Naturalization application late submitted - Royal Mail Fault

[Casa]

Obie is right.

In case of application sent by post,the application date is date of posting.
In case of application sent by courier,the application date is date it is received at home office.

Extract from Immigration rules

This page tells you how to assess the date an application is made on a specified application
form.
The date of application or variation is either the date:
 of posting for postal applications sent by Royal Mail, you must accept the postmark as
evidence of the date of posting
 a premium service centre appointment is booked and paid, if it is made in person
 it is delivered to the Home Office if it is sent by courier or other postal services provider
 it is submitted through the online application process

Hope it helps

This is for visa applications, not BC. Which is why it mentions PSC appointments (which aren't applicable to BC) and no mention of the NCS which is.

[Casa]

You need not trouble yourself Casa . I have made a concession on that point in my previous post. I had thought the same regime under the rules applies to application under the 1981 Act .

Pleased we agree Obie. I've also corrected Honey2008's post to avoid any confusion for members.

[vinny]

It's strange that they have apparently included the NCS as a "Receiving Authority", but not the Post Office nor Royal Mail.

[Casa]

Presumably Vinny because the NCS act as their official agents and the Post Office don't. It's only recently that the qualifying application date for NCS appointments has been changed to the day of the appointment and acceptance of the application. Previously, even with the NCS it was the date it reached the HO.

[vinny]

Slightly off topic: is there a difference between Post Office and Royal Mail? Are they different companies?

[Casa]

Slightly off topic: is there a difference between Post Office and Royal Mail? Are they different companies?

The UK postal service has been subject to changes over the years;
Good old wikepedia says:
As part of the Postal Services Act 2011, Post Office Ltd became independent of Royal Mail Group on 1 April 2012. A ten-year inter-business agreement was signed between the two companies to allow post offices to continue issuing stamps and handling letters and parcels for Royal Mail. The Act also contained the option for Post Office Ltd to become a mutual organisation in the future.

Some Post Offices are Crown Offices and some are managed as a franchise.

[vinny]

Thanks, Casa.

[RiteshAryal]

Thank you Guyz for your suggestions so far.

Today: HO sent a letter asking for outstanding FEE ie. £200 per person.

Situation so far is:
- HO asking for offset fee amount for 3 person.
- Now, should I claim that loose/damage with Royal Mail - or you guyz think its USELESS attempt again.

Now we cannot do anything unless paying offset fee HOWEVER we can claim that (lost of money) back from the Royal mail for not being able to deliver the documents on time (ie. Next Day... for what we relied & paid for)

Do u Guyz want to spotlight up anythings ?

[Casa]

12.4 We will not pay you compensation if we deliver items late unless you have
sent the items by a product which specifically includes compensation for
delay.
12.5 Regardless of any other term in this agreement, but subject to clause 12.9 of
these general terms, our total combined liability to you in relation to any item
will not exceed the amount you paid for us to provide products in relation to
that item.
12.9.2 any type of special or indirect loss, or loss as a result of something else
happening, as a consequence of the loss, damage or delay to your item.

Without trawling through Royal Mail's entire Terms & Conditions, it's obvious that the most you are likely to be refunded is the postage paid. Certainly not the difference between the BC application fee pre and post 18th March. You cut it too fine and you'll have to accept the increased fee, as be assured that the HO won't budge on this.

You may want to refresh your memory with the Royal Mail Ts&Cs which were posted for you early on in this thread. The advice won't change and this situation arose due to you taking the risk on an uninsured 'next day delivery'. If you want to proceed with the BC applications you will have to pay the additional fee, or lose whatever had already been paid.
Royal Mail are not financially liable for any costs incurred, apart from possibly the cost of the stamp. You're simply putting of the inevitable and I assume that you've been given a time limit for when this has to paid.

[Obie]

Next day service is indeed insured, and if a person lose as a result of royal mail failing to deliver next day, then they are entitled to compensation.

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- ... -for-delay

[secret.simon]

...It was done early evening around after 3pm (16/3/2016).

I think the OP not only left it till the eleventh hour, he was also 55 minutes past the hour.

It is worth checking the time-stamp on the Post Office receipt to see when the item was received by the Post Office.

http://www.royalmail.com/business/help/special-delivery

What is the latest acceptance time when posting Special Delivery Guaranteed items if you want the earliest available delivery time?

Remember that you’ll need to get a certificate of posting for your Special Delivery Guaranteed item.

The latest acceptance time depends partly on the Post Office® you choose to use. Check opening times using the Post Office® Branch Finder

To be on the safe-side please allow:

At least an hour before the Post Office® closes.
No later than 4.30pm even if the Post Office® has a later closing time.
No later than 11:00am if the Post Office® has a half day closing time.

