Test case Ireland blocking 7,000 C Visas for Surinder Singh

[el patron]

Report on first day of Irish judicial review hearing makes for difficult reading, 7,000 c-visa applications currently blocked - https://m.facebook.com/ImmigrationAdvic ... =3&theater

[Obie]

Disgusting . The department of Justice should be ashamed of itself, helping the UK government in this disgraceful way.

Furthermore the problem appears to be confined to Pakistani cases, which I find most distasteful form of beloved.

All to help Cameron, who is not even worth the time of the day.

This reputational damage and a gross violation of community law, is a matter that has not even factored in the Irish Government's decision.

The court most start granting relief without delay.

This is a legally compelling in where relieve must be granted as a matter of urgency.

[el patron]

Obie, I have clients with family in India, Tunisia and Jamaica currently waiting, so I don't think it is solely delays from applications submitted in Pakistan, though that may be the dominant location of delayed applications. No break-down was given. The argument that they still received an accelerated process was based on the fact that those applicants did not have to show the evidences that a non-eu visa applicant did! Ciaran Toal was counsel for applicant.

[Obie]

I have dealt with 2 filipino , 1 Thai, and 2 Nigerian cases.

All dealt with in weeks.

I know India is a problem aswell, but the Pakistani problem is more profound.

[itsmanu]

Is there any way to track the application?

[Shakey]

My wife received a Directive 2004/38/EC tourist C visa within 10 days last month for Ireland so it really looks as though processing is down to location and/or nationality. I have no idea if it had any bearing on the issuance but I provided evidence of my salary which is many times over the required UK limit.

[bmqr]

Our application was submitted in Karachi, Pakistan on 10th August and we have been waiting since. It is indeed frustrating as to why they are taking that long but I would be more interested in knowing how can we address this issue really..

Any moderators or learned ones can make a new thread as to what are the steps one should take to deal with them over this issue?

[Obie]

By Virtue of Order 84, a person may approach the Irish Court and seek an order of madamus, compelling the Irish Authorities to issue the visa they had applied for under the accelerated procedure provided for in Article 5(2) and the S.I. No. 548/2015 - European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2015.
.

Minister bound by regulation 4(3)(b) in the case of a Qualifying Family member and 5(8)(b) in the case of Permitted Family member, to issue such visa as part of an accelerated procedure.

[el patron]

By Virtue of Order 84, a person may approach the Irish Court and seek an order of madamus, compelling the Irish Authorities to issue the visa they had applied for under the accelerated procedure provided for in Article 5(2) and the S.I. No. 548/2015 - European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) Regulations 2015.
.

Minister bound by regulation 4(3)(b) in the case of a Qualifying Family member and 5(8)(b) in the case of Permitted Family member, to issue such visa as part of an accelerated procedure.

Yes but all the applications fall to be decided under the previous regulations. The Respondent say accelerated procedure can mean something other than timescale, i.e. the application of less stringent documentary evidences and financial requirements etc

[Obie]

Well you are a member of the legal fraternity . Don't you find that explanation so outrageous , to the point that a reasonable court will have little difficulty in rejecting it.

The Directive speak for itself the ordinary meaning of accelerated procedure speak for itself.

I appreciate that the old regulations may apply, but there is no fundamental difference between the old and new regulations and in any event the court will be bound by Article 5 (2) of directive 2004/38EC.

[faisal07]

I have been monitoring the visa Decisions almost every week since My son-in-law submitted his Visa application. My son in law is from Pakistan, the application was submitted in June 2015.
I was specifically looking for spouse visa application "Join/acc.EU Cit (Spouse)" therefore was looking at the maximum application number so I could get an idea when my son-in-laws application would be processed. I started to record this information. After a few weeks In July I was getting concerned so started to measure total applications approved to see if there was drop in applications being processed.
What I found was that in July 2015 going on until the end of Aug the number of approved visa applications were in double figures with a dip in August, and then at the end a significant drop to a couple of approved applications and in some weeks zero approved don’t know what the numbers were prior to July so they could have been much higher, what was clear is that the number of applications being processed had reduced to a trickle.
Increasingly suspicious , in November I started to also monitor rejected cases. More cases rejected than approved though still low numbers though
What i also found was that applications were not being processed in application order number. My son in laws application was in the 2,12xx,xxx range, (I've blocked out the exact number) and clearly application submitted after had been approved. I suspect applications are being processed sequentially per office of submission, not based on all applicants therefore applicant from regions other than the 'problem' areas are being processed quickly as evident from the messages on the forum
Both my daughter and Son in law had written to INIS on a number of occasions, as well as being told that applications were being done in order of application, clearly misleading, they also told that there was a backlog and applications would be done in a maximum of 12 weeks if no problems were found.
Clearly now its Feb 2016 more than the four weeks or 12 weeks and still no approval. There may well be unprecedented number of applications, however it appears no attempt has been made to redistribute or allocate additional resource to meet the increased workload, in fact the opposite seems to be true. Where even less applications are being processed further exacerbating the backlog. So it comes as no surprise to be reading that there is a 7000 case backlog!
The average combined number of approved and rejected applications per week appear to be in single figures - I estimate a total of 5. Even if you triple that figure it would take 10 years to clear the backlog!
At his rate in effect citizens of EU, especially with spouse from the India/Pakistan are not able to exercise their rights in a practical timeframe, never mind accelerated procedre - so in effect a backdoor immigration block

