Naturalization application late submitted - Royal Mail Fault

[RiteshAryal]

Can you please share your ideas to resolve this issue.

Background
- New fee rule applies from 18 / 03 / 2016 ie. £1231
- To beat additional fee change (from 18/03/2016), AN Form sent on 16/3/2016 (Next Day Guaranteed Service - Royalmail).
- Fee paid was £1005 per person only.
- Royalmail failed to reached the destination (Liverpool office next day).
- Documents reached Liverpool on 18th / 03 / 2016 (instead on 17 / 03 / 2016)

Problem
- HomeOffice is asking for new fee because documents reached 1 day late and that is because Royal mail failed to reach on 17th / 03 / 2016 EVEN IF the documents was sent 2 days before.

Question
- Ignoring the fact that, the Royal mail did one day late delivery, should Home Office consider the date of receive is 17th by default?
- Should I ask Royal mail to compensate for being late to reached the destination on time ?

Elite please suggest your experience...

Thanks in advance.

[CR001]

You will need to take it up with Royal Mail. What time did you post it on the 16th?

Date of application is the date that HO physically receives it. Whether your choice of mailing service messed it up is not HOs problem.

[wildstreak]

Hi,

They just got the application today. Are they already asking you for the new fee?

[Wanderer]

Can you please share your ideas to resolve this issue.

Background
- New fee rule applies from 18 / 03 / 2016 ie. £1231
- To beat additional fee change (from 18/03/2016), AN Form sent on 16/3/2016 (Next Day Guaranteed Service - Royalmail).
- Fee paid was £1005 per person only.
- Royalmail failed to reached the destination (Liverpool office next day).
- Documents reached Liverpool on 18th / 03 / 2016 (instead on 17 / 03 / 2016)

Problem
- HomeOffice is asking for new fee because documents reached 1 day late and that is because Royal mail failed to reach on 17th / 03 / 2016 EVEN IF the documents was sent 2 days before.

Question
- Ignoring the fact that, the Royal mail did one day late delivery, should Home Office consider the date of receive is 17th by default?
- Should I ask Royal mail to compensate for being late to reached the destination on time ?

Elite please suggest your experience...

Thanks in advance.

1. Why did you leave it so late?

2. Did you send Guaranteed Next Day Delivery?

3. Have you read the Post Office T&C's?

[noajthan]

...

Question
- Ignoring the fact that, the Royal mail did one day late delivery, should Home Office consider the date of receive is 17th by default?
- Should I ask Royal mail to compensate for being late to reached the destination on time ?

Elite please suggest your experience...

Thanks in advance.

Why would HO consider they received an application on 17 if they did not physically receive it until 18. It makes no sense.

Royal Mail won't compensate the fee difference. You might get a book of stamps.

To have been sure your option should have been to apply via NCS; date of NCS interview equals date of application.

[RiteshAryal]

Thanks guyzy for you valued suggestion.

To @CR001:
It was done early evening around after 3pm (16/3/2016) .
Can Royal Mail pay back the price difference as compensation ?

To @wildstreak:
We called them to request about the situations and the replay was "have to pay the price difference"

To @Wanderer:
1. Just came to know about the new fee changes couple of days ago. So hurried to did it.
2. Yes Guaranteed Next Day.
3. Not read that yet.

To @Noajthan:
Well, In fact we didnot have much time to go with NCS and literally trusted the Royal Mail next day delivery system (as everybody usually does). And I was hoping that it would reach on 17th / 3 / 2016 - which it didnot

Do you guyz still have some suggestions to get away with this situation legitimately without end up paying extra fee offset. My main point of defence is : IT WAS NOT MY FAULT TO MAKE ONE DAY LATE DELIBERATELY...

[wildstreak]

Not a good position to be in..I don't think you will be able to challenge home office..no case there

You should definitely read the below..not looking very good..

