Swiss/ Italian border immigration controls.

[Brit Chick]

My husband (residing in the UK on a two year spouse visa) and I (full UK citizen) are going to geneva for a week in january. My understanding is that my husband does not need to apply for any additional visas to do so.

We were thinking about taking a day trip into italy while we were there, and sods law, cannot get an appointment at the italian embassy in london to get one. I wonder if we could just cross the border and spend the day in italy and then go back to geneva without my husband having the visa.

Has anyone else tried and done this successfully or should we not risk it?

[mym]

As you already know you can enter with passports and proof of relationship, so I'd say take your wedding certificate and do it, the worst that can happen is an argument at the border if they do any checks.

[Dawie]

Border controls between Switzerland and Italy (and indeed most other countries bordering Switzerland such as France, Germany and Austria) range from sporadic at worst to non-existent at best, so your chances of actually going through any sort of border control are pretty low.

[rm]

On the contrary, in my experience border controls are frequent when you enter Italy (not when you return to Switzerland), especially if you travel by public transport. If you travel by car, you could risk it if your husband looks like a European , although holiday season would be a safer bet.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you are travelling together and both are carrying valid passports and you have proof that you are married (i.e. your marriage certificate), then they are required to let you in to Italy.

I would suggest you also take a copy of Directive 2004/38/EC (in English and Italian) as well as the Italian transposition of the legislation from http://eumovement.wordpress.com/info-italy/

You will most likely not need any of this stuff, but it does not hurt to carry it along.

[Brit Chick]

Thanks for the above links, which I have printed off and will defontely whip out if stopped. It's frustrating that we should have to do this, our only crime is that we would lke to spend a day in italy and the embassy want us to literally jump through hoops to get a schengen visa which wouldn't be so bad if they actually had any appointments available fr us before our trip.

Just so we're prepared.....what's the very worst that can happen if they do stop us and question why my husband has no schengen visa. We're intending on just pleading ignorance on the basis that we thought that you had to apply for a schengen visa at your main destination (we will be staying in geneva for the rest of the week)

If it'll do anything to jeopardise my husbands immigration status in the uk at a later date then obviously we would be silly to take the risk but if at the worst we'll just get a telling off and sent back to geneva then so be it.

[mym]

Just so we're prepared.....what's the very worst that can happen if they do stop us and question why my husband has no schengen visa.

They deport you illegally and you sue them.

We're intending on just pleading ignorance

Don't, stand your ground and quote your rights.

If it'll do anything to jeopardise my husbands immigration status in the uk at a later date then obviously we would be silly to take the risk

It won't have any effect on his uk status.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Just to be clear, your husband has a right of free movement in the EU when it he is travelling with you. They can require that he have a visa, but they are required to issue the visa as soon as possible, on the basis of an accelerated process and for free. If he does not have a visa (e.g. if you were not able to get an appointment before you had to travel), they are required to let him in if you are both travelling with passports and you can prove your family relationship (by carrying your marriage certificate).

Case law has also been established by the European Court of Justice in this connection. In its judgement of 25 July 2002 in Case C459-99 (MRAX) the Court ruled that, if Article 3(2) of Directive 68/360 and Article 3(2) of Directive 73/48 are not to be denied their full effect, ‘a visa must be issued without delay and as far as possible at the place if issue into national territory’ adding that, in view of the importance attached by the Community legislature to the protection of family life, ‘it is at any event disproportionate and therefore prohibited to send back a third country national married to a national of Member State where he is able to prove his identity and the conjugal ties and there is no evidence to establish that he represents a risk to public policy, public security or public health within the meaning of Article 10 of Directive 68/360 and Article 8 of Directive 73/148′.

[Brit Chick]

Just thought I would update this thread in case there are others in the same situation - my husband and I travelled from Geneva to Milan with relative ease. The train stops at the italian/swiss border allowing guards to enter the train and pick people at random to show their travel documents.

On the journey into milan no one questioned us at all, this might have been since we were travelling during peak morning rush hour and the train was packed. We did get questioned on the way back to geneva but pleaded ignorance about knowing that we'd need a visa just for a day trip which did the trick

[SYH]

Just thought I would update this thread in case there are others in the same situation - my husband and I travelled from Geneva to Milan with relative ease. The train stops at the italian/swiss border allowing guards to enter the train and pick people at random to show their travel documents.

On the journey into milan no one questioned us at all, this might have been since we were travelling during peak morning rush hour and the train was packed. We did get questioned on the way back to geneva but pleaded ignorance about knowing that we'd need a visa just for a day trip which did the trick

what is your spouse's nationality?

[sakura]

Just thought I would update this thread in case there are others in the same situation - my husband and I travelled from Geneva to Milan with relative ease. The train stops at the italian/swiss border allowing guards to enter the train and pick people at random to show their travel documents.

On the journey into milan no one questioned us at all, this might have been since we were travelling during peak morning rush hour and the train was packed. We did get questioned on the way back to geneva but pleaded ignorance about knowing that we'd need a visa just for a day trip which did the trick

what is your spouse's nationality?

Pakistani. From her previous threads somewhere on this board!