Dual national applying for PR confirmation - stuck on sectio

[ukasha]

hi guys i am trying to fill in this form but section 10 is beyond my understanding.

I am an EEA national living in uk since 2003 and have just had my husband come to uk with family permit and now we wish to apply for PR card for him ( i have also acquired british nationality so dual national but apparently this should not be of worry legally? they cannot refuse if i am dual national am i right as i only moved to uk in 2003 so exercised free movement) also it only bothers me that it asks questions about me having permanent residence document>?

why does it ask that as being an EEA national i DO NOT need to have acquired this and was allowed to stay here legally anyway so the question does not make sense if i answer no i do not have PR document and answer subsection C (as legally allowed PR right when arriving in UK) it then asks how else i acquired PR but only gives me option like "through 5 years continuous residence" etc .....i mean this does not make sense for me as an EEA national to answer this also if i was to answer it keeping in mind the information i gave to acquire my british nationality ( in that case i already gave this information then so do i need to give all this information again? such as through being a student or worker etc? as i moved here permanently with family in 2003 so have been working plus student etc while here but this is not the reason i came here?)

my question basically is that this whole section is confusing as to how i should answer this or whether i should at all as being an EEA national i had PR rights anyway so what do they mean how did i acquire these?

please help me out as i am very confused..it would be dearly appreciated.

[ukasha]

I don't know if anyone pointed out but you can simply use the old form, write a cover letter and point them in direction of the:
Home Office Guide
Processes and procedures: EEA documentation applications – v3.0 Published for Home Office staff on 08 October 2015
link is below

Page 8 talks about using previous forms or just writing a letter.
Also Every section has this quote:

An EEA(PR) form can be used to submit an application. However, you must not refuse or reject an application because it is not on the right form. A letter requesting a document certifying permanent residence or permanent residence card, or an application made on one of the previous forms (EEA3 or EEA4), is acceptable as long as:
 the correct fee is submitted with the application
 the applicant gives their biometric information if they are a non-EEA national applying
on or after 6 April 2015

this particular one is from PR section on page 19, but it is the same on all other sections (find section for your case and check)

I spoke recently to EEA applications team about this and something else as I am not a strait forward case and asked them if I included printout of their own guides and rules, would I come across as patronising.
The guy I spoke to told me that if I phoned for an advice, that is exactly what he would advised me to do. Print relevant pages, point out the source and highlight sections concerning you.
He said that makes officers jobs much easier and they appreciate if you don't just presume they will know EVERYTHING...(weather they should be aware of their own rules and policies is question for another discussion)

But anyway, don't bother with the new form, its too long, too intrusive (why would anyone want to know what language my KIDS speak at home is beyond me) and if you feel confident about your case, just use the old, simpler form and send them a copy of the guideline that says you can do that.

Oh, yes, very important !!! make sure you include the correct fee (currently £65 I believe) and biometrics pages from the new form.

Here is the link:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

Hope this helps

hi your post is helpful for my question so you are saying i can either use an old form of 37 pages for EEA2 application for my husband and/or fill new form and do not fill section 10? this will not result in them refusing or delaying my application for EEA2 residence card for my husband would it?

already his FP was refused for marriage of convenience then i reapplied with all the evidence which i left out in first application plus quoted legal rights etc as we were living together abroad for over a year since marriage so he was finally granted FP.....

now we wish to apply for residence card for him so shall i also mention in cover letter the previous situation and current with legal rights etc with all evidence so that they should not delay again

[noajthan]

To avoid confusion & jumbled responses, I have moved your question to its own thread.

[ohara]

For a permanent residence card for non-EEA national, I believe the form you want to use is EEA4

When did you become a British citizen?

[noajthan]

hi guys i am trying to fill in this form but section 10 is beyond my understanding.

I am an EEA national living in uk since 2003 and have just had my husband come to uk with family permit and now we wish to apply for PR card for him ( i have also acquired british nationality so dual national but apparently this should not be of worry legally? they cannot refuse if i am dual national am i right as i only moved to uk in 2003 so exercised free movement) also it only bothers me that it asks questions about me having permanent residence document>?

...

please help me out as i am very confused..it would be dearly appreciated.

... already his FP was refused for marriage of convenience then i reapplied with all the evidence which i left out in first application plus quoted legal rights etc as we were living together abroad for over a year since marriage so he was finally granted FP.....

now we wish to apply for residence card for him ...

