Citizenship though EU Member or Wife of British Citizen

[RoyalFlush]

Hi

I am hoping for some help please. I am fully naturalised and a British citizen now thanks to all the help on this board.

My wife is Polish and is wishing to become a British citizen. She has been in the UK since 2006. She has worked up until 2013 and since been a carer for our son. And I am not sure if she registered for WRS or not.

I would like to know the easiest route to British citizenship for my wife. Should she apply either as:
- the wife of a British citizen OR
- as a EU member

I would be most grateful for the any details on the process for the best option.

Thanks in advance

[RoyalFlush]

Oh, sorry, I forgot to mention that we had a civil marriage in the UK just over 3 years ago.

[CR001]

She needs confirmation of permanent residence before she can even think about applying for citizenship, regardless of whether she applies under the 5 year qualifying person EU route or as spouse of British citizen route.

When you say 'carer', do you mean just a normal 'stay at home mum'? Carer obviously can mean different things with different health situations.

[noajthan]

EU route seems appropriate.

From early days in UK (2006+) wife would need to have been properly & fully registered on WRS.
Something to dig into.

She may well have automatically acquired PR in her own right, as a worker, by sometime around 2011/12.

If relying on more recent activity then if a 'self-sufficient' person your wife will have needed CSI in place.

Has your wife had any prolonged absences from UK since 2006?
You mention a son, so how about any period of time on maternity leave?

[RoyalFlush]

Hi

Thank you for the quick response. She is a carer for my child who was diagnosed with cancer when he turned 1 yr old.

Would I be correct in thinking that she will need to complete the following document for PR application:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-pr - Application for a document certifying permanent residence or permanent residence card: form EEA (PR).

Would she need to do the Life in the UK test and English Language test after applying for the above?

Presumably she will not need to wait 12 months before applying for citizenship?

Thanks again

[RoyalFlush]

Hi

I believe that one can apply for PR on the 1st of May 2016 (the WRS scheme was closed on the last of April) as WRS was abolished 5 years prior.

My son was born Jan 2013 and my wife stopped working about 4 months prior to this. She has not worked since. She has not had prolonged periods outside the UK.

Thank you very much

[noajthan]

Hi

Thank you for the quick response. She is a carer for my child who was diagnosed with cancer when he turned 1 yr old.

Would I be correct in thinking that she will need to complete the following document for PR application:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-pr - Application for a document certifying permanent residence or permanent residence card: form EEA (PR).

Would she need to do the Life in the UK test and English Language test after applying for the above?

Presumably she will not need to wait 12 months before applying for citizenship?

Thanks again

Yes that is the form.

It is a monster form - note: its not a legal requirement to use that form if you can find an earlier (simpler) version.
Links to other forms to be found in forum if you search.

A carer is fine but for wife's PR clock to be running wife will have needed CSI in place since 2013 (or else the time won't count towards PR)..

Suggest you explore her earlier years of work & dig into question of WRS.
PR may have been acquired before - its not just about the last 5/6 years.

This is Home Office you are dealing with so don't presume anything.
The spouse of a BC has no need to wait to be free from immigration time restrictions for an additional 12 months.
So once wife has acquired PR & PR card (& assuming all other requirements for privilege of citizenship have been/can be met), she could apply to naturalise asap.

Yes, LITUK & proof of English will be required before applying to naturalise.
Check AN form & accompanying guidance.

[RoyalFlush]

Hi

Thank you for wealth of information. I have been looking at the form and can't figure out which category of application to chose as listed below. I've been able to rule out the following: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6. That leaves option 2 or 7. My wife has been in the UK since 2006 but stopped work in 2012. We are legally married in the UK. Can someone please advise which category (of 2 and 7) would be appropriate and the least hassle?


1. I’ve previously been issued with a document certifying permanent residence, permanent
residence card, or equivalent document, and wish to replace that document because it’s
been lost or stolen, or renew it because it’s expired.
Complete sections 4, 17, 18 and 19 only. - wife has not previously been issued with such a document

2. I’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as an EEA national qualified person,
the family member or extended family member of a qualified person, or a combination of
these.
Complete sections 5, 9, 16, 17, 18 and 19. (If you are or have been a family member or
extended family member, also complete the relevant section(s) as indicated in question 3.2
below.)

