British Nationality could it be revoked -not free to marry.

[Casa]

Back to the initial question as we seem to have gone astray. The OP can have his British Citizenship taken away if he used deception in his application. The material question would be, at the time he made the application did he reasonably believe that he was still married? There is also the issue the he failed to mention a previous marriage, even if legally divorced.

Also consider that his wife may be committing an offence by trying to blackmail him under s21 of the Theft Act 1968.

Also the wife may be complicit in supporting a false application and guilty of entering into a bigamous marriage.

[Obie]

I don't think the thread went astray.

The debate was still centred around the question of when and in what circumstances the Secretary of State can revoke nationality and on whom the evidential burden lies, in justifying withdrawal or revocation.

As the topic is on same matter I am of the view that the thread has not gone astray.

[Amber]

Starting a debate which is irrelevant to the OP (he has dual nationality) is to me, going astray.

[Obie]

Maybe we may have to agree to disagree.

OP view was whether his citizenship can be revoked, and the law on the circumstances in which citizenship can be revoked and on whom the burden lies in such revocation was discussed.

It was clearly not a debate that is out of topic in my view, and I respect the fact that you are equally entitled to hold your view. As a moderator I will not seek to throw a debate that is out of topic.

Discussing section 40 (4A) , was in my opinion perfectly justified.

Similar evidential burden applies irrespective of whether it is revocation on the basis of fraud or discharging the burden on whether a person will be able to or there is a reasonable believe that they will gain another citizenship..

[Richard W]

The critical point, that I think we established, was that the OP's continued possession of Pakistani citizenship is irrelevant to whether he loses British citizenship because of a claim of fraud.

The OP's issues come down to whether (a) he is believed and (b) whether he should have mentioned his previous marriage in his application, given that he believed it to have been terminated. I don't recall a question about former marriages on the settlement application form, though I have seen evidence of dissolution of former marriages on lists of evidence that is to be supplied. The big problem is that the absence of adequate evidence that the first marriage had terminated should have alerted the OP to the fact that he was still married to his first wife. But what of the de facto relationship with the second wife - does that count for anything? If he had given full details of his first marriage, could he have settled on the basis of his relationship with his second wife despite the invalidity of their marriage?

Are there any children of the second marriage? Who do they live with?

[Casa]

He couldn't have settled on the basis of his 'marriage' to his British 'wife' as this marriage wouldn't be recognised under British law.

[Richard W]

Despite having lived together for 3 years?

[Casa]

It would require a different application as Unmarried Partners. Also consider the issue that the OP applied for British citizenship as the spouse of a British citizen.

[Amber]

Richard, I don't know what forms you've read but settlement forms based on having a British spouse/CP have always asked if the applicant or sponsor have ever been married before!

Issues are firstly they were not able to marry as he was never divorced so, the second marriage is legally a 'void' marriage and can duly be annulled that is, as if it never happened. Therefore, he wasn't eligible for settlement, nor citizenship under section 6(2).

Proving that the second wife knew about this is going to be very hard to prove, I suspect she wouldn't be prosecuted (burden of proof). However, he could be prosecuted, continued deception, throughout all applications.

If the HO receive a certificate of annulment from the second wife, they'll likely revoke the citizenship of the OP. There could have been an argument that he didn't know he wasn't legally divorced, however, withholding the previous marriage in its entirety in applications renders that argument a non starter IMHO.

I've also edited the title to be more specific.

[Richard W]

Richard, I don't know what forms you've read but settlement forms based on having a British spouse/CP have always asked if the applicant or sponsor have ever married.

To which the OP will have answered that he was married to the second wife. If there's a question about former spouses of the applicant, I couldn't find it on VAF4A of December 2013. There used to be a question about the sponsor's previous spouses, but that seems to have gone.

Issues are firstly they were not able to marry as he was never divorced so, the second marriage is legally a 'void' marriage and can duly be annulled that is, as if it never happened. Therefore, he wasn't eligible for settlement, nor citizenship under section 6(2).

Also consider the issue that the OP applied for British citizenship as the spouse of a British citizen.

Are you sure he isn't? You may know better, but according to PK-Legal's Laws of Pakistan Relating to Marriage, Divorce, Khulla (Judicial Divorce) and Maintenance, the second marriage was valid. Indeed, that same page makes me wonder if the first marriage had indeed been terminated!

