Surinder Singh HELP

[anon87]

Hey all

So i am a British Citizen and my husband is an indian National who has a Spanish residency and has been living in Barcelona for almost 10 years. We got married in the UK in August 2013 and I have been living with him in Barcelona since.

In December 2013 to June 2014 I managed to find myself a job in Barcelona, however it did not work out so well with my manager and I lost my Job after 6 months. Since then I have been unable to find suitable work.

I tried looking for work but it became rather difficult as i do not speak Spanish. My husband has always been on a good salary and we share a bank account. Also I had a fair bit of money from the time i was working myself, to prove that I am self sufficient.

After I lost my job, I have mainly used my joint account with my husband for any money that I have needed and my own account has been almost inactive for about a year (As in its been taking out the monthly fee) but ive not been using it to withdraw or cash in any money.

Anyhow, I would like to move back to the UK with my husband via the Surinder Singh Route but i'm just lost on how to apply? I understand the application comes through my husband, but I cannot seem to find the link to do so online, can the application not be submitted online from Spain? Does it have to be printed out and completed and then submitted? If so, where is it to be submitted?

I have spent the last couple of months trying to get all the papers together and I believe to have more than sufficient documents confirming that I have excercised my EU treaty Rights in Spain and made my way of life there.

These documents i've got together include:

My work contract whilst I was working
My Pay Slips
My tenancy Agreement
My NIE Card
Letter confirming I am registered in Spain since Sept 2016
My medical Card
My medical appointment letters
My medical insurance documentation
My bank statements, from when I opened the account
My husband and I's joint account statements from the time i joined him in 2013.
There are a few other documents I have which i cannot remember from the top of my head.
I think I also have a letter from My Gym Instructor, confirming that I took personal fitness classes with him (however I have stopped them now, as he increased his prices and they're rather extortionate)
I CAN GET:
My husbands pay slips, if required.
Anything else which would help?

These are all in Spanish at the moment, do i need to get ALL of these translated and certified? if so does anyone recommend a reasonable priced translator? As it is a fair bit of paperwork, and will end up costing me an arm and a leg otherwise.

Would you recommend hiring a solicitor to assist me with the application or to make the application on our behalf, if so any recommendations preferably in Birmingham are. However is the application pretty straight forward and can probably do it with the need of a solicitor?

Sorry for the long post, I am just abit lost about where to start and the process. Anyone make the process abit simpler or give me any information or advice?

Thank you all in advance.

[noajthan]

If you are the Brit then you are the 'proxy EEA national' - so you are the sponsor.
Non-EEA husband is your dependent (direct family member).

UK (somewhat controversially) only recognises qualified persons who were workers or self-employed under the Surinder Singh-route route. Hope that is not problematic for you.

You also need to show you had moved your 'centre of life' to Spain. That is another UK wrapper over the clean, pure Surinder Singh rights.

You need to apply for a FP for hubby to gain entry into UK.
Apply online:
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh

Your husband's activities are less important - it is you who had to exercise the treaty rights. You will need good documentary supporting evidence of this.

Probably no need for a solicitor.

Once here in UK there is no need for you to exercise treaty rights (thanks to case law of Eind).

Husband can (if he wishes) apply for a RC to confirm his residency, rights to work & study in UK:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-fm

That's it. Ariba ariba!

[anon87]

UK (somewhat controversially) only recognises qualified persons who were workers or self-employed under the Surinder Singh-route route. Hope that is not problematic for you.

Hi

Thanks for your reply.

I worked as a credit collector in a American multinational company for 6 months, I think thats sufficient??

I followed the link you provided to make an account to register so that my husband could make the application. However after completing basic details and setting a password it came back to say registration unsuccessful. I can only imagine that may Spain does not qualify for online applications?

Also do I need to provide proof of living with my husband 24/7, I do travel to the UK quite abit to see my family. Would this be a problem?

[noajthan]

Thanks for your reply.

I worked as a credit collector in a American multinational company for 6 months, I think thats sufficient??