[faisal07]

The actual number of cases approved that are 'Join/acc.EU Cit (Spouse)'
13/07/2015 19
20/07/2015 15
27/07/2015 12
03/08/2015 7
10/08/2015 7
24/08/2015 11
31/08/2015 2
07/09/2015 4
21/09/2015 2
29/09/2015 2
05/10/2015 0
12/10/2015 4
19/10/2015 2
09/11/2015 4
16/11/2015 0
23/11/2015 3
30/11/2015 2
07/12/2015 2
17/12/2015 0
21/12/2015 1
28/12/2015 1
04/01/2016 1
11/01/2016 1
18/01/2015 0
25/01/2015 2
01/02/2015 3
08/02/2015 3
15/02/2016 1
22/02/2016 1

[Slkking1]

I apply for short stay c visa as a family member of eu citizen dependent visa in November n it's more then 12 weeks still waiting wts wrong wid them

[Shakey]

The actual number of cases approved that are 'Join/acc.EU Cit (Spouse)'
13/07/2015 19
20/07/2015 15
27/07/2015 12
03/08/2015 7
10/08/2015 7
24/08/2015 11
31/08/2015 2
07/09/2015 4
21/09/2015 2
29/09/2015 2
05/10/2015 0
12/10/2015 4
19/10/2015 2
09/11/2015 4
16/11/2015 0
23/11/2015 3
30/11/2015 2
07/12/2015 2
17/12/2015 0
21/12/2015 1
28/12/2015 1
04/01/2016 1
11/01/2016 1
18/01/2015 0
25/01/2015 2
01/02/2015 3
08/02/2015 3
15/02/2016 1
22/02/2016 1

I presume these were processed in Dublin? There are a number of other processing centers around the world. As I said my wife had hers processed in 10 days.

[chris1983]

Yes it was quick for us as well, our join EU spouse visa was approved within 7 days, via the Mexican embassy.

[Shakey]

Yes it was quick for us as well, our join EU spouse visa was approved within 7 days, via the Mexican embassy.

This is clearly targeting the same nationalities as the UK's £18600 rule. Looks like Theresa May put the talk to on Frances Fitzgerald at some point last year.

[faisal07]

The actual number of cases approved that are 'Join/acc.EU Cit (Spouse)'
13/07/2015 19
20/07/2015 15
27/07/2015 12
03/08/2015 7
10/08/2015 7
24/08/2015 11
31/08/2015 2
07/09/2015 4
21/09/2015 2
29/09/2015 2
05/10/2015 0
12/10/2015 4
19/10/2015 2
09/11/2015 4
16/11/2015 0
23/11/2015 3
30/11/2015 2
07/12/2015 2
17/12/2015 0
21/12/2015 1
28/12/2015 1
04/01/2016 1
11/01/2016 1
18/01/2015 0
25/01/2015 2
01/02/2015 3
08/02/2015 3
15/02/2016 1
22/02/2016 1

I presume these were processed in Dublin? There are a number of other processing centers around the world. As I said my wife had hers processed in 10 days.

Application made online, paperwork including passport submitted in Islamabad (Gerrys) a few days later and then they forwarded onto Dublin some 10 days later, and then nothing. My understanding apart from slight variations at the regional centres, everything comes to Dublin for processing. I used the following link which is a list of Visa Decisions posted every week Tuesday . I identify the relevant cases using "Join/acc.EU Cit (Spouse)" and any rejected cases using "2004/38/EC" as a search string in the relevant PDF that can be found at the bottom of this page http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Visa%20Decisions

[Shakey]

The actual number of cases approved that are 'Join/acc.EU Cit (Spouse)'
13/07/2015 19
20/07/2015 15
27/07/2015 12
03/08/2015 7
10/08/2015 7
24/08/2015 11
31/08/2015 2
07/09/2015 4
21/09/2015 2
29/09/2015 2
05/10/2015 0
12/10/2015 4
19/10/2015 2
09/11/2015 4
16/11/2015 0
23/11/2015 3
30/11/2015 2
07/12/2015 2
17/12/2015 0
21/12/2015 1
28/12/2015 1
04/01/2016 1
11/01/2016 1
18/01/2015 0
25/01/2015 2
01/02/2015 3
08/02/2015 3
15/02/2016 1
22/02/2016 1

I presume these were processed in Dublin? There are a number of other processing centers around the world. As I said my wife had hers processed in 10 days.