3. I’m an EEA national who ceased activity (stopped work or self-employment) due to
retirement, permanent incapacity or because I’m now active as a worker or self-employed
person in another EEA state.
Complete sections 5, 7, 9, 16, 17, 18, and 19. - wife has not retired, is not incapacitated, not emplyed in another EEA state

4. I’m the family member or extended family member of an EEA national who ceased activity.
Complete sections 5, 7, 9, 16, 17, 18, and 19 (and the relevant section(s) as indicated in
question 3.2 below). - I have not ceased activity (though my brain might have )

5. I’m the family member or extended family member of an EEA national former worker or selfemployed
person who has died.
Complete sections 5, 6, 9, 16, 17, 18, and 19 (and the relevant section(s) as indicated in
question 3.2 below). - I'm still alive (I think )

6.I’ve retained my right of residence after my EEA national family member died or left the UK,
or their marriage or civil partnership ended in divorce, annulment or dissolution, and I’ve lived
in the UK for a continuous period of five years (including time spent as a family member).
Complete sections 5, 8, 9, 16, 17, 18 and 19 (and the relevant section(s) as indicated in
question 3.2 below). - I'm still alive and not divorced (yet )

7.I’m the family member of a British citizen who exercised their free movement rights in another
EEA state before returning to the UK and I’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of five
years as their family member (‘Surinder Singh’ route).
Complete sections 5, 10, 17, 18 and 19 (and the relevant sections as indicated in question
3.2 below).

[ohara]

For an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights as a worker you would use option 2. Options 5 and 6 are for retained right of residence I believe. Option 7 is for people using Surinder Singh route which you are not. As you can see, the EEA(PR) form is 4 forms rolled into one, which is why a lot of people get confused. You could have a look at an old version of the EEA3 form, it's much simpler:

https://portal.mpsv.cz/eures/podminky/b ... /eea31.pdf

Note: you still need to pay the £65 fee (which didn't exist back when that form was created), so it's a good idea to print out the payment page from the EEA(PR) form and include that.

[noajthan]

Its (probably) #2.

#7 is for those who have taken Surinder Singh route via a.n.other EU country - you'd probably remember if you had done that.

Remember you are not the sponsor; wife applies in her own right - she is the main applicant.

I assume your child may be British already so s/he does not need inclusion either.

[RoyalFlush]

Awesome, thank you.

I though I was the sponsor - thank for clarifying that I am not. So, me being British does not give me the option of getting her residency via that route?

Yes, my son has British citizenship as a result of me having obtained my British citizenship.

Thanks again

[RoyalFlush]

Thank you for pointing me in the direction of the older form. I will review.

[noajthan]

Awesome, thank you.

I though I was the sponsor - thank for clarifying that I am not. So, me being British does not give me the option of getting her residency via that route?

Yes, my son has British citizenship as a result of me having obtained my British citizenship.

Thanks again

No, wife is on EU migration journey in own right.
That's why its important she has all proof of exercising treaty rights - including proof of WRS.

The only benefit from being spouse of BC is she can apply to naturalise sooner, ie no need to have had settled status (PR) for 12 months first.
And, for spouse of BC, only 3 years residency needs to be proven for naturalisation (even though it takes 5 years to become settled!).
Anyway worry about all that later.

Focus on PR card for now.
You will need several dry runs with the form (use your version of choice) after you collate all the documentary supporting evidence.

[RoyalFlush]

Once again, thank you very very much.

Can you help me with the following please:

1. My wife has been in the UK since 2006 - meaning 10 years in the UK. Can I chose any 5 years for the qualifying period? I ask this because it might be easier to prove employment in the earlier 5 years (she has not been working since around 2012).

2. For periods that she was not employed and married to me, can I provide my details to satisfy this requirement in the older form: For time spent as an economically self-sufficient person, a bank statement or similar document showing funds available to you or to a family member, or a document confirming a family member’s employment, and evidence of comprehensive sickness insurance for you and your family members.