I followed the link you provided to make an account to register so that my husband could make the application. However after completing basic details and setting a password it came back to say registration unsuccessful. I can only imagine that may Spain does not qualify for online applications?

Also do I need to provide proof of living with my husband 24/7, I do travel to the UK quite abit to see my family. Would this be a problem?

As far as I'm aware everyone applies online except for N.Korea residents (in N.Korea).
Suggest try again &/or use different browser etc.

6 months of work may be enough.
EU case law suggests a minimum of 3 months or so but don't forget UK immigration is a hot topic these days and HO tends to play hardball in this area. So the longer the better really.

As long as you maintained continuity of residence in Spain (ie no more than 6 months absence per 12 month period) all should be well.

EU case law permits 'non co-habitation' in EU couples; (you just have to be married, not necessarily co-habiting 24*7).

[anon87]

Thanks for your reply.

I worked as a credit collector in a American multinational company for 6 months, I think thats sufficient??

I followed the link you provided to make an account to register so that my husband could make the application. However after completing basic details and setting a password it came back to say registration unsuccessful. I can only imagine that may Spain does not qualify for online applications?

Also do I need to provide proof of living with my husband 24/7, I do travel to the UK quite abit to see my family. Would this be a problem?

As far as I'm aware everyone applies online except for N.Korea residents (in N.Korea).
Suggest try again &/or use different browser etc.

6 months of work may be enough.
EU case law suggests a minimum of 3 months or so but don't forget UK immigration is a hot topic these days and HO tends to play hardball in this area. So the longer the better really.

As long as you maintained continuity of residence in Spain (ie no more than 6 months absence per 12 month period) all should be well.

EU case law permits 'non co-habitation' in EU couples; (you just have to be married, not necessarily co-habiting 24*7).

Hey

I just tried again using a different browser but same error. I am now thinking it could be because it asks for nationality and i chose Indian, because thats the only passport my husband holds.

I have emailed them to see if there is an error on the website, lets see if they reply promptly or whether theres a waiting time for that too haaah!

Yes, immigration is really hot lately so it makes me a bit nervous.

Do I need to prove each time I came to the UK to see family or prove that we live together in addition to all the supporting documents that prove I am living there anyway? does that make sense? lol

[noajthan]

As its an online form I can't see latest version & all questions.

You could print off the paper version (its on website for benefit of N.Korea applicants) and have a practice until you are able to register online.

[anon87]

As its an online form I can't see latest version & all questions.

You could print off the paper version (its on website for benefit of N.Korea applicants) and have a practice until you are able to register online.

Thats what i have done, thank you.

So can I just get one thing straight. I (my husband or I or both?) would need to complete the form either online or on paper however it will be, then make an appointment and go to the UK embassy in Madrid (there is no other embassy elsewhere) to submit all the supporting documents from Spanish to English to support my husbands application? Most of these documents being mine.

Is the application definitely NOT submitted in the UK? all this time I was under the impression that it was? If this is the case why do to they want it translated? They charge like 10 Euros per page and i have so many pages id be bankrupt lol

[noajthan]

As its an online form I can't see latest version & all questions.

You could print off the paper version (its on website for benefit of N.Korea applicants) and have a practice until you are able to register online.

Thats what i have done, thank you.

So can I just get one thing straight. I (my husband or I or both?) would need to complete the form either online or on paper however it will be, then make an appointment and go to the UK embassy in Madrid (there is no other embassy elsewhere) to submit all the supporting documents from Spanish to English to support my husbands application? Most of these documents being mine.

Is the application definitely NOT submitted in the UK? all this time I was under the impression that it was? If this is the case why do to they want it translated? They charge like 10 Euros per page and i have so many pages id be bankrupt lol

The paper form is just to practice on.

The website is clear, you need to apply for the FP online.

Not sure where documents go, whether somewhere in Spain or straight to a UKVI office in UK.
I assume the online form will tell you.

