Travelling After Citizenship Ceremony

[Richard W]

Failure to return a BRP to the Home Office following a grant of British citizenship may result in the issuance of a financial penalty

See also https://www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-c ... p-ceremony

You’ll be fined up to £1,000 if you don’t return your permit in 5 days.

If one is prosecuted for this one will acquire a record.
Hardly an auspicious start to life as a British citizen.

Is there any evidence that this is a criminal matter? It sounds more like a civil penalty, which I presume the Home Office likes because it avoids any requirement for justice.

In fact, is there any evidence that the Home Office isn't simply lying? I could find a relevant power under the Biometric regulations, but the code of practice implies that the maximum fine is £500!

[Richard W]

Airlines do not need such 'direct access' to 'UK immigration files', that's not how its done.
OK to board (OTB) processing (including visa/document checks) is handled by Advanced Passenger Information systems (APIS).
Many airlines are now heavily invested in APIS and related systems.

Is OTB live for the UK? All I could find for 'OK to board' was referring either to the UAE or to Emirates.

[Casa]

Airlines do not need such 'direct access' to 'UK immigration files', that's not how its done.
OK to board (OTB) processing (including visa/document checks) is handled by Advanced Passenger Information systems (APIS).
Many airlines are now heavily invested in APIS and related systems.

Is OTB live for the UK? All I could find for 'OK to board' was referring either to the UAE or to Emirates.

British Airways use APIS and related systems.

[Richard W]

British Airways use APIS and related systems.

Yes, the system seems to be live for the USA. I'm asking about the UK government instructing airlines to deny boarding to specific passengers when informed that they wish to travel - or its converse, 'OTB'. I believe there is is a similar system in place for Australia - that comes with manned phone lines to resolve problems.

[noajthan]

Is OTB live for the UK? All I could find for 'OK to board' was referring either to the UAE or to Emirates.

No comment.

[Richard W]

So will travelling to the US and back be ok on a US passport and then showing a british citizen cert at customs?

Probably. We haven't heard of British citizens with naturalisation certificates being refused entry. You might even get away with just visiting the UK - any prohibition on working would just be a joke, as law-abiding British citizens can't be forbidden to work as a condition for entering the UK.

Moderator Edit: Last sentence deleted due to possible objections to the intended 'joke'.

[secret.simon]

There are two different stages that such a British citizen (with naturalisation certificate but without a British passport) would face issues.

To the best of my knowledge, a British citizen can not be denied admission to the UK as he has Right of Abode in the UK. We do not have the requirement that a British citizen entering the UK must do so on a British passport. I am fairly certain that an Immigration Officer would allow in a British citizen traveling on a US (or other) passport with a naturalisation certificate. There may be a delay while the authenticity of the naturalisation certificate is checked, but other than that, I doubt that a British citizen would be denied entrance solely on the grounds that he did not have a British passport.

The greater hurdle would be that the airlines may not allow such a person to board the plane. Airlines have no mechanism to verify or authenticate a naturalisation certificate. Given that they would be liable to expenses and possibly fines if they fly you to the UK without authenticated documentation, they are unlikely to take the risk to fly you on the basis of a document that has no security features to prove its veracity.

[johnch121]

Airlines do not need such 'direct access' to 'UK immigration files', that's not how its done.
OK to board (OTB) processing (including visa/document checks) is handled by Advanced Passenger Information systems (APIS).
Many airlines are now heavily invested in APIS and related systems.

I would suggest you tell that to the low cost airlines as every time we have flown with them they have wanted to see a visa for said country. I have just flown to Thailand for longer than 30 days and the airline check to see if I had a visa.

Everytime my wife has flown back to the UK she has been required to show her BRP why would she need to do that if they already had that information to hand?

If what you saying is correct then why would the airline check if they had already known I had a visa? and what about VOA? which can be and sometimes is denied?

[Richard W]

I would suggest you tell that to the low cost airlines as every time we have flown with them they have wanted to see a visa for said country. I have just flown to Thailand for longer than 30 days and the airline check to see if I had a visa.

Are the Thai honorary consulates connected to the system? It doesn't seem so long ago that a drug smuggler convicted in Thailand got a visa to return to Thailand, only to be refused entry on arrival.

Another, more general problem is that visas in expired passports remain valid, which could make checking tricky. I don't know how Australia handles the issue. If my memory serves me right, a US ESTA expires with the passport.

