Naturalisation (English Requirements URGENT)

[ifti12]

I got my ILR after 28 October 2013 i.e on 22-March-2014 and fullfilled the requirement of Life in UK and Language requirement(degree taught in english).

I submitted my Citizenship application today at Redbridge and use the option for English language mentioned below.

"In fact, if you applied for ILR after 28 October 2013, there is no need to provide anything as within the form, there is a tick box option that states that English was already satisfied for ILR after 28 October 2013. Use this option."

But I also brought my letter from university that my degree was in English and used the same letter in initial TIER-1, EXTENSION AND ILR(AFTER 28 OCTOBER 2013). During appointment the lady called someone has given my BRP number to him and information about my letter and adviced me that this letter is no more accepted and your application will be refused which shocked me. She said you need to fill the non disclaimer form that you won't claim for your money from redbridge if application is refused.

I explained "ILR after 28 October 2013" option in the form which I have used couple of times but she was keep telling me that application will be refused. So I signed the disclaimer form.

Any advice? Should I pass ESOL and send the certificate or will I be okay????

Thanks
ifti

[ukswus]

Did you also provide a print-out from PBC? This print-out, plus the original degree certificate, should have been enough (although, technically speaking, I agree that the fact that you have passed this requirement after October 2013, should have been sufficient as well). The application form clearly allows for this, so they cannot fault you for not following it.

[theprideofpak]

I don't see this an issue, if you provided them with a fresh letter from the university which clearly states that you did this degree etc etc, and you have provided this proof in your ILR, then its not a big deal. You didn't mention that if you still sent the application form or you did not? If you have sent it, for the safe side, you can send (as further documents in registered post with your reference number, surely you'll have to wait to get the acknowledgement letter for that) them the original degree certificate if you have, otherwise you can send them final transcript stamped and signed by uni staff would be more than enough.

[ifti12]

Did you also provide a print-out from PBC? This print-out, plus the original degree certificate, should have been enough (although, technically speaking, I agree that the fact that you have passed this requirement after October 2013, should have been sufficient as well). The application form clearly allows for this, so they cannot fault you for not following it.

Hi ukswus,

Thanks for your reply. I haven't submitted PBC and degree certificate. I was not even thinking to bring 'letter from university saying degree was in English' because the form has clearly got following options for English language.

a) passed ESOL FROM bla bla OR
b) got that certificate OR
c) I met KOLL requirement in settlement after 28-October-2013.

So I tick option C) and why do they need any proof (PBC, Degree or letter from uni) if the requirements are already met.

Thanks anyway I'll wait for the outcome.

[usman81]

Ifti - Whilst i agree with you that there should have been no need to send degree again since it was submitted at the time of ILR. However, HO makes their own rules and if you read the guidance it clearly says degree must be sent. Also application form has option to tick "KOLL was met after 28th october 13 at the time of ILR" but that does not imply not sending degree.

Read in red below a cut out from guidance.

Evidence of knowledge of Language and of Life in the UK
• Letter confirming success in the Life in the UK Test, stamped and signed by
the Test Supervisor; and either
• Certificate showing that you have a speaking and listening qualification in
English at B1 CEFR or higher, or an equivalent level qualification. (If you sat a
Home Office approved test you may not have a certificate, but should ensure
that you state the test number at section 1 of the form); OR
• Your original degree certificate and one of the following:
16
1. A print out from the points-based calculator, with the equivalent level of your
degree and the level of English
2. An English language Assessment (ELA) from UK NARIC (this will also show
us that UK NARIC are content that your qualification is equivalent to a UK
degree)
3. A Statement of Comparability (SoC) from UK NARIC confirming your
qualification is comparable to a UK degree, plus an official letter from your
university with your name, the title of the degree, and that the qualification was
taught in English.
4. An original and official certificate from your university confirming the degree
was taught or researched in a majority English-speaking country (except
Canada), plus and original letter or certificate from UK NARIC confirming that
the equivalent level of your degree, OR
• Your passport showing that you are a national of a majority English
speaking country
• Your confirmation that you met this requirement, on or after 28th October
2013, in order to obtain settlement.

[ifti12]

Ifti - Whilst i agree with you that there should have been no need to send degree again since it was submitted at the time of ILR. However, HO makes their own rules and if you read the guidance it clearly says degree must be sent. Also application form has option to tick "KOLL was met after 28th october 13 at the time of ILR" but that does not imply not sending degree.

Read in red below a cut out from guidance.