[noajthan]

This case may be of interest:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/irelan ... 06715.html

[anon87]

This case may be of interest:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/irelan ... 06715.html

I don't think that that applies to me as I have been living in Barcelona for almost 3 years now.

The only thing is I only worked for 6 months between 2013/2014. Do you think that will be a problem? Do I have to be working at the time of my application?

I contacted a solicitor by email who basically replied saying I do not meet the requirements because I am not currently working and I have to be. However I am under the belief and understanding that as long as you have excercised your eu treaty rights it's sufficient?

I am feeling sad and panicked now

[noajthan]

I don't think that that applies to me as I have been living in Barcelona for almost 3 years now.

The only thing is I only worked for 6 months between 2013/2014. Do you think that will be a problem? Do I have to be working at the time of my application?

I contacted a solicitor by email who basically replied saying I do not meet the requirements because I am not currently working and I have to be. However I am under the belief and understanding that as long as you have excercised your eu treaty rights it's sufficient?

I am feeling sad and panicked now

There is case law to say you do not necessarily have to be working at the end of your sojourn in a member state.

The important thing is (obviously) to have exercised treaty rights at some time.
Will try to find a reference when I have time.

[anon87]

I don't think that that applies to me as I have been living in Barcelona for almost 3 years now.

The only thing is I only worked for 6 months between 2013/2014. Do you think that will be a problem? Do I have to be working at the time of my application?

I contacted a solicitor by email who basically replied saying I do not meet the requirements because I am not currently working and I have to be. However I am under the belief and understanding that as long as you have excercised your eu treaty rights it's sufficient?

I am feeling sad and panicked now

There is case law to say you do not necessarily have to be working at the end of your sojourn in a member state.

The important thing is (obviously) to have exercised treaty rights at some time.
Will try to find a reference when i have time.

Thank you! I also believed that this was the case and I didn't necessarily have to be working at the time of application either.

These solicitors are most of the time quite useless, don't even know why I contacted him as he's just made me feel worse.

I'll post his reply here:

Hello,

Further to your immigration enquiry.

Unfortunately at this time you would not be able to rely on Surinder Singh as you are not exercising your treaty rights in an EU state . This is due to you not working, self-employed etc. I understand that you have worked previously but this would not be sufficient in showing you have and are exercising your treaty rights, due to length and time of employment.

There is an argument that holders of residency cards in EU states can enter the UK with their EU/British family members without entry clearance however this is very rarely put into practice by the border control staff and if you were to be stopped, given the lack of evidence to show you have been exercising treaty rights in Spain, the likelihood would be that your husband would be refused entry and required to return to Spain.

Given the length of time your husband has been in Spain is he now not eligible for Spanish Citizenship? I was under the impression that it was 10 years you needed to reside lawfully? Based on the circumstances if this option is available I would advise to proceed with this.

Failing this your only option would be to return to the UK and gain employment to a level of £18,600 p/a and bring your husband to the UK under the immigrations rules and Appendix FM.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards


Senior Accredited Immigration Caseworker

[anon87]

He didn't even know what evidence I had. This was his reply to my generic query to see if he'd done any surinder Singh applications and me providing the basic info of what I'd done in Spain.

[noajthan]

He didn't even know what evidence I had. This was his reply to my generic query to see if he'd done any surinder Singh applications and me providing the basic info of what I'd done in Spain.

I can't find the case law I'm thinking of just now.
Suggest you have another dry run with the form, collate all your evidence - see how it stacks up, how strong it looks and if there are any obvious gaps.

Worst case you may have to consider another round of employment or self-employment (in Spain) for a number of months.
Having lived there so long, you are likely to have rest of centre of life covered by now;
eg household, integration in community, some language & etc.

But only you can really judge, based on the dry-run you do.

Exploring whether husband can shoot for Spanish citizenship is quite a good idea, or at least whether he has acquired PR in Spain.
That would grant him easy (easier) access into UK.

You may be able to do this on basis of exercising treaty rights as a self-sufficient person (if not as a worker).
You will need to check on specifics for Spain (eg if health cover/CSI would have been required).