[Richard W]

The greater hurdle would be that the airlines may not allow such a person to board the plane.

Well, at present, that depends on whether one is a visa national or not. A massive hurdle for visa nationals is a breeze for non-visa nationals. However, if passengers are vetted by the UK before boarding, then a vicious policy could prevent those recently naturalised from travelling on their old passports on the basis that they intended to settle in their new country.

[Richard W]

To the best of my knowledge, a British citizen can not be denied admission to the UK as he has Right of Abode in the UK.

IA 1971 Section 3(9) requires a passport or certificate of entitlement to right of abode in order to assert the right at a port.

[johnch121]

I know a person who entered the USA on a us visa waiver after spending time in prison, he lied on the application which is not a good thing to do but going by the previous post that should be impossible if government departments have access to a persons records which they don't they have to request such information. The APIS only requires your

Full name
Gender
Date of birth
Nationality
Country of residence
Travel document type
Travel document number

Nothing to do with a persons immigration status and nothing to do with what visas the person is currently holding.

[johnch121]

IA 1971 Section 3(9) requires a passport or certificate of entitlement to right of abode in order to assert the right at a port.


It should be remembered that the absence of evidence to establish a claim to the right of abode is not, in itself, a ground for refusal of entry.

[noajthan]

I am not going to conduct a training session on APIS, APP, DCS & similar systems here - frankly the board doesn't pay me enough.

Neither am I claiming every airline uses APIS &/or other, ahem, security systems.

It should be self-evident that in a free market some will and some won't.
Some parts of the world and some airlines/airports clearly have gaping security holes. (Anyone watch the news last week?).
But the trend is clear in light of current global threats to our safety and freedom of travel.

Back to the thread, people coming here cannot say they are unaware of the HO's new requirement to return a BRP;
nor of the penalties involved;
nor of the risks of attempting to travel on an invalidated BRP and not getting boarded.

How anyone weighs that up and acts is on them.

Keep this topic on track or it will be locked. It has almost run its course.

[johnch121]

The OP maybe interested in an older post which reads:

Hi All - I'm aware that this thread is an old one but I can't find a recent one on the topic and wanted to post this in case anyone was looking for an up-to-date account of travelling on a foreign passport with a UK Naturalisation certificate.
I got my naturalisation about two weeks ago but didn't have enough time to apply for a British passport before my scheduled trip this past weekend. I landed at Gatwick last night and went through the non EU passports line with my Indefinite Leave to Remain biometric card, my US passport and a landing card. I also had my Naturalisation certificate and my marriage certificate as the name on my recently updated passport is now different to what's on my ILR card and my naturalisation certificate shows my name as hyphenated (with my maiden name and married name).
I explained to the woman at immigration that I had my ILR card, passport and naturalisation certificate but hadn't had a chance to get a British passport before my trip. She took all three items plus the landing card to the office to be checked and came back about 30 seconds later saying it was all fine. She didn't stamp my US passport and she gave me back the landing card and waved me through with no issues. That said, I don't think this option should be used more than once or twice. She could see that my naturalisation was only granted a few weeks earlier so there clearly wasn't time to apply for a British Passport. In other circumstances, if the naturalisation was granted some time ago I could see them getting annoyed that I hadn't applied for a passport or for a Right to Abode stamp in my foreign passport. This option should really only be used if you don't have time to get either of those before your next trip. Hope this helps put a few minds at ease in the mean time!

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 39170.html

[johnch121]

To The Op

Flew back from Thailand TODAY 11/04/2016 Showed BRP to check in no problem, arrived Abu Dhabi had to show my BRP to be aloud to Board again NO Problem. Arrived back in the UK show BRP and My Citizenship Certificate NO PROBLEM was just told to apply for a UK passport before flying again.

All the scare mongers on here who kept saying you can do it and you will be refused boarding I have just returned doing just that without any problem or delays.

[Casa]

To The Op

Flew back from Thailand TODAY 11/04/2016 Showed BRP to check in no problem, arrived Abu Dhabi had to show my BRP to be aloud to Board again NO Problem. Arrived back in the UK show BRP and My Citizenship Certificate NO PROBLEM was just told to apply for a UK passport before flying again.

All the scare mongers on here who kept saying you can do it and you will be refused boarding I have just returned doing just that without any problem or delays.

...and are you going to personally guarantee that everyone will be as fortunate as you, with just a warning from the IO not to travel without a British passport in the future?