You originally posted in a thread about the EEA PR card.
That is different from a RC.

You say husband has recently arrived in UK on FP.
So he probably needs a RC as he can't have acquired PR yet.

I think you have been struggling with wrong form.

That is a good reason not to tag onto other people's posts - it causes confusion.

So I think you were looking at wrong form.
In any case section 10 of PR form only applies to someone on Surinder Singh route; this is a complex manouvere in the EU migration journey and does not seem to apply to you.

A PR card is useful although optional. You may not have had one if you acquired PR a year or so ago..

However there is a complication.
If you have just become a BC then you will not considered to be an EEA national in UK.

That means you cannot sponsor a dependent family member under EU rules.
That raises questions over husband's right to reside & work/study in UK.

It will help if you clarify:

• your previous (dual) nationality?
  how/when you naturalised?
  
  when did you apply for FP for husband?
  when was FP granted?
  when did husband arrive in UK?

[ukasha]

hi guys i am trying to fill in this form but section 10 is beyond my understanding.

I am an EEA national living in uk since 2003 and have just had my husband come to uk with family permit and now we wish to apply for PR card for him ( i have also acquired british nationality so dual national but apparently this should not be of worry legally? they cannot refuse if i am dual national am i right as i only moved to uk in 2003 so exercised free movement) also it only bothers me that it asks questions about me having permanent residence document>?

...

please help me out as i am very confused..it would be dearly appreciated.

... already his FP was refused for marriage of convenience then i reapplied with all the evidence which i left out in first application plus quoted legal rights etc as we were living together abroad for over a year since marriage so he was finally granted FP.....

now we wish to apply for residence card for him ...

You originally posted in a thread about the EEA PR card.
That is different from a RC.

You say husband has recently arrived in UK on FP.
So he probably needs a RC as he can't have acquired PR yet.

I think you have been struggling with wrong form.

That is a good reason not to tag onto other people's posts - it causes confusion.

So I think you were looking at wrong form.
In any case section 10 of PR form only applies to someone on Surinder Singh route; this is a complex manouvere in the EU migration journey and does not seem to apply to you.

A PR card is useful although optional. You may not have had one if you acquired PR a year or so ago..

However there is a complication.
If you have just become a BC then you will not considered to be an EEA national in UK.

That means you cannot sponsor a dependent family member under EU rules.
That raises questions over husband's right to reside & work/study in UK.

It will help if you clarify:

• your previous (dual) nationality?
  how/when you naturalised?
  
  when did you apply for FP for husband?
  when was FP granted?
  when did husband arrive in UK?

Hi yess i believe i was on the wrong place

Yeah i meant the RC for my husband

I acquired naturalisation about 3 years ago and have

British passort

Applied for fm and got it in Nov 2015 from abroad as i was living with my husband for over a year after marriage in pakistan

We came here after his fm in end November

I have a job and been working for three months now so we now want to apply for his RC.

So you are saying i can leave out the section 10 about sponsor resident status....that won't result in them refusing?

Also in regards to my dual nationality apparently as i have had exercised my treaty rights here and free movement rights when moved here in 2003 so it shouldn't matter for husband's RC

So i can use old eea2 form and include right fee and biometric info?

Thanks a lot for your help

[noajthan]

Hi yess i believe i was on the wrong place

Yeah i meant the RC for my husband

I acquired naturalisation about 3 years ago and have British passort

Applied for fm and got it in Nov 2015 from abroad as i was living with my husband for over a year after marriage in pakistan

We came here after his fm in end November

I have a job and been working for three months now so we now want to apply for his RC.

So you are saying i can leave out the section 10 about sponsor resident status....that won't result in them refusing?

Also in regards to my dual nationality apparently as i have had exercised my treaty rights here and free movement rights when moved here in 2003 so it shouldn't matter for husband's RC

So i can use old eea2 form and include right fee and biometric info?

Thanks a lot for your help

PR form is inappropriate at this time.

RC form is correct form not the PR form.

I don't know what form you are looking at so section numbers don't mean much.
You have not done Surinder Singh so skip any section/question about SS.
Do not skip questions about sponsor.

You do not have to use latest form, you can use earlier/simpler forms.

However you may now only claim to be an 'EEA national' under a transitional arrangement - its not automatic even if you were in UK in 2003.

