Bringing Parents

[HelpThisPerson]

Dear friends,
I got my ILR in Jan 2016. In normal circumstances this would be a reason to celebrate. As soon as I got my visa I had to rush back home to India. in a matter of this week in India, things took a major turn for worse.

My parents are alone back in India. my mother is a copd patient and her condition suddenly deteriorated. she is possibly on Spam now for rest of her life. My dad in this same time developed symptoms which I thought was a shock reaction of my mothers condition but we did some tests and assessments with a physician for him and it turns out he has parkinsons. There is no one to care for them.

I could move to India but any new job here will not allow me to earn as much as in the UK, and I need this money for the medical expenses of my parents (definitely for my mother I am still learning new things about my father's condition so I am not sure about his medical expenses in future) which will rise significantly with time. So it will be a big shock/handicap if I have to leave my UK job. In the UK if I am able to bring them, I can manage to cover their medical expenses myself with my UK job in UK which I am sure and I can provide evidences during any visa application.

I looked at the forum and internet generally and it seems visa for parents is impossible. visitor visa is infeasible, 2 air travels every year is nothing less than a torture. (I am wondering what is the use of life in the UK test where in the study material they say - caring for family is an important value in the UK, what a contradiction!!) Please can someone guide me. Should I just give a shot with dependent visa for parents and when it is rejected challenge it in court?

[Wanderer]

Dear friends,
I got my ILR in Jan 2016. In normal circumstances this would be a reason to celebrate. As soon as I got my visa I had to rush back home to India. in a matter of this week in India, things took a major turn for worse.

My parents are alone back in India. my mother is a copd patient and her condition suddenly deteriorated. she is possibly on Spam now for rest of her life. My dad in this same time developed symptoms which I thought was a shock reaction of my mothers condition but we did some tests and assessments with a physician for him and it turns out he has parkinsons. There is no one to care for them.

I could move to India but any new job here will not allow me to earn as much as in the UK, and I need this money for the medical expenses of my parents (definitely for my mother I am still learning new things about my father's condition so I am not sure about his medical expenses in future) which will rise significantly with time. So it will be a big shock/handicap if I have to leave my UK job. In the UK if I am able to bring them, I can manage to cover their medical expenses myself with my UK job in UK which I am sure and I can provide evidences during any visa application.

I looked at the forum and internet generally and it seems visa for parents is impossible. Please can someone guide me. Should I just give a shot with dependent visa for parents and when it is rejected challenge it in court?

No chance, best to relocate back home if you want to help, earning cash isn't everything, or continue to earn in UK and pay for Third party support back home.

SS route has a small window to survive, but moving around Europe with debilitated parents isn't fair to them.

Visa for both will cost £4000 in IHS, and 99.9999% chance of rejection.

[secret.simon]

As a person with ILR, you are not eligible for the Surinder Singh route.

Adult Dependent Relative visas, as you mentioned, are practically impossible to get. The caseworker guidance on ADRs is worth a read.

E-ECDR.2.4. The applicant or, if the applicant and their partner are the sponsor’s parents or grandparents, the applicant’s partner, must as a result of age, illness or disability require long-term personal care to perform everyday tasks.

E-ECDR.2.5. The applicant, or if the applicant and their partner are the sponsor’s parents or grandparents, the applicant’s partner, must be unable, even with the practical and financial help of the sponsor, to obtain the required level of care in the country where they are living, because -
(a) it is not available and there is no person in that country who can reasonably provide it; or;
(b) it is not affordable.

E-ECDR.3.1. The applicant must provide evidence that they can be adequately maintained, accommodated and cared for in the UK by the sponsor without recourse to public funds. This is detailed in Appendix FM-SE.

The difficulty is proving that you can afford to take care of your parents in the UK while at the same time being unable to afford the same level of care in India, where the cost of care is significantly lower. How would you approach that question?

I am not sure that ADR applications need to pay the IHS as it is an application for ILR. But the fees per application are £1982, rising to £2141 on 6th April. Following an almost certain rejection, you will need to apply for judicial review. Factor in the cost of that, though the JCWI is looking for a test case to take to court and could assist you with the costs and advice.

[HelpThisPerson]

Hello Secret Simon, Wanderer thanks for your replies..

Secret Simon the abstract you highlighted actually seems to give me hope.

I am thinking of 2.5 (a) rather than 2.5(b)... 2.5(a) talks about level of care and 2.5(b) talks about cost of care. A non-family member cannot give same quality (level of care) and love required for a person with Parkinsons. and it seems it is 2.5(a) OR 2.5(b) rather than 2.5(a) AND 2.5(b)

Maybe I should give it a shot (?)