Application made online, paperwork including passport submitted in Islamabad (Gerrys) a few days later and then they forwarded onto Dublin some 10 days later, and then nothing. My understanding apart from slight variations at the regional centres, everything comes to Dublin for processing. I used the following link which is a list of Visa Decisions posted every week Tuesday . I identify the relevant cases using "Join/acc.EU Cit (Spouse)" and any rejected cases using "2004/38/EC" as a search string in the relevant PDF that can be found at the bottom of this page http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Visa%20Decisions

Clearly Pakistan is one of the countries which are 'blocked' at the moment. This is almost certainly due to Uk governmental pressure on Ireland.

Other processing centers also post visa decisions not just Dublin. UAE for example:

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/uae/ou ... n-reports/

In all honestly unless the European court throws out the freedom of movement change regarding non eu spouses I suspect very few of these visas will ever get processed.

[griffith]

I'm not sure but looks like alots of Pakistanis have migrated from Britain to Ireland just for the sake of their family members immigration from pakistan to Ireland, and many of them have applied for this visa including permitted family members herethough in the beginning of february the irish immigration has tightened the permitted family members visa process.I have heard and seen many of the UK and ireland based solicitors who are charging thousands of euros from their clients in order to apply and do the documentation of their family members just for the sake of EU1 application form.
I think as per the new law the person applying for this visa on the basis of their EU citizen family member should be resident in the Republic of Ireland for atleast months . Moderators should know better.

[bmqr]

What difference does it make even if you were to accept the assumption that alot of individuals who happen to be originated from Pakistan moved to Ireland for the sake of their family members immigration. Mind you those individuals possibly have dual nationality and if this is an option available to them, why wouldn't they use it for their benefit? wouldn't you do the same?? I am trying to get the sense of your message here as to what is the point of your objection?

[el patron]

I'm not sure but looks like alots of Pakistanis have migrated from Britain to Ireland just for the sake of their family members immigration from pakistan to Ireland, and many of them have applied for this visa including permitted family members herethough in the beginning of february the irish immigration has tightened the permitted family members visa process.I have heard and seen many of the UK and ireland based solicitors who are charging thousands of euros from their clients in order to apply and do the documentation of their family members just for the sake of EU1 application form.
I think as per the new law the person applying for this visa on the basis of their EU citizen family member should be resident in the Republic of Ireland for atleast months . Moderators should know better.

These applications were all made under the 2005 regulations and not the new 2015 ones.

[Shakey]

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/INIS%20-% ... 202015.pdf

Operation Vantage gets a mention in INIS's annual review. Appears they are indeed targeting Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi's.

[el patron]

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/INIS%20-% ... 202015.pdf

Operation Vantage gets a mention in INIS's annual review. Appears they are indeed targeting Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi's.

thanks for that it is not my imagination!

[Obie]

It was not much of a surprise, it was always clear from the responses that the department were targeting certain nationalities and this itself is a breach of EU LAW.

What they mean by statistically improbable marriages is clearly beyond my understanding.

Perhaps I am not too smart.

The kind of outward discrimination is far different from how the UKVI behaves.

[That Zimbo Lad]

It's quite disappointing that INIS and Fitzgerald have resorted to these sort of dirty measures of systematic stalling. Quite clearly they are now operating much similarly to the UK Home Office.
I applied for an EU accompany visa in Sept 15 and had set an initial deadline of January 16. Sure enough we didn't get the visa, the judicial review and lawyer route didn't work because of this Test case scenario and writing to them yielded no results.

Ended up pulling out our documents and applied for a Schengen at the end of Feb. Got our docs a week later and applied for the Schengen visa at our local French Embassy in Harare Zimbabwe. Visa was issued within 3 working days although that was probably because I applied as a tourist. Now we are in France and we have kickstarted our Surrinder Singh to the UK .

That would be my advice for anyone thinking of applying to Ireland for Surrinder Singh. APPLY AS A TOURIST. Don't mention anything about treaty rights and once you get to Ireland well the process is quite straightforward. Sure you will have to show more financial requirements and prob have to book Itenaries and hotels, but I think if you are serious about SS that should not be an issue. Otherwise Plan B is Schengen to mainland EU.