer be considered as dependant on the father. The OP doesn't say whether her fiance has a valid visa at present

[noajthan]

How old are you?

If you are over 21 & marry you are not likely to be dependent on your EEA national sponsor any more.
It may be you will require a visa in your own right if you have not yet acquired PR.

What is the basis for the conclusion that a person over 21 is not likely to be dependent on their sponsor anymore and they may need to apply for visa in their own right.

You appear to proceed in the basis that a person under 21 can be dependent and that once they are over 21, they cannot be dependent anymore and may need to apply for visa on their own.

This does not seem to be my reading of the law or the case laws.

In principle there is no question that a dependent family member, aged over 21, can be dependent on their EEA sponsor.

My understanding, as intimated by the poster, is the spouse-to-be is applying for a Tier 1 visa.

Tier 1 visas are for eligible entrepreneurs & investors so the new couple are likely to be financially independent in their own right.

They may form their own nuclear family unit & independent household too.
That would not be unusual behaviour for a newly-married couple.

On the balance of probabilities, such financial independence (courtesy of Tier 1 visa holder & entrepreneur/investor) may result in cutting the dependency on a sponsor (ie EEA national & parent) that, (if OP is over 21), the OP would currently enjoy as a dependent family member.

So this is not about law or case law at all, it is about the nitty gritty of this case;
after all the devil is in the detail.

More information required from the poster which is why I requested it.

Edit: Casa has just put it very well, in her inimitable style.

[Casa]

How old are you?

If you are over 21 & marry you are not likely to be dependent on your EEA national sponsor any more.
It may be you will require a visa in your own right if you have not yet acquired PR.

What is the basis for the conclusion that a person over 21 is not likely to be dependent on their sponsor anymore and they may need to apply for visa in their own right.

You appear to proceed in the basis that a person under 21 can be dependent and that once they are over 21, they cannot be dependent anymore and may need to apply for visa on their own.

This does not seem to be my reading of the law or the case laws.

In principle there is no question that a dependent family member, aged over 21, can be dependent on their EEA sponsor.

My understanding, as intimated by the poster, is the spouse-to-be is applying for a Tier 1 visa.

Tier 1 visas are for eligible entrepreneurs & investors so the new couple are likely to be financially independent in their own right.

They may form their own nuclear family unit & independent household too.
That would not be unusual behaviour for a newly-married couple.

On the balance of probabilities, such financial independence (courtesy of Tier 1 visa holder & entrepreneur/investor) may result in cutting the dependency on a sponsor (ie EEA national & parent) that, (if OP is over 21), the OP would currently enjoy as a dependent family member.

So this is not about law or case law at all, it is about the nitty gritty of this case;
after all the devil is in the detail.

More information required from the poster which is why I requested it.

Edit: Casa has just put it very well, in her inimitable style.

But without your eloquence Noajthan. I queried the legal status of the OP's fiance as she writes "My proposed husband is already in the UK and have applied for Tier-1 Entrepreneur long ago and still waiting to hear the outcome".

[Obie]

Well the OP does not appear to ask about her status.

Her question was focused on her proposed husband.

For which there is a simple answer, which is, he will not qualify under EU law unless he was an extended family member of OP'S father before entering the UK.

OP status is a different matter altogether, which fortunately she has not queried.

But the caselaw indicates that a dependent family member does not lose their status of dependent family member if they entered the UK and commence independent life owing to them acquiring paid employments.

So yes I don't accept the view that a dependant family member must obtain visa in their own right if the obtained employment on their entry and as a result of that becomes independent

The above analysis does not apply to OP'S case . As her question does not relate to it.

The OP'S fiancee applying for Tier 1 does not mean the OP is rich, does it?

But even of it does, it does not indicate she lose her dependent family member status , does it?

[Casa]

I would assume that entrepreneur/investor means that they have a 'bob or two' (as the saying goes).
Considering this scenario...if the OP marries and successfully sponsors her non-EU national husband (he becomes her dependant), could the father continue to be her sponsor...i.e she remains dependent on him. But then I assume that she can only sponsor a spouse if she has PR which means she would no longer be dependant on her father anyway.
This reminds me of conundrums we were always given to solve in the classroom...and I never got them right!

[Obie]

It is the future husband that is on entrepreneurs visa and not OP.

OP indicated that she has held her Residence card for 4 years and had a first 6 months issued to her and given the fact that a Residence Card takes about 6 month to be issued in normal times, it is safe to say that OP may well have aquire PR if she has not done so already .

I don't think it will be safe to conclude that the asset of the op future husband , is already hers.