3. In the above, will I get away without sickness insurance? I would have thought that since the NHS covered people from EEA, this would not be required.

I am really surprised that UKBA will allow one to use an older form. The older form clearly states that "Our application forms change periodically. If you obtain this form some time before applying, please check that it is still the version which must be used when you are ready to apply."
Having been through the whole process before, I'm am very nervous about giving UKBA an excuse to take the money and reject the application. They are a funny lot. I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on my paranoia

[noajthan]

Once again, thank you very very much.

Can you help me with the following please:

1. My wife has been in the UK since 2006 - meaning 10 years in the UK. Can I chose any 5 years for the qualifying period? I ask this because it might be easier to prove employment in the earlier 5 years (she has not been working since around 2012).

2. For periods that she was not employed and married to me, can I provide my details to satisfy this requirement in the older form: For time spent as an economically self-sufficient person, a bank statement or similar document showing funds available to you or to a family member, or a document confirming a family member’s employment, and evidence of comprehensive sickness insurance for you and your family members.

3. In the above, will I get away without sickness insurance? I would have thought that since the NHS covered people from EEA, this would not be required.

I am really surprised that UKBA will allow one to use an older form. The older form clearly states that "Our application forms change periodically. If you obtain this form some time before applying, please check that it is still the version which must be used when you are ready to apply."
Having been through the whole process before, I'm am very nervous about giving UKBA an excuse to take the money and reject the application. They are a funny lot. I would be grateful to hear your thoughts on my paranoia

1) Yes.

2) Think so, yes.

Supply as much good (if not unimpeachable) supporting evidence as possible really; your aim here is to deny HO any/all 'wriggle room'.
Paranoia is good - that means you will get it right.

3) No.
CSI is a must for self-sufficient status. Otherwise the PR clock will have been stopped.

If that's the case you need to find another continuous 5-year period that qualifies.
- this may take several dry-runs.


It's not UKBA anymore, it's Home Office (HO).
fyi - HO gather way too much information on their form - well over what is required under EU law.
The questions on benefits is a case in point.

However even their guidance states:

It’s not mandatory to use the EEA(PR) application form but it will assist us in dealing with your application more efficiently if you do.

Even if you choose not to use this form, you must pay the specified fee, submit the relevant supporting documents and (if you’re a non-EEA national) give your biometric information

You may even go commando & apply by letter if you wish to be hardcore.

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... nts_v1.pdf

[ohara]

Or use the EEA3 form

[RoyalFlush]

Ok, stupid questions coming up so apologies in advance for being thick...

It's not going to be possible for my wife to prove 5 years in employment and she did not have CSI. Having looked through the newer form, why can't I be her sponsor and let her apply as my spouse under the following category:

2. I’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as an EEA national qualified person,
the family member or extended family member of a qualified person, or a combination of
these.
Complete sections 5, 9, 16, 17, 18 and 19. (If you are or have been a family member or
extended family member, also complete the relevant section(s) as indicated in question 3.2
below.)

Why is my "on EU migration journey in own right."? Surely I have the option to apply for her PR by way of us being married for over 3 years?

Thanks in advance

[CR001]

Because to apply for citizenship via any route, permanent residence is required. As you are British in the UK, you cannot exercise treaty rights in the UK and therefore cannot be her sponsor as you are not an EU citizen in this case, you are only a British citizen.

As she is an EU citizen, she is not dependent on you for immigration purposes and needs to qualify by exercising treaty rights and be a qualified person herself for 5 years, in order to attain permanent residence.

To get PR or ILR through the UK immigration route, they both require 5 years residence.

There is no shortcut, you cannot be her sponsor as she is not in the UK under the UK immigration rules with a visa as your spouse.

[ohara]

Having looked through the newer form, why can't I be her sponsor and let her apply as my spouse

You cannot exercise EEA treaty rights in a country of which you are already a citizen.

As Obie says, getting ILR under UK route will take 5 years too, but it is substantially more expensive.

[RoyalFlush]

Thank you so very much. So had she not been an EU citizen, I presume I could have been her sponsor?

