Applying for PR as EEA National (before Naturalisation)

[edga]

Hi Everybody,

Last year I have been rejected UK Citizenship due to apparent lack of WRS registration in the extended period between 2009 and 2011. Even though this extension was ruled unlawful they stll refused my reconsideration stating (in a very cloudy wording) that at the time of making decision (2 days before the ruling) they adhered to the law and besides it still doesn't change the fact I haven't proven my employment (even though I did since I had P45's but didn't have WRS).

Anyway, I thought before I apply for Naturalisation again, which can be May 2017 (May 2011 + 6 years) I would apply for Permanent Residency first. At least all necessary basic checks would already be done and perhaps I would have a better chance next time.

I would like to seek some help from you as I have couple of questions:

1. Is it even a good idea? The way I look at it, I pay 65GBP to get PR and at least some of the basic stuff will be checked before I splash ~1300 for Citizenship (I miss the 960 price from 2 years ago!)

2. Do you have to fill out the whole form? It is huge and a lot of waste for somebody who is EEA National, I don't need all those sections about family members and sponsors, but do you still need to include it?

3. They do ask about employment history since I came to the UK (2006), but also mention, in section 9.18 to list employment without permission. Stupid question but should I enter the details about those two years that rejection letter said I wasn't working lawfully because I wasn't registered (I had WRS but the details of my new employer didn't reach HMRC)

If you have any other tips as to how fill this document out to have maximum chance of getting it I would very much appreciate it.

I am a national from Poland that has been constantly employed since October 2006 with two-month period of unemployment (July-September 2009)

Thank you in advance

[edga]

Another thing I forgot to add..

Just like on Citizenship application they require to know all the details about absences. Do I need to provide it from the moment I entered the UK (as specified earlier in the application, same section) or only starting from the classifying period of my 5-year residency? I may not remember exact dates in 2006-2008

[secret.simon]

1. Is it even a good idea? The way I look at it, I pay 65GBP to get PR and at least some of the basic stuff will be checked before I splash ~1300 for Citizenship (I miss the 960 price from 2 years ago!)

It is now a requirement (since November 2015) for you to get a PR card before applying for naturalisation. The PR card is required as proof that you have acquired PR. So, really, there is no choice in this matter.

Re the form, there is no legal requirement to even fill in a form. A letter with the relevant details would suffice, so long as it is accompanied by the fee.

However, if the application is in an unconventional format (such as a letter), it is harder work for the caseworker to work through the details and hence you would not be surprised if it is pushed to the back of the queue.

You can use one of the older forms on the Home Office website as they would ask for the same relevant information without the extraneous bit.

[ohara]

You can't apply for PR; it is acquired automatically after 5 years of continuously exercising treaty rights.

It is not mandatory to have any sort of PR documentation, but since 12th November 2015 it has been a requirement to submit a document proving you have PR when you apply for British citizenship.

You don't have to use the EEA(PR) form. You can use an old form. Have a look at this one which is a tweaked version of a much older, simpler HO form made by a user of this forum.

WRS was abolished in April 2011 so it was not required after that date. If you have been working continuously since then (or before), you should acquire PR in May 2016. Then you can apply for a document certifying PR.

You only need to show evidence for 5 years, so just use May 2011 to May 2016. Don't bother mentioning the WRS. The above linked form does not ask for absences, but if you have been working continuously to date, you obviously haven't been out of the country for a long period of time.

[noajthan]

Note if you have ambitions for privilege of citizenship, once you have acquired PR status you will have to wait 12 months (in that settled state) before applying to naturalise.
That is assuming you are not married to a BC and so will apply under section 6(1) of BNA.

[edga]

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes I remember about the 12-month period unfortunately. I have been refused the citizenship once due to lack of registration under WRS with one of the employers during the extension that probably not many people knew about

Yes I have been working continuously for the last 5 years, almost at the same place (change job 1st September 2011) so it will cover only two employers which would also make it a lot simpler..

So let me get this right:

1. I use the older EEA3 Form
2. My period will cover May 2011 - May 2016
3. I mention two employments of which I include my contracts, P60s and all payslips ? (they say recent, does it mean the recent from current employer, only one?)
4. No need to mention about absences
5. Attaching the ID - my current one expired and I have to go to Poland to apply for a new one - will it be better to use passport instead of a fresh ID?
6. Do I need to do the biometric stuff right now or next year before applying for citizenship?
7. Also I was working between May - September 2011 with an employer that never produced P45, do I attach payslips for those few months? I do have all the P60s from 2012-2016

[edga]

Also do you know how long do they keep the ID/Passport for? It's such a hassle with getting new ID so I would give them my passport but if they keep it for few months then I can't travel..

[ohara]

So let me get this right:

1. I use the older EEA3 Form You can if you want, it's much easier
2. My period will cover May 2011 - May 2016 seems fine
3. I mention two employments of which I include my contracts, P60s and all payslips ? (they say recent, does it mean the recent from current employer, only one?) Include all P60's covering the 5 year period and also a couple of pay slips from each year
4. No need to mention about absences Unless you have a lot, then no
5. Attaching the ID - my current one expired and I have to go to Poland to apply for a new one - will it be better to use passport instead of a fresh ID? Needs to be a valid ID
6. Do I need to do the biometric stuff right now or next year before applying for citizenship? Biometric enrolment is not required for EEA citizens applying for EEA residence documentation
7. Also I was working between May - September 2011 with an employer that never produced P45, do I attach payslips for those few months? I do have all the P60s from 2012-2016 Why didn't you get a P45?

[edga]

I don't have P45 because that employer was the same that didn't care to register me for WRS etc. - in other words, despite being a "businesswoman" she didn't care about the little things.

