Schengen Visas for non-EU Spouse - Queries

[liksah]

Those proposals look terrible! Especially for Non-EU spouses/children. So just to understand correctly, for non-EU spouses who do not live in the EU, the proposal would effectively remove the 90 day no-strings-attached free movement and instead the EU spouse would have to move to the member state (say German spouse moves to France), get all paperwork in order and then apply for a 'family reunion' type of national visa for the non-EU spouse?

Basically Article 10 residence cards would be null and void for those who do not hold prior EU residence or did not get married in an EU member state while living there?

Wow. Just, wow.

[manicminer]

It's a bureacratic war of egos where families are the ones who pay the price; a catch all net that penalises quite possibly all EU citizens) for getting married to a non-EU.

No point in thinking too much about it though - I will plod on!

For most people, they probably just want to get a visa, have new life and live in peace, rather than be forced to become their own EU Law expert and have to be entagled in a labyrinth of laws and regulations. For some, these are no more than political games, but for others there are real lives involved.

Let"s hope there is a LOT of EU resistance against the UK proposals!

[liksah]

No point in thinking too much about it though - I will plod on!

I understand the spirit of what you're saying there.

But as a non-EU spouse who is planning to move to an EU country (not the UK..) with my EU spouse at the end of this year.. this might actually affect my plans tremendously. I think many people in similar situations should take notice and plan their moves accordingly. If the UK votes against a Brexit, it looks like this is going to have a profound impact on the derived free movement rights of non-EU spouses who have not lived in any EU country so far.

It sucks that a change proposed by the UK will have such far reaching impact on people who are not and never intended to be associated in any way with the UK. Sad.

[manicminer]

Nothing is really clear yet from the new proposals, unfortunately.

I did indeed get the visa.
It was processed in one day.

However, I had at least an hour of verbal ju-jitsu with the consular assistants to get it processed.

Some issues I had were:

a) One assistant claimed I had to be already resident in the EU for my spouse to get a visa to ;join me' under the Directive - my best defence was the Directive itself, since it uses the words "accompany or join".
b) They asked for an address in the EU member state - I refused, citing the Visa Handbook.

The paperwork was perfect, and in the end, the consular officer made sure the application was done fairly - it feels like the assistant were simply resistant because they weren't familiar with these applications and just became defensive when I tried to assert my (our) rights.

In the end, so far, so good.
Let's hope the new proposals don't put a damper on anything...

[manicminer]

I just wondered,

The visa receipt stated: Familienangehöriger eines Unionsbürgers/EWR-Bürgers (family member of Union/EEA national)...

but the 90 day, multiple entry, C visa states on it..

besuchs -/ geschäftsvisum : visit - / business visa
erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet : gainful employment not permitted

This has no effect on one's rights under Directive 2004/38/EC right?

[noajthan]

I just wondered,

The visa receipt stated: Familienangehöriger eines Unionsbürgers/EWR-Bürgers (family member of Union/EEA national)...

but the 90 day, multiple entry, C visa states on it..

besuchs -/ geschäftsvisum : visit - / business visa
erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet : gainful employment not permitted

This has no effect on one's rights under Directive 2004/38/EC right?

No, once visa holder arrives in country with EEA sponsor, EU free movement rights kick in.
How cool is that.

[manicminer]

LOL,

It's cool enough for me,

So when we arrive at immigration, do I take the wife through the EU line with me or the non-EU line?

So, the minimal check applies for both of us under the Visa Code rules?

But will we be asked to show the notarised marriage certificate, or is my presence + the wife's schengen visa adequate for the border guards?

Just trying to be prepared to make it plain sailing for the wife.

Cheers,
MM

[noajthan]

LOL,

It's cool enough for me,

So when we arrive at immigration, do I take the wife through the EU line with me or the non-EU line?

So, the minimal check applies for both of us under the Visa Code rules?

But will we be asked to show the notarised marriage certificate, or is my presence + the wife's schengen visa adequate for the border guards?

Just trying to be prepared to make it plain sailing for the wife.

Cheers,
MM

EU line surely.

Visa should be enough.

Suggest have any useful docs in a travel bag (as a prudent traveller would do anyway) but the visa & id is surely enough.

[manicminer]

Strangely enough, I seem to have just found the answer...

From Regulation (EC) No 562/2006 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 15 March 2006 establishing a Community Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders (Schengen Borders Code)

Article 9

Separate lanes and information on signs

1. Member States shall provide separate lanes, in particular at air border crossing points in order to carry out checks on persons, in accordance with Article 7. Such lanes shall be differentiated by means of the signs bearing the indications set out in the Annex III.

Member States may provide separate lanes at their sea and land border crossing points and at borders between Member States not applying Article 20 at their common borders. The signs bearing the indications set out in the Annex III shall be used if Member States provide separate lanes at those borders.

Member States shall ensure that such lanes are clearly signposted, including where the rules relating to the use of the different lanes are waived as provided for in paragraph 4, in order to ensure optimal flow levels of persons crossing the border.

2. (a) Persons enjoying the Community right of free movement are entitled to use the lanes indicated by the sign in part A of Annex III. They may also use the lanes indicated by the sign in part B of Annex III.

(b) All other persons shall use the lanes indicated by the sign in part B of Annex III.

Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the Union: Guide on how to get the best out of Directive 2004/38/EC


Quote:
Chapter 2

.....Who can benefit from the right to move and reside freely?

The personal scope of the Directive is quite wide and covers not
only Union citizens but also their family members.

Thus, pursuant to Directive 2004/38/EC and the Schengen Borders Code, all family members traveling with EU citizens are entitled to use the same line as EU citizens.

Referenced from: http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.or ... -t352.html

[noajthan]

Strangely enough, I seem to have just found the answer...

...

Quote:
Chapter 2

.....Who can benefit from the right to move and reside freely?

The personal scope of the Directive is quite wide and covers not only Union citizens but also their family members.

Thus, pursuant to Directive 2004/38/EC and the Schengen Borders Code, all family members traveling with EU citizens are entitled to use the same line as EU citizens.

Referenced from: http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.or ... -t352.html

Sounds great. Enjoy the moment.

And if you want to get into the mind of the border guard who interrogates you, I mean smiles and waves you through, see here:
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/doc ... 006%20INIT

[manicminer]

LOL,

Yes, I know I'm being more than a bit pedantic and fussy over all this...

It's just my experience that a lot of folks seem to have their rights trampled all over at times, so just being prepared for the (hopefully) smiling border guard who knows the law, and the ones who may not.

[noajthan]

LOL,

Yes, I know I'm being more than a bit pedantic and fussy over all this...

It's just my experience that a lot of folks seem to have their rights trampled all over at times, so just being prepared for the (hopefully) smiling border guard who knows the law, and the ones who may not.

Totally understand.
Too much invested and at stake to take chances.

I completely endorse your belt and braces approach.
Good luck.