Ask for further advice in person at your Post Office®.

Slightly off topic: is there a difference between Post Office and Royal Mail? Are they different companies?

Off the top of my head, the late (and much missed) Tony Benn positioned "The People's Post Office" in contradistinction to the Royal Mail in the 1960s when he was Postmaster-General.

At the time, the Post Office was the part that received the post and the Royal Mail the part that sorted and delivered it. The coalition government has in essence privatised the service and split it so that the Post Office could offer the delivery services of providers other than the Royal Mail in the future. They have been, since the Postal Services Act 2011 (as cited by Casa), separate entities and the relationship between them is purely commercial.

[Casa]

Next day service is indeed insured, and if a person lose as a result of royal mail failing to deliver next day, then they are entitled to compensation.

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- ... -for-delay

Obie, you'll find that within the Royal Mail terms and conditions they are not liable to compensate for the difference between the old and new application fees.
12.5 Regardless of any other term in this agreement, but subject to clause 12.9 of
these general terms, our total combined liability to you in relation to any item
will not exceed the amount you paid for us to provide products in relation to
that item. i.e the amount paid for the special delivery postage.
12.9.2 any type of special or indirect loss, or loss as a result of something else
happening, as a consequence of the loss, damage or delay to your item.


Also from personal experience Royal Mail have an incredibly lengthy claims process and will ask for proof from the recipient (Home Office) of the date the package was delivered.

[Obie]

Well you helpfully cited the following from you last post.

12.9.2 any type of special or indirect loss, or loss as a result of something else
happening, as a consequence of the loss, damage or delay to your item.

So yes OP can secure damages. He incurred indirect loss as a result of the delay.

The agreement is that a Guaranteed next day delivery must be delivered next day, provided it is posted before 5pm on the previous day.

If they failed in this service arrangement, and a person incur loss, then it goes without saying that the person is entitled to a compensation.

The is a clear nexus between the failure to deliver on the 17th March 2016, and the loss the person incurred, in having to pay the new fee which came into effect on the 18-03-2016.

Had they delivered on the 17 -03-2015, as agreed under their terms, then no loss would have been incurred .

The reason why people go for Special delivery, rather than Recorded Signed for, is this guarantee, that their item will arrive the next day. Otherwise Casa, what will be the point.

The key is whether her receipt states that Item was posted before last collection.

If the answer on the receipt is no, then she has a legitimate expectation that her application will be delivered on the 17-03-2016.

I think 3pm is a very reasonable time to post. I am normally at my post office by 4:45.

[Casa]

Thank you Guyz for your suggestions so far.

Today: HO sent a letter asking for outstanding FEE ie. £200 per person.

Situation so far is:
- HO asking for offset fee amount for 3 person.
- Now, should I claim that loose/damage with Royal Mail - or you guyz think its USELESS attempt again.

Now we cannot do anything unless paying offset fee HOWEVER we can claim that (lost of money) back from the Royal mail for not being able to deliver the documents on time (ie. Next Day... for what we relied & paid for)

Do u Guyz want to spotlight up anythings ?

You will see the following within the Royal Mail Terms & Conditions:
Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ (not posted on account)
Delay Compensation £5
Substantial Delay Compensation £10
(more than 7 days late)

Also, you would also need 100% co-operation from the HO in order to comply with the following conditions:
All claims must supply as a minimum the following “basic evidence”
the names and addresses of the sender, addressee and claimant,
the Royal Mail product used,
the place of posting,
the date of posting,
the basis for asserting that date (such as date of postmark, date of letter, certificate of posting (if available) and, for Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm™ (not posted on account),Royal Mail Signed for™, the product documentation,
the date of delivery and the basis for asserting this date,
the method of postage, e.g. stamps, franking impression, SmartStamp®, and
the postage paid.
Royal Mail reserves the right to request additional documentation and/or information from the claimant, sender or recipient to protect against unwarranted or duplicate claims. This includes but is not limited to the following additional evidence:
a statement in writing containing all of the basic evidence above and a declaration by the claimant acknowledging that the making of a false statement may lead to prosecution, accompanied by the envelope of the item or part of the wrapping that includes the address and the postage stamp or mark of the parcel, in respect of which the claim is made, and
an explanation, with such supporting information as is reasonably available, of circumstances that have resulted in the delay causing particular loss, distress or inconvenience to the claimant.
Royal Mail will require this additional evidence in respect of repeat or multiple claims by a claimant or in relation to a particular address, sender or recipient.