Family Visitor Visa Refused. Administrative Review?

[subujoseph]

Dear All,

Once again gutted with immigration rules of UK. We had applied for the wife's parents to come to the UK as a family visitor. Unfortunately the visa was refused. From what I can see it was refused because the officer felt that they would not return back to India. I believe that we submitted adequate proof to prove substantial ties to home.

Either way I am not here to vent.

My question is, will it be possible to go for an administrative review for family visit visa refusal? What could be the likely outcome? or is it better to re apply.

Thanks for all the response.

[CR001]

or is it better to re apply.

This one.

What was the exact words of the refusal (less any personal info)?

What documentary evidence did you submit to prove their ties to their home country?

[subujoseph]

Thanks for the reply.

I note that your son in law has stated in a letter that he will sponsor your trip to the UK and from the documents you have submitted I am satisfied that he has the ability to do so. I acknowledge the importance of maintaining family contact and have considered the compassionate aspects of your application. However it is the intentions of the applicant that are paramount in considering any application.

In making this assessment I have to look at your circumstances and the credibility of your trip. The starting point for the assessment of any visa application is the information contained in the visa application form and supporting documents. You have stated on your visa application form that you are currently employed full time as a Tapper and Helper for xxxxxx and have a salary of INR15000 (€156) per month. You state you have a further income of f20 (1NR1918) from savings and investments. I note you have provided a letter from your employer who confirms your salary and has approved your leave. I note the property settlement document you provided. You have submitted very little further evidence of your circumstances in lndia; some of the documents you have supplied have not been translated and therefore cannot be considered. Without the evidence we asked for, I am not satisfied that you plan to leave the UK at the end of your visit or that you are genuinely seeking entry as a general visitor for a period not exceeding 6 months. I am not satisfied that you have demonstrated your circumstances in India, or that you have shown ties to that country that would compel you to leave the UK, especially as you have shown significant ties to the UK. I am not satisfied therefore that you have presented an accurate picture of your economic circumstances in India Appendix V 4.2 (a - e) of the immigration Rules.

From the above I gather that if you are not "rich" you wont be granted a visa?

The other documents which was not in English was the receipts for paying land tax.

Her parents owns the land and the house on it. The value of this would be over £49,000. We had give the translated documents of this. They were born in India and stayed there throughout their life. They also have a lot of brothers sisters extended family etc. - Does UKVI require proof of this to show substantial ties to India?

[CR001]

Did they provide their bank statements to prove the 'other' income?

Did they provide anything else in their name to show ties (i.e. not stuff in other family members names)?

How long did they state they were coming to the UK to visit?

From the above I gather that if you are not "rich" you wont be granted a visa?

Don't assume this, many people are granted visitor visas. It is unfortunate that years of abuse of the visitor visa has made it more difficult now.

It is the applicants' responsibility to prove they are 'genuine visitors' and submit substantial documentation to prove their personal and financial circumstances in their home country. ALL documents that are not in English must be translated.

[subujoseph]

Thank you CR001 for your prompt reply.

Did they provide their bank statements to prove the 'other' income?

Yes

Did they provide anything else in their name to show ties (i.e. not stuff in other family members names)?

All they have is the land and house on it. It is in their names. The value of this house would be above £49,000.

How long did they state they were coming to the UK to visit?

5 Months, not exceeding 6 months.

From the above I gather that if you are not "rich" you wont be granted a visa?

Don't assume this, many people are granted visitor visas. It is unfortunate that years of abuse of the visitor visa has made it more difficult now.

I understand. However, it give us pain to know that UKVI has such an attitude toward everyone. It has indeed made things difficult for genuine applicants. I personally know friends who have their single parents (partner deceased) granted visitor visa. Therefore, this has led me to believe that our decision was made arbitrarily.

It is the applicants' responsibility to prove they are 'genuine visitors' and submit substantial documentation to prove their personal and financial circumstances in their home country. ALL documents that are not in English must be translated.