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- ... -for-delay

[WR1]

Which service did you exactly use. Was it recorded delivery or special delivery. If the latter then you need to take the complaint up with Royal mail. You need to see their T&C and see if RM cover for consequencial loss.

[Casa]

12.4 We will not pay you compensation if we deliver items late unless you have
sent the items by a product which specifically includes compensation for
delay.
12.5 Regardless of any other term in this agreement, but subject to clause 12.9 of
these general terms, our total combined liability to you in relation to any item
will not exceed the amount you paid for us to provide products in relation to
that item.
12.9.2 any type of special or indirect loss, or loss as a result of something else
happening, as a consequence of the loss, damage or delay to your item.

Without trawling through Royal Mail's entire Terms & Conditions, it's obvious that the most you are likely to be refunded is the postage paid. Certainly not the difference between the BC application fee pre and post 18th March. You cut it too fine and you'll have to accept the increased fee, as be assured that the HO won't budge on this.

[CR001]

Do you guyz still have some suggestions to get away with this situation legitimately without end up paying extra fee offset. My main point of defence is : IT WAS NOT MY FAULT TO MAKE ONE DAY LATE DELIBERATELY...

Nope, nothing you can do re HO. Doesn't matter that it was not your fault. HO received it today and that will be the date of application and new fees will be applicable.

[Wanderer]

Do you guyz still have some suggestions to get away with this situation legitimately without end up paying extra fee offset. My main point of defence is : IT WAS NOT MY FAULT TO MAKE ONE DAY LATE DELIBERATELY...

It was your fault, you failed to exercise due diligence and relied on unsubstantiated assumptions about the Royal Mail's contractual obligations.

[cbz001]

Check this one. Looks like you should be fine.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... pdf#page40

[Casa]

Check this one. Looks like you should be fine.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... pdf#page40

Without guessing which part of the Immigration Rules you believe gives the OP hope...are you sure you're not confusing this with a visa application, where the date of posting qualifies as the date of submission? This isn't the case with a BC application where the Rules are different and the date of receipt by the HO is relevant. Unless submitted through the NCS, where it would be the day of attending the appointment.

[cbz001]

Oh I am sorry guys.....my bad.

[Casa]

Oh I am sorry guys.....my bad.

Well it probably lifted the OP's spirits for a minute or two.

[CR001]

Check this one. Looks like you should be fine.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... pdf#page40

Without guessing which part of the Immigration Rules you believe gives the OP hope...are you sure you're not confusing this with a visa application, where the date of posting qualifies as the date of submission? This isn't the case with a BC application where the Rules are different and the date of receipt by the HO is relevant. Unless submitted through the NCS, where it would be the day of attending the appointment.

Yes, user cbz001 is definitely confused as this document, page 40, specifically relates to visas and immigration rules and not nationality laws.

Losing the will Casa

[Gomjaba]

What does the receiptfrom Royal Mail say, it usually says whether it was posted on time for last pickup of day, not sure about wording, but it is there.

But yes, you likely only get your postage back.

Edit: Under price it says 'Posted after last collection'.

[WR1]

To the OP, as you stated, you realised about the fee increase late and as such things were left to the last minute and its unfortunate that Royal Mail couldn't deliver on time.

You have no case with Home Office, the additional fee will have to be paid.

Just been reading some of the Royal Mail T&C's, they do offer consequential loss from their website:

Consequential Loss for up to £10,000 is available to purchase at the time of posting at an additional cost. Evidence of Consequential Loss purchase is required. Claims must be submitted within 14 days of posting.

So unless at the time of posting the application, you purchased additional cover for consequential loss, you have no claim with Royal Mail for any consequential loss. At best, you will only be refunded the postage fee.

IMO, I would just put this one down to experience as it was all a last minute rush on your part as well, not just RM's fault. Yes, RM did mess up but there is not one courier company that has a 100% delivery track record.

[Casa]

To the OP, as you stated, you realised about the fee increase late and as such things were left to the last minute and its unfortunate that Royal Mail couldn't deliver on time.