If you were not married to your husband at the relevant time (before 2012) & husband did not have RC (in or before 2012) then my understanding is this cannot be invoked.
So you are now a BC only.

This still doesn't really make sense.
When applying for FP did you apply as sponsor as a BC or EEA national?
Did you mention dual nationality & your new ciizenship?
It's unclear how you were granted a FP for entry under EU rules.

On other hand, if husband entered UK under UK rules (& entry visa?) its too late to switch to EU rules (as you are British)..

[ukasha]

Hi yess i believe i was on the wrong place

Yeah i meant the RC for my husband

I acquired naturalisation about 3 years ago and have British passort

Applied for fm and got it in Nov 2015 from abroad as i was living with my husband for over a year after marriage in pakistan

We came here after his fm in end November

I have a job and been working for three months now so we now want to apply for his RC.

So you are saying i can leave out the section 10 about sponsor resident status....that won't result in them refusing?

Also in regards to my dual nationality apparently as i have had exercised my treaty rights here and free movement rights when moved here in 2003 so it shouldn't matter for husband's RC

So i can use old eea2 form and include right fee and biometric info?

Thanks a lot for your help

PR form is inappropriate at this time.

RC form is correct form not the PR form.

I don't know what form you are looking at so section numbers don't mean much.
You have not done Surinder Singh so skip any section/question about SS.
Do not skip questions about sponsor.

You do not have to use latest form, you can use earlier/simpler forms.

However you may now only claim to be an 'EEA national' under a transitional arrangement - its not automatic even if you were in UK in 2003.

If you were not married to your husband at the relevant time (before 2012) & husband did not have RC (in or before 2012) then my understanding is this cannot be invoked.
So you are now a BC only.

This still doesn't really make sense.
When applying for FP did you apply as sponsor as a BC or EEA national?
Did you mention dual nationality & your new ciizenship?
It's unclear how you were granted a FP for entry under EU rules.

On other hand, if husband entered UK under UK rules (& entry visa?) its too late to switch to EU rules (as you are British)..

Yh we applied for fp as EEA family member
It does not matter if i have dual nationality as i have lived in both countries and not just UK so therefore exercised my free movement rights therefore i can use the EEA route

Also in RC application form section 10 is about sponsor if sponsor has permanent residence in UK then it asks how acquired etc five years completion etc student, employment etc but i guess it's less complicated if i use previous form form his RC and include right fee and details in cover letter

Also how do I provide his biometric information as for his FP eea it was not required

[noajthan]

Yh we applied for fp as EEA family member
It does not matter if i have dual nationality as i have lived in both countries and not just UK so therefore exercised my free movement rights therefore i can use the EEA route

Also in RC application form section 10 is about sponsor if sponsor has permanent residence in UK then it asks how acquired etc five years completion etc student, employment etc but i guess it's less complicated if i use previous form form his RC and include right fee and details in cover letter

Also how do I provide his biometric information as for his FP eea it was not required

What is your other nationality?
Where have you lived before? What did you do there & how long for?
What is your timeline?

Have you gone & done Surinder Singh somewhere in Europe since you became naturalised?
(Living in Pakistan for a year doesn't count).

If you have not done Surinder Singh (away in Europe) it sounds like there was an element of misrepresentation if the fact you are now Briish was not made clear in the FP application.
The fact you got a FP does not change that.

If you came from an EEA country then became British and stayed in UK (or just visited Pakistan) you are now only considered to be British,
You will not be considered an EEA national in UK (by HO).

In that case, (no Surinder Singh), it is clear you can no longer sponsor anyone on EU route unless you can invoke the McCarthy transitional arrangement dating from 2012.
What evidence do you have to present to HO that you can invoke it?

The reason you are confused by the form is because its asking for information assuming you are not a BC.
Because BCs cannot normally use this route!

[noajthan]

See http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... ml#p741843

Also http://www.mcgillandco.co.uk/Blog/2012/ ... gulations/

This rule also has significant implications for any EU citizen who decides to naturalize as a British citizen.

Once naturalized, EU free movement law will no longer apply to their family members.

Any family member will be required to enter the UK on the basis of traditional British law.

Ref https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... y-british/

Here's the deal breaker on RC form:

Your sponsor’s nationality and place of birth
2.8 Their current nationality (as stated in their passport or national identity card)
2.9 Do they currently hold, or have they ever held, any other nationality or citizenship

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _07_15.pdf