They own the house and land. The income they receive is more than enough to sustain them independently. We honestly don't know what else to submit to prove ties to India

They also have another daughter who is married and working in another country abroad. Will this information assist? Even then what documents need to be submitted to prove that?


Is it still the case that there is no option for Administrative Review? A solicitor that I spoke to in the UK said there is an option for Administrative Review, however I have not found any provision for that online.

[vignezh]

How long did they state they were coming to the UK to visit?

5 Months, not exceeding 6 months.

If you browse the forum for similar applications, this plays a crucial role for a visitor visa. A 5-month stay is generally considered a bit too long for a "visit". they give you a 6-month multiple entry visa, which means you are allowed to make short visits to UK within the allowed 6-month period. I have had successful visitors visa for my mother and mother-in-law in the past, and they both had very little, next to none financial clout to show. On both cases, just one person traveled while the partner/family member stayed back.

You might be successful if only one of the parents travel and hence can show solid evidence that they will return home after the visit.

[subujoseph]

Thank you vignezh for you reply.

The option that you have given is the one which we are now considering.

Regarding the 5 month stay, I thought better be straightforward rather than being sorry later. I have read on a post here that someone's subsequent visa application was rejected because they stayed for longer than what they stated in their first application.

Say if we apply for the Mother-in-Law now and once she has got the visa apply for the Father-in-Law later, will it be successful?

[subujoseph]

Update.

I spoke to a solicitor here and he says we can go for an Administrative Review. But I can't find any information on Administrative Review for Visitor Visa refusals.

Is it true that we can go for Administrative Review?

Can anyone with experience/knowledge advise?

Thanks.

[CR001]

No, Administrative Review or appeal is not an option for a refused visitor visa.

https://www.gov.uk/ask-for-a-visa-admin ... ide-the-uk

[subujoseph]

I just found this webpage

https://eforms.homeoffice.gov.uk/outrea ... dance.ofml

After you click Apply for and Administrative Review, On Page 3 I found the following:-
Tier 1
Tier 2
Tier 4
Tier 5
ILR
None of the Above

It allows me to select "None of the Above" and continue with the application. Further down there is an option to give reasons for why do you think that a Review is necessary.

Is it something that you have come across?

Thanks.

[CR001]

The 'none of the above' option likely applies to FLR(FP), FLR(O), Ancestry or spouse visa and not visitor visas.

The link I have provided clearly states :

You can only ask for an administrative review if all of the following apply:

you’re outside the UK
you applied outside the UK
your application was refused on or after 6 April 2015
you don’t have a right of appeal against the refusal
you didn’t make an application as a visitor or a short term student

[subujoseph]

Thanks,

That is what I said to the solicitor, yet he insists that we can go for Administrative Review. I think he is trying to con me.

[CR001]

Well he would make some money off you won't he.

If the refusal does not state admin review is possible, then you cannot do it.

It is easier and quicker to re-apply and address the points in the refusal letter.

[subujoseph]

Thanks CR001,

That is what I am going to do. One more question. My wife is pregnant. Will it help if we say that the parents are coming for moral support?

Thanks.

[Wanderer]

Thanks CR001,

That is what I am going to do. One more question. My wife is pregnant. Will it help if we say that the parents are coming for moral support?

Thanks.

Probably makes it worse as the ECO could see that as a visa for an unpaid nanny......

[subujoseph]

Probably makes it worse as the ECO could see that as a visa for an unpaid nanny......

Interesting...

I have heard multiple conflicting arguments regarding this. Some say don't say that they are visiting their pregnant daughter. Yet other opine that it is good to say so.

I have literally just spoken to my friend who's initial visa request for his in-laws got rejected and in their 2nd application, they mentioned that their daughter was pregnant and they got the Visa.

I guess there are no written rules regarding how an ECO reaches a decision in the case of visitor visas. In most of the cases it boils down to pure luck. It also makes me wonder if they have an "undisclosed" quota each month i.e. they have to reject some applications every month.

[Wanderer]

Probably makes it worse as the ECO could see that as a visa for an unpaid nanny......

Interesting...