Basically my P60 for year 2011-2012 is lower in terms of tax paid than it should be.. the employer doesn't exist anymore, what should I do?

I think officially I had 3 employers in June 2011 the company "went bust" and they changed the name of the company - but I don't have the contract for that third one. Are payslips good enough?


My current employer changed my contract couple of times due to my promotions (I'm on my 4th right now). Do I have to submit all contracts or only the first one?

[noajthan]

I don't have P45 because that employer was the same that didn't care to register me for WRS etc. - in other words, despite being a "businesswoman" she didn't care about the little things.

Basically my P60 for year 2011-2012 is lower in terms of tax paid than it should be.. the employer doesn't exist anymore, what should I do?

I think officially I had 3 employers in June 2011 the company "went bust" and they changed the name of the company - but I don't have the contract for that third one. Are payslips good enough?

My current employer changed my contract couple of times due to my promotions (I'm on my 4th right now). Do I have to submit all contracts or only the first one?

You need good if not unimpeachable documentary supporting evidence to back your case.
As you have evidently discovered HO plays hardball and doesn't take prisoners.

If you don't have more than adequate documentary supporting evidence for a particular period you may be setting yourself up for a fall.
Thanks to your dodgy businesswoman employer you may be better off sacrificing the first 2011 period of employment.

Don't give HO the Spam of 'wriggle room' to deny you with.

[noajthan]

Also do you know how long do they keep the ID/Passport for? It's such a hassle with getting new ID so I would give them my passport but if they keep it for few months then I can't travel..

Request password back after filing the application. Simples.

[edga]

I don't have P45 because that employer was the same that didn't care to register me for WRS etc. - in other words, despite being a "businesswoman" she didn't care about the little things.

Basically my P60 for year 2011-2012 is lower in terms of tax paid than it should be.. the employer doesn't exist anymore, what should I do?

I think officially I had 3 employers in June 2011 the company "went bust" and they changed the name of the company - but I don't have the contract for that third one. Are payslips good enough?

My current employer changed my contract couple of times due to my promotions (I'm on my 4th right now). Do I have to submit all contracts or only the first one?

You need good if not unimpeachable documentary supporting evidence to back your case.
As you have evidently discovered HO plays hardball and doesn't take prisoners.

If you don't have more than adequate documentary supporting evidence for a particular period you may be setting yourself up for a fall.
Thanks to your dodgy businesswoman employer you may be better off sacrificing the first 2011 period of employment.

Don't give HO the Spam of 'wriggle room' to deny you with.

I'm assuming PaySlips aren't good enough. At the moment it would look like follows:

1. 01/05/2011 - 31/06/2011 - Employer #1 I have the contract + payslips
2. 01/07/2011 - 23/08/2011 - Employer #1b (different company name) Payslips only
3. 05/09/2011 - present - Employer #3 All contracts (incl position changes), all P60s (2012,2013,2014,2015), few payslips from each year

How does it look?

[noajthan]

[I'm assuming PaySlips aren't good enough. At the moment it would look like follows:

1. 01/05/2011 - 31/06/2011 - Employer #1 I have the contract + payslips
2. 01/07/2011 - 23/08/2011 - Employer #1b (different company name) Payslips only
3. 05/09/2011 - present - Employer #3 All contracts (incl position changes), all P60s (2012,2013,2014,2015), few payslips from each year

How does it look?

It may be adequate.
Do you have any other work-related letters or documents from this period?
eg job offer, promotion or grade or payrise-related types of letters etc?

You have a short gap between #2 & #3 but its less than 30 days so it may be accepted.

Were you paying tax & NI (via company) for each job?
If any doubt on that suggest contacting HMRC for your tax & NI record; they should have it available for 5 years ago.

Job #3 seems your strongest in terms of evidence.
If risk-averse I'd suggest waiting until September; use Sept 2011 - Sept 2016 as your most likely qualifying period in which you've acquired PR.

[edga]

Hmm unfortunately I don't have any other work-related documents from that period as it was only two months..

23/08 - 05/09 this is the period where I left my job because of death of my mum and on 22nd I got another job but I postponed the start date to get myself straight. I hope I don't have to prove that!

As for the 1b employer - I think I was paying tax and NI, since I have it on payslips, however I think my rate wasn't right and two years later I had to repay 200 quid or something.

How do I contact HMRC for those records? Everywhere I look online they say you can't obtain P45 or P60 from them?

In terms of risk, I realise that. Wanted to wait till September but I've already waited for so long since my Citizenship rejection so would like to at least try to get it now.. I guess if I could get anything from HMRC from that 2-month period that would make the application less-risky..

[noajthan]

Hmm unfortunately I don't have any other work-related documents from that period as it was only two months..

23/08 - 05/09 this is the period where I left my job because of death of my mum and on 22nd I got another job but I postponed the start date to get myself straight. I hope I don't have to prove that!

As for the 1b employer - I think I was paying tax and NI, since I have it on payslips, however I think my rate wasn't right and two years later I had to repay 200 quid or something.

How do I contact HMRC for those records? Everywhere I look online they say you can't obtain P45 or P60 from them?

In terms of risk, I realise that. Wanted to wait till September but I've already waited for so long since my Citizenship rejection so would like to at least try to get it now.. I guess if I could get anything from HMRC from that 2-month period that would make the application less-risky..

For HMRC records, suggest search in forum to see which links other members have used or try one or more of these links:
https://www.gov.uk/get-proof-employment-history
&
https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ry-request

[edga]

Thank you enormously. I already sent the request for National Insurance, and next week I'll send the employment request form. I assume once I receive confirmation fro HMRC that will be enough proof, with my other documentation to submit my PR request?

[edga]

Why would they need a covering letter when applying for the Employment History? What am I supposed to say in such letter?