Evidence of knowledge of Language and of Life in the UK
• Letter confirming success in the Life in the UK Test, stamped and signed by
the Test Supervisor; and either
• Certificate showing that you have a speaking and listening qualification in
English at B1 CEFR or higher, or an equivalent level qualification. (If you sat a
Home Office approved test you may not have a certificate, but should ensure
that you state the test number at section 1 of the form); OR
• Your original degree certificate and one of the following:
16
1. A print out from the points-based calculator, with the equivalent level of your
degree and the level of English
2. An English language Assessment (ELA) from UK NARIC (this will also show
us that UK NARIC are content that your qualification is equivalent to a UK
degree)
3. A Statement of Comparability (SoC) from UK NARIC confirming your
qualification is comparable to a UK degree, plus an official letter from your
university with your name, the title of the degree, and that the qualification was
taught in English.
4. An original and official certificate from your university confirming the degree
was taught or researched in a majority English-speaking country (except
Canada), plus and original letter or certificate from UK NARIC confirming that
the equivalent level of your degree, OR
• Your passport showing that you are a national of a majority English
speaking country
• Your confirmation that you met this requirement, on or after 28th October
2013, in order to obtain settlement.

Hi Usman,

You are absolutely right. what do you suggest now? Should I send my original degree once I receive
acknowledgement? Or I can pass the ESOL on this Sat as well and send the ESOL certificate in 5-10 working days.
Where is the points-based calculator LINK please?

Thanks
Muhammad

[usman81]

Ifti - Whilst i agree with you that there should have been no need to send degree again since it was submitted at the time of ILR. However, HO makes their own rules and if you read the guidance it clearly says degree must be sent. Also application form has option to tick "KOLL was met after 28th october 13 at the time of ILR" but that does not imply not sending degree.

Read in red below a cut out from guidance.

Evidence of knowledge of Language and of Life in the UK
• Letter confirming success in the Life in the UK Test, stamped and signed by
the Test Supervisor; and either
• Certificate showing that you have a speaking and listening qualification in
English at B1 CEFR or higher, or an equivalent level qualification. (If you sat a
Home Office approved test you may not have a certificate, but should ensure
that you state the test number at section 1 of the form); OR
• Your original degree certificate and one of the following:
16
1. A print out from the points-based calculator, with the equivalent level of your
degree and the level of English
2. An English language Assessment (ELA) from UK NARIC (this will also show
us that UK NARIC are content that your qualification is equivalent to a UK
degree)
3. A Statement of Comparability (SoC) from UK NARIC confirming your
qualification is comparable to a UK degree, plus an official letter from your
university with your name, the title of the degree, and that the qualification was
taught in English.
4. An original and official certificate from your university confirming the degree
was taught or researched in a majority English-speaking country (except
Canada), plus and original letter or certificate from UK NARIC confirming that
the equivalent level of your degree, OR
• Your passport showing that you are a national of a majority English
speaking country
• Your confirmation that you met this requirement, on or after 28th October
2013, in order to obtain settlement.

Hi Usman,

You are absolutely right. what do you suggest now? Should I send my original degree once I receive
acknowledgement? Or I can pass the ESOL on this Sat as well and send the ESOL certificate in 5-10 working days.
Where is the points-based calculator LINK please?

Thanks
Muhammad

When you have a valid UK degree then why going for ESOL? Read carefully, if you ticked (Your confirmation that you met this requirement, on or after 28th October2013, in order to obtain settlement) then you don't need PBC either. In any case you can print PBC, google the link for PBC.

You don't have a reference number for your application yet hence can't do a blind post to HO. I would recommend to wait for acknowledgement letter and then post degree via special delivery. See if somebody has another piece of advice for you.

[solospy]

Ifti - Whilst i agree with you that there should have been no need to send degree again since it was submitted at the time of ILR. However, HO makes their own rules and if you read the guidance it clearly says degree must be sent. Also application form has option to tick "KOLL was met after 28th october 13 at the time of ILR" but that does not imply not sending degree.

Read in red below a cut out from guidance.

Evidence of knowledge of Language and of Life in the UK
• Letter confirming success in the Life in the UK Test, stamped and signed by
the Test Supervisor; and either
• Certificate showing that you have a speaking and listening qualification in
English at B1 CEFR or higher, or an equivalent level qualification. (If you sat a
Home Office approved test you may not have a certificate, but should ensure
that you state the test number at section 1 of the form); OR
• Your original degree certificate and one of the following:
16
1. A print out from the points-based calculator, with the equivalent level of your
degree and the level of English
2. An English language Assessment (ELA) from UK NARIC (this will also show
us that UK NARIC are content that your qualification is equivalent to a UK