I have heard multiple conflicting arguments regarding this. Some say don't say that they are visiting their pregnant daughter. Yet other opine that it is good to say so.

I have literally just spoken to my friend who's initial visa request for his in-laws got rejected and in their 2nd application, they mentioned that their daughter was pregnant and they got the Visa.

I guess there are no written rules regarding how an ECO reaches a decision in the case of visitor visas. In most of the cases it boils down to pure luck. It also makes me wonder if they have an "undisclosed" quota each month i.e. they have to reject some applications every month.

Don't think there's any quotas, best to keep things simple especially for the first few, short visits, leave no chance of anything being misconstrued or causing raised eyebrows.

I agree above that 5 months is a long time, along with a kid on the way, does give the ECO something to get his teeth into and impress his boss.

[subujoseph]

Don't think there's any quotas, best to keep things simple especially for the first few, short visits, leave no chance of anything being misconstrued or causing raised eyebrows.

I agree above that 5 months is a long time, along with a kid on the way, does give the ECO something to get his teeth into and impress his boss.

I guess, we will now apply for say 1 month. But end of the day, I am still at a loss as to how to prove substantial ties to back home. May be the best option is to apply for a single parent for the time being.

[chattokhan]

I guess, we will now apply for say 1 month. But end of the day, I am still at a loss as to how to prove substantial ties to back home. May be the best option is to apply for a single parent for the time being.

I am on the same boat, parents' visa refused yesterday. I am thinking to re-apply visit visa for my mother only. But still unsure how to justify why my father is no longer willing to travel to UK.

[subujoseph]

I am on the same boat, parents' visa refused yesterday. I am thinking to re-apply visit visa for my mother only. But still unsure how to justify why my father is no longer willing to travel to UK.

We have decided to reapply for both. After some research I found that it will help if we keep a valuation of the property. So we have decided to contact a licensed valuator to value the property. This will give the ECO an idea about the worth of the immovable assets. We are also planning to give details about strong family ties to home. Still contemplating as to how to achieve this

I am also told that It will also help if we say that the duration of visit is 1 or 2 months max.

[chattokhan]

After some research I found that it will help if we keep a valuation of the property. So we have decided to contact a licensed valuator to value the property. This will give the ECO an idea about the worth of the immovable assets

Exactly that's what I was told when I was preparing to apply for the visa. I had attached all the property documents along with the valuation docs. The combined worth of all the properties was about £120,000. ECO mentioned that in the refusal letter that property ownership documents do not demonstrate your financial ties with your home country.

All he/she wanted to see is regular income which I couldn't demonstrate because my father is retired and he only gets rental income from property. However ECO didn't seem convinced because he refused the rental income proof by saying rental income in not sufficient enough to demonstrate your economical ties.

Well, good luck with your new application. Hope you get it through this time around.

[subujoseph]

property ownership documents do not demonstrate your financial ties with your home country.

This is just outright stupid. What else do they require to prove financial ties? Do they only grant visas to Billionaires?

All he/she wanted to see is regular income which I couldn't demonstrate because my father is retired and he only gets rental income from property. However ECO didn't seem convinced because he refused the rental income proof by saying rental income in not sufficient enough to demonstrate your economical ties.

We are in similar situation as well. Only my father-in-law is working but he is not on a high income but his income to live happily back home.

The decision made by the ECO is subjective. It is pure luck to get an ECO with half decent brains who will not reject visas on stupid and arbitrary reasons.

[chattokhan]

I am inclined to agree. It is just about the luck.

[Malz81]

Did you reapply again and what was the outcome?

[subujoseph]

Hi Everyone,

I was about to update this thread soon.

Yes, we reapplied again and got the Visa this time. They got the visa last week.

This is what we did, I hope it will help someone.

We submitted the value of the property that they own which was valued by a licensed surveyor. We also submitted a financial statement from a chartered accountant.

We also stated that my wife was pregnant and she need her parents for emotional support. We submitted the Maternity certificate as proof. We also stated that they will only be visiting for 5 weeks and are coming just to provide emotional support during child birth.

I hope it helps.