[Wanderer]

Hello Secret Simon, Wanderer thanks for your replies..

Secret Simon the abstract you highlighted actually seems to give me hope.

I am thinking of 2.5 (a) rather than 2.5(b)... 2.5(a) talks about level of care and 2.5(b) talks about cost of care. A non-family member cannot give same quality (level of care) and love required for a person with Parkinsons.

Why not?

[secret.simon]

to obtain the required level of care in the country where they are living, because -
(a) it is not available and there is no person in that country who can reasonably provide it; or;

I would interpret it more critically. I doubt the Home Office would evaluate "the required level of care" in emotional terms. They would interpret the terms in clinical terms. Is the medical treatment for the relevant medical issues available in India? Is personal care (in terms of washing, bathing and dressing) available in India? And crucially, is it more affordable in India than in the UK? If the answer to all these questions is yes, I think your parents have a very slim chance of getting ADR visas.

Maybe I should give it a shot (?)

By all means, give it a shot. Just be aware of the costs, both financially and emotionally.

[HelpThisPerson]

Thanks Secret Simon for putting the things in right direction once again regarding 2.5 (a). I know I should be answering the questions you mentioned in ADR application rather than here but you highlight pertinent questions based on my replies which is helpful, hence I am writing my possible replies.

Yes indeed most of the answers are yes except probably with
"Is personal care (in terms of washing, bathing and dressing) available in India? "
though answer might seem yes generally the answer for my case would probably be no.. because
1>> if I hire someone to look after my parents, that person has to be paid. Though money is not the issue, even if I transfer money to India my father does not have the capability due to his condition now to go bank/ATM and take it out and make right amount of payments and my mother cannot go out of the house as well. (maybe not a strong argument)
2>> My parents will not be able to give reliable feedback if the carer is doing the work correctly because for my father his condition does not give him the capability to evaluate the carer and my mother is too weak to talk I cannot evaluate that sitting far away in the UK. If the carer is not doing the job correctly, this may put my parents' life at risk.(this I think is a strong argument)
3>> My mother requires continous Spam. If there is a breakdown of Spam machine she will need quick support and unpredictable monetary help with repairs for e.g. A carer will not put in his own money and time may be crucial here.
so probably for me the answer is no

[secret.simon]

Think critically, without getting emotional about it.

1>> if I hire someone to look after my parents, that person has to be paid. Though money is not the issue, even if I transfer money to India my father does not have the capability due to his condition now to go bank/ATM and take it out and make right amount of payments and my mother cannot go out of the house as well. (maybe not a strong argument)

It may be possible to pay directly into that person's bank account. Alternatively an NRE account could be set up with the carer having the power of attorney at the Indian end.

2>> My parents will not be able to give reliable feedback if the carer is doing the work correctly because for my father his condition does not give him the capability to evaluate the carer and my mother is too weak to talk I cannot evaluate that sitting far away in the UK. If the carer is not doing the job correctly, this may put my parents' life at risk.(this I think is a strong argument)

True, but I doubt the Home Office is being to be bothered by the mechanism of feedback. The point is,the care is available and affordable. Do your parents have any relatives (including those on your wife's side) that can pop by for a cup of tea and to keep a check, say every two weeks to a month?

Also, such situations (old people being unable to give feedback on poor care) exists in the UK as well. So, I am not entirely convinced that the Home Office is going to be particularly swayed by that argument. That is, to some extent, the price of getting old.

3>> My mother requires continous Spam. If there is a breakdown of Spam machine she will need quick support and unpredictable monetary help with repairs for e.g. A carer will not put in his own money and time may be crucial here.

If your mother requires a continuous supply of Spam, I presume that you already have a system in place to ensure that it works. Why can it not continue?

The NRE account mentioned above is a fairly obvious mechanism with regards to urgent supply of cash.

Do you have any siblings or other close relatives in India? If so, is there any reason why they can not take care of your parents?

Have you explored the option for care homes in India? I believe that some communities in India provide for care homes for their elderly. It may be worth looking at them.

[noajthan]

As an aside, there are aging British citizens who are nowadays seriously looking into the possibility of retiring to India.

This is due to reasons of loneliness, isolation (etc) in UK.
Also due to the housing (haveli), extended support networks & quality private healthcare facilities as well as affordable hired help that are readily available to them in India, (even as strangers):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06z8840