As I said again, the court in Reyes has ruled that the status of a dependent family member is not lost if the become independent owing to gainful employment in the host state.

Noajthan is a respectable poster, and I will not have question that aspect of his post if I thought it trivial.

[Casa]

It is the future husband that is on entrepreneurs visa and not OP.

OP indicated that she has held her Residence card for 4 years and had a first 6 months issued to her and given the fact that a Residence Card takes about 6 month to be issued in normal times, it is safe to say that OP may well have aquire PR if she has not done so already .

I don't think it will be safe to conclude that the asset of the op future husband , is already hers.

As I said again, the court in Reyes has ruled that the status of a dependent family member is not lost if the become independent owing to gainful employment in the host state.

Noajthan is a respectable poster, and I will not have question that aspect of his post if I thought it trivial.

I should have used the word 'he' not 'they in this sentence to be clear that I was referring to the future husband "I would assume that entrepreneur/investor means that they have (he has) a 'bob or two' (as the saying goes)"
I wasn't suggesting that 'gainful employment' causes loss of dependency...I was querying whether her husband could be dependant on her while she still remains dependent on her father. i.e can she be a sponsor and still continue be sponsored?
The future husband by the way, doesn't appear to have a Tier 1 entrepreneur/investor visa at present...he's in the UK and been waiting for a decision 'for a long time' according to the OP.

[noajthan]

It is the future husband that is on entrepreneurs visa and not OP.

OP indicated that she has held her Residence card for 4 years and had a first 6 months issued to her and given the fact that a Residence Card takes about 6 month to be issued in normal times, it is safe to say that OP may well have aquire PR if she has not done so already .

I don't think it will be safe to conclude that the asset of the op future husband , is already hers.

As I said again, the court in Reyes has ruled that the status of a dependent family member is not lost if the become independent owing to gainful employment in the host state.

Noajthan is a respectable poster, and I will not have question that aspect of his post if I thought it trivial.

If the spouse-to-be secures his Tier 1 visa then his status in UK is ofcourse assured.
Likewise if OP has or acquires PR in the near future her position in UK is assured.

It is interesting to consider whether the spouse (if unsuccessful with Tier 1) can be welcomed into hearth & home as a further family dependent of the EEA national father;
ie as a dependent son-in-law.

It is equally interesting to consider & understand that the OP, even if emancipated by marriage, can maintain links with the bosom of her family & thus maintain dependency on her sponsor, if she has not acquired PR.
(My understanding is that up to a 50% level of financial dependency may be acceptable).

[Obie]

Well I respect your consideration of the factors you cited.
I will not dear challenge you desire to go through it.

I am unsure where you derive the 50% of dependency from.

My understanding of the law, is that it matters not, If the dependency is 5% provided that 5% is essential for the non EEA national to meet their essential needs. Even if the applicant works and decide to save her money and life off parents to meet her essential needs, the caselaw indicates that she may well qualify.

[noajthan]

Well I respect your consideration of the factors you cited.
I will not dear challenge you desire to go through it.

I am unsure where you derive the 50% of dependency from.

My understanding of the law, is that it matters not, If the dependency is 5% provided that 5% is essential for the non EEA national to meet their essential needs. Even if the applicant works and decide to save her money and life off parents to meet her essential needs, the caselaw indicates that she may well qualify.

However concise I always feel I have learned something from your contributions to the forums.

The '50%' is actually mentioned in the ubiquitous HO guidance related to extended family members but I take it as being indicative.

The applicant does not need to be dependent on the EEA national to meet all or most of their essential needs. For example, an applicant is considered dependent if they received a pension which covers half of their essential needs and money from their EEA national sponsor which covers the other half.

[Casa]

I've had to smile reading back through our discussion. We appear to have been conversing between the three of us....the OP hasn't responded since their opening post.

[Obie]

It seems like an interesting topic, one that raises important issues that warrants clarification.

Notwithstanding OP's absence, I still believe it is a matter that is of utmost importance, and we most address.

My friend Noajthan thought a person needs to show 50% dependency which is not founded in law.

He claims to have spotted it in a Home office guidance, which i have no reason to disbelieve.

I must say, that many of these so called guidance, are not really compliant with the law. They are simply some internal policy, which is clearly non-compliant with community law, masquerading as interpretation of community law, and one must be watchful of them.

[jovon]

Hi I just want to say am in the same situation because I left my mother house to work in another state( Birmingham) for four months my visa was revoked so one has to be very careful because I left I was classed as not dependant on my mum