[noajthan]

Stating the current rules for benefit of people who don't know them is not scaremongering, it is one purpose of the forum.

I parked on double yellow lines on Sunday to pick my wife up; quick as a flash a warden appeared and told me to buzz off but this time he didn't give me a ticket.
There is still a law in UK about parking on double yellows. People do get tickets for that every day.

Just because there is a hole in the fence does not mean there is no fence.

[johnch121]

To The Op

Flew back from Thailand TODAY 11/04/2016 Showed BRP to check in no problem, arrived Abu Dhabi had to show my BRP to be aloud to Board again NO Problem. Arrived back in the UK show BRP and My Citizenship Certificate NO PROBLEM was just told to apply for a UK passport before flying again.

All the scare mongers on here who kept saying you can do it and you will be refused boarding I have just returned doing just that without any problem or delays.

...and are you going to personally guarantee that everyone will be as fortunate as you, with just a warning from the IO not to travel without a British passport in the future?

I am not going to get into an argument with people on here, people said that you can not do it, My wife just has, People said the airline will and can check a BRP which all they done is looked at it.

As I have said before I have not been able to find one person who has been refused entry in to the UK after showing there certificate.

Most of the people who have written in this post are just trying to scare people with utter rubbish and to be honest I think that is all I have to say about this. The OP has an answer to his question in that YES YOU CAN TRAVEL AFTER GAINING CITIZENSHIP

[Perpglo]

FYI if anyone is wanting some up up-to-date, useful info based on real life experience:
Almost cancelled our trip we had planned months in advance when I heard BRP had to be returned and was invalid following naturalisation ceremony. Have been a naturalised BC for almost a month now. Came back into the UK using foreign passport and ILR card with no issues. Filled in landing card as normal. Will be sending BRP back now and applying for passport asap. So glad I didn't cancel my trip.

[Human]

@johnch121 That's very useful mate.

Unfortunately , Many of us immigrants were from 3rd world countries and were brought up in a culture of fear and insecurity . Be it the Govt , God or Society . We were afraid of everything.

I guess , HO is asking us to return BRP as they are concerned that the BRP might be misused by terrorists and the ilk. But If we have a pre-booked travel plan , We are with in our rights to inform HO that we can only return the BRP after the the travel.

Come on guys , BC is an escape from servitude . No more fear , Act like a citizen of a free country

[Gomjaba]

There certainly seems to be a lot of posts that are pure scare mongering and not based on fact

You don't accept official regulations facts ?

Either way, people not getting caught doesn't make it more legal. Sure there is a high possibility nothing is going to happen and the OP can travel and all is good - the mods merely repeated the regulations.

Let me give you another example. When I applied for a British Passport, my old foreign passport was sent back to me. Now technically I got two uncancelled passports. Now let's assume I am from a country which does not allow dual citizenship, yet I keep my foreign passport and travel with it. Will the border agency notice that my passport is technically not valid anymore ? Unlikely ... Will I get caught ? Probably not ... Is it illegal ? Sure is ...

There is always a first and just because no one got caught yet doesn't mean someone won't be the first. The OP got the options - wing it or postpone travel ... up to him to decide ...

No more fear , Act like a citizen of a free country

Which includes obeying the law

[Richard W]

I guess , HO is asking us to return BRP as they are concerned that the BRP might be misused by terrorists and the ilk.

Yes, they're worried that you might be or become a terrorist. They got caught out when someone was deprived of his British citizenship but used his previous ILR to return to appeal in person.

[leavetoremain]

Personally I wouldn't travel after citizenship ceremony until I get the passport.

However might consider travelling if it is a personal emergency.

[ubiquitous]

The way I see it, there are two sides to this...

Side 1: These are the rules, you can and probably will get into big trouble if you don't follow them! I cannot recommend you do anything that could break the rules! Play it safe - the consequences are potentially dire!

Side 2: Right, there are rules, but for every rule, there is an exception and an exemption. There is solid evidence that the penalties are more bluster and fearmongering than real risk, and many people have had no problem with explaining their situation and having no issues. That's not to say that everyone will be guaranteed to have the same experience, but the body of evidence suggests it's relatively low risk if travel is urgent and important.

Both sides make valid points, and both sides have made a good contribution to the complete picture for those of us who are or may be in the difficult position of needing to travel after getting BC. The more information we get and the more anecdotal evidence of how the Home Office/Border Agency deals with these real world situations, the better prepared we all are. Win-win situation!