You have no case with Home Office, the additional fee will have to be paid.

Just been reading some of the Royal Mail T&C's, they do offer consequential loss from their website:

Consequential Loss for up to £10,000 is available to purchase at the time of posting at an additional cost. Evidence of Consequential Loss purchase is required. Claims must be submitted within 14 days of posting.

So unless at the time of posting the application, you purchased additional cover for consequential loss, you have no claim with Royal Mail for any consequential loss. At best, you will only be refunded the postage fee.

IMO, I would just put this one down to experience as it was all a last minute rush on your part as well, not just RM's fault. Yes, RM did mess up but there is not one courier company that has a 100% delivery track record.

Correct...as with my earlier post with section of Ts&Cs
12.4 We will not pay you compensation if we deliver items late unless you have
sent the items by a product which specifically includes compensation for
delay.

[Obie]

You will need to take it up with Royal Mail. What time did you post it on the 16th?

Date of application is the date that HO physically receives it. Whether your choice of mailing service messed it up is not HOs problem.

Date of application, according to the rules, is the day the application was sent to Home office. The OP sent application on the 16-03-2016. Therefore application was made before the 18-03-2016.

Even people who applied on the 17-03-2016 will be covered.

I am puzzled how OP had received such swift reply within a day. In any event, the premise of the Home office contention is entirely flawed. There is no need for seeking compensation as the date of application is the date it was posted.

[honey2008]

Obie is right.

In case of application sent by post,the application date is date of posting.
In case of application sent by courier,the application date is date it is received at home office.

Extract from Immigration rules

This page tells you how to assess the date an application is made on a specified application
form.
The date of application or variation is either the date:
 of posting for postal applications sent by Royal Mail, you must accept the postmark as
evidence of the date of posting
 a premium service centre appointment is booked and paid, if it is made in person
 it is delivered to the Home Office if it is sent by courier or other postal services provider
 it is submitted through the online application process

Hope it helps

[vinny]

Obie, that's true for Immigration applications, but false for naturalisation applications.

6.3.3.1 The date of application is the date of its receipt by the appropriate "receiving authority", as explained in
paragraph 6.3.2, prescribed by paragraph 4 of the British Nationality (General) Regulations 1982 and 2003 as amended.

[Obie]

You are right Vinny .

This will explain why 3 applications sent to Home Office on 16th March 2016, was not signed for until 18th March.

I thought it seems strange, but no problems yet . I intend to fight UKVI or Royal mail vigorously if an issue arise with payments.

Same department but different rules for different applications .

At least I have acquired further knowledge on this evere so cumbersome rules.

The key is "RECEIVING AUTHORITY" under the rules we have a different system to naturalisation .

[Casa]

You will need to take it up with Royal Mail. What time did you post it on the 16th?

Date of application is the date that HO physically receives it. Whether your choice of mailing service messed it up is not HOs problem.

Date of application, according to the rules, is the day the application was sent to Home office. The OP sent application on the 16-03-2016. Therefore application was made before the 18-03-2016.

Even people who applied on the 17-03-2016 will be covered.

I am puzzled how OP had received such swift reply within a day. In any event, the premise of the Home office contention is entirely flawed. There is no need for seeking compensation as the date of application is the date it was posted.

I have to disagree with you on this Obie. Whereas for visa applications the date of application is taken as the date of posting (or at a PSC), with British citizenship application it is the day the HO ( or the issuing authority, i.e NCS) receive it. Which is why an applicant must ensure they were physically present in the UK on the qualfying date corresponding the the date of receipt.
Please note: You should also check that you were physically present in the UK 5
years (3 years if you are married to or in civil partnership with a British citizen) before
the date that the application will be received by the Home Office or other receiving
authority

[Obie]

You need not trouble yourself Casa . I have made a concession on that point in my previous post. I had thought the same regime under the rules applies to application under the 1981 Act .