However, there is the risk that the matrimonial offences (divorcing improperly, possibly taking an additional wife without consent) might make the OP not of good character. Given how often decree nisi is not followed by decree absolute in the UK with subsequent confusion as to marital status, the matter is arguable.

Proving that the second wife knew about this is going to be very hard to prove, I suspect she wouldn't be prosecuted (burden of proof). However, he could be prosecuted, continued deception, throughout all applications.

The first is a police matter. As to the second, would a jury accept that he must have been adequately acquainted with Pakistani law? I think this may very well be a case where ignorance of the law is a defence.

[Casa]

The first marriage didn't take place under Pakistani law. The OP writes "I was previously, married in USA" And it appears that his British 'wife' was domicile in the UK at the time of their marriage. "She happily moved to Pakistan as it was her first experience living abroad since her childhood."

[noajthan]

... married in USA but due to personal problems early in my marriage never applied for a divorce.

I was deported from there (USA) in March 2005.

Upon my arrival in Pakistan, I sent my previous wife a Pakistani divorce certificate (April 2005) at her residence address in USA.
I was under the assumption (call it my naivety or stupidity as I was only 22 at the time) I thought that was enough for the divorce to be settled.

Unfortunately, that is not the case and marriage is still valid. I was not aware of that until 2012 hence never declared it on my initial application for the UK sponsorship.

My wife was aware and knew my situation, she suggested not to mention my previous connection with USA in my UK application.

For past three years we have been having issues and My Mrs has decided to file for a divorce.
She is also blackmailing me that she will report to Home Office about my initial application,

This appears to be a catalogue of disasters, misdemeanours & worse (including bigamy, complicity in suppression of material facts, possibly including the fact of the US sojourn, plus the fact of & reasons for the deportation from USA) over the past 4 years.
This case is not about the odd typo in a document nor a single honest mistake nor even memory lapse.

[Casa]

+1 @Noajthan

[Amber]

Richard go and grab yourself a SET(M) form and read under relationship. Those questions have existed since conception.

You've totally misunderstood marriage law. The fact he failed to declare that he was ever married is evidence that he is dishonest and that avoiding the answer may help prove he didn't mention that he was already married because he was still legally married. Ignorance of the law is not a defence for criminal matters, which what this might be.

[Richard W]

The first marriage didn't take place under Pakistani law. The OP writes "I was previously, married in USA" And it appears that his British 'wife' was domicile in the UK at the time of their marriage. "She happily moved to Pakistan as it was her first experience living abroad since her childhood."

But the OP was domiciled in Pakistan at the times of both the attempted divorce and the putative second marriage. I don't see what the place of marriage or the domicile of the wives has to do with the matter.

[Richard W]

Richard go and grab yourself a SET(M) form and read under relationship. Those questions have existed since conception.

Are you the person to go to for questions on the content of forms? I'm having no joy in finding old forms on-line.

Given that the OP was asked about previous marriages on SET(M) in 2011, he does seem to be in trouble. Why isn't he being blackmailed about that as well?

I don't remember SET(M) in 2000 asking for documentary evidence of divorce. I should've been sweating about supplying stamped photocopies from a register, but I just don't remember any such worry.

You've totally misunderstood marriage law.

I must admit I've been wondering about the use of a polygamous marriage to come to the UK. All I can remember for sure is that nowadays only one wife at a time can use it to come to the UK, but I wasn't sure how it should have applied to the OP.

[Wanderer]

Richard go and grab yourself a SET(M) form and read under relationship. Those questions have existed since conception.

Are you the person to go to for questions on the content of forms? I'm having no joy in finding old forms on-line.

Given that the OP was asked about previous marriages on SET(M) in 2011, he does seem to be in trouble. Why isn't he being blackmailed about that as well?

I don't remember SET(M) in 2000 asking for documentary evidence of divorce. I should've been sweating about supplying stamped photocopies from a register, but I just don't remember any such worry.

You've totally misunderstood marriage law.

I must admit I've been wondering about the use of a polygamous marriage to come to the UK. All I can remember for sure is that nowadays only one wife at a time can use it to come to the UK, but I wasn't sure how it should have applied to the OP.