As she cannot prove a full 5 years worth of employment, she will most likely need to start work again to be able to show employment for 5 years. Possibly through self employment or I can employ her through a limited company to be able to produce the proof. Would I be correct in assuming that the 5 years need not be contiguous?

Just to help me understand - exactly what am I trying to prove to the HO - that she was employed for the 5 years or that she was in the country for 5 years... or both? Surely if it is only 5 years of being in the country (and possibly being self sufficient) then proof can be in the form of my salary without CSI?

Thank you for helping me understand.

[secret.simon]

Just to help me understand - exactly what am I trying to prove to the HO - that she was employed for the 5 years or that she was in the country for 5 years... or both? Surely if it is only 5 years of being in the country (and possibly being self sufficient) then proof can be in the form of my salary without CSI?

Neither. What you (or rather she) have to prove to the Home Office is that she is a qualified person (Section 6 of the EEA Regulations) by exercising the treaty rights enumerated in Section 4 of the EEA Regulations.

Being self-sufficient and being a student has additional requirements apart from just residence.

I suggest reading the whole document through, with a focus on those specific sections.

Be aware that EU law is different in operation from British law. It has no common sense approach or discretion. It is a purely tick-box exercise and completely binary. If you meet all the requirements, you can't be refused. If you fail any single requirement, you must be refused.

PS: Does your employment provide you with private health insurance and does that cover your wife? That could count as CSI.

[noajthan]

Thank you so very much. So had she not been an EU citizen, I presume I could have been her sponsor?

As she cannot prove a full 5 years worth of employment, she will most likely need to start work again to be able to show employment for 5 years. Possibly through self employment or I can employ her through a limited company to be able to produce the proof. Would I be correct in assuming that the 5 years need not be contiguous?

Just to help me understand - exactly what am I trying to prove to the HO - that she was employed for the 5 years or that she was in the country for 5 years... or both? Surely if it is only 5 years of being in the country (and possibly being self sufficient) then proof can be in the form of my salary without CSI?

Thank you for helping me understand.

Any work has to be genuine & effective.
If you set up a company it has to be real work. As simple as that.
Oh and with adequate documentary supporting evidence to support the case.

You haven't really got your head round this free movement stuff yet.
The treaty rights have to be exercised continuously (contiguously). Or else the PR clock will stop.

You can get up to speed here - it shows the current state of play:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

Self-sufficiency requires health insurance in place.
Court cases have tried and failed to replace the requirement for CSI on the basis of some sort of natural-right and access to NHS.
So CSI is required if the qualified person is claiming to be self-sufficient.

[ohara]

Thank you so very much. So had she not been an EU citizen, I presume I could have been her sponsor?

Yes, but it would have been considerably more expensive for her to be here. I believe the spouse visa she would have required is somewhere around £950 (increasing to £1200 this month). There is also a minimum income requirement for her sponsor (you).

For the PR application she needs to prove both residence and exercising treaty rights. We have already established that as you are a British citizen, you cannot be her sponsor and she must do this in her own right.

You can use any continuous 5 year period of being a qualified person (and it can be a mix of the categories as long as it is continuous). For example if you have proof of her working from March 2012 onwards (and she is still a qualified person), she could apply in March 2017.

I'm not sure if it's possible, and hopefully others will be along to advise soon, but once she has completed 10 years stay in the UK she could apply for ILR based on long residence. The downside to this is she must have already passed the Life in the UK test and have sufficient proof of English language (either a degree or an accepted English test at level B1 or higher). The application for ILR is also £1500 at the moment and increasing to £1875 on the 18th March.

[RoyalFlush]

Hi

My wife has only been working for 3 years that she has been in the UK. Afterwhich, she has been a carer for my son. So, as I understand it, she would need to work for another 2 years to be able to qualify for PR.

I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but is one entitled to PR automatically after 10 years under 'long residence' (without needing to show that one has worked for a 5 year period)? The conditions are listed as:

"Your 10-year qualifying period starts from either:
- when you arrived in the UK with a visa
- when you were given permission to stay in the UK"

As visas and permission do not apply to EU citizens (which my wife is), I am not sure if this 'long residence' is applicable?

Thanks in advance