Not one wife at a time, one wife only unless the other has been divorced (or widowed-off, not advocating the use of foul play mind!) - legally and not the Talaq one.

[CR001]

My two pence worth.

When I applied for my spouse visa on FLR(M) in 2010, I was required to provide my husband's divorce decree as proof that his previous marriage was dissolved and he was free to marry me in 2007. Had to produce it again for Set(M) in 2012 when I applied for ILR.

We also included it with my initial entry clearance application from South Africa when I applied for my UK Ancestry visa in 2008, even though it was not required.

[noajthan]

This is not about polygamy. Anyway, polygamy is only tolerated by UK if legal where the polygamist is legally domiciled & that is where such union takes place.

So, no dice in UK & I think not in (most) US states.

Hard to see how anyone savvy enough to live, work & marry in a Western country (US) can think a local Pakistan divorce can overturn a marriage contracted in US jurisdiction.

When I brought my fiancee to UK she wasn't even permitted to leave her country until I proved I was single.
You try getting equivalent of a 'Cenomar' here in UK!

With such hoops & hurdles to overcome it's quite hard to let a previous marriage slip your mind;
even if someone forgot they would be surely questioned, repeatedly, by a registrar, a priest, a caseworker & etc.

[Richard W]

I don't see what the place of marriage or the domicile of the wives has to do with the matter.

Ah! Now I do. If the second wife was domiciled in England (but what if Scotland or Northern Ireland?), then the marriage wasn't valid in English law. (Would the incapacity extend to Pakistani law?)

However, I deduce that the second marriage took place in Pakistan. It's not clear what nationalities the British wife held. My guess is that she was originally, and remained, Pakistani. Now, if she was a Pakistani living in Pakistan, might not she have been domiciled in Pakistan?

asa777, clarification would be helpful here.

[noajthan]

Ah! Now I do. If the second wife was domiciled in England (but what if Scotland or Northern Ireland?), then the marriage wasn't valid in English law. (Would the incapacity extend to Pakistani law?)

However, I deduce that the second marriage took place in Pakistan. It's not clear what nationalities the British wife held. My guess is that she was originally, and remained, Pakistani. Now, if she was a Pakistani living in Pakistan, might not she have been domiciled in Pakistan?

asa777, clarification would be helpful here.

OP not been active since Feb 8 (so maybe heard enough) but originally stated wife moved to Pakistan; she must have been domiciled elsewhere (UK most likely).

[Casa]

The first marriage didn't take place under Pakistani law. The OP writes "I was previously, married in USA" And it appears that his British 'wife' was domicile in the UK at the time of their marriage. "She happily moved to Pakistan as it was her first experience living abroad since her childhood."

@RichardW Actually I would assume that the wife held British nationality at the time of the marriage, as the OP mentions marrying 'his British wife'...and you seen to have missed my point in the quote above....note the move to Pakistan after the marriage was her first experience of living abroad since her childhood.

[Richard W]

Hard to see how anyone savvy enough to live, work & marry in a Western country (US) can think a local Pakistan divorce can overturn a marriage contracted in US jurisdiction.

In Pakistani law, why would a Pakistani divorce not terminate the marriage of a male Pakistani resident and domiciled in Pakistan?

OP not been active since Feb 8 (so maybe heard enough) but originally stated wife moved to Pakistan; she must have been domiciled elsewhere (UK most likely).

The account is:

I met my current Mrs (A naturalized British citizen) in Pakistan back in June 2005 and in October 2005 we decided to get married. I was happy in Pakistan running my Software/BPO company and did not want to move to UK. She happily moved to Pakistan as it was her first experience living abroad since her childhood.

We need a finer time line to determine her domicile and when it changed. She may have been in Pakistan continuously from June to October 2005, and indeed up to the wedding, whenever that took place (possibly as early as the October).

This looks like a big mess, and it may well be that the OP's marital status differs from country to country. I fear he needs legal help even if he is believed.

[noajthan]

He may have been domiciled in US at time of 1st marriage;
1st wedding was in US! not in Pakistan - does Pakistan have jurisdiction over US wedding contracts?

I think we or the legal ramifications have scared OP off.

[Casa]

To be honest Noajthan, I suspect the OP nodded off some time ago.....I admit I found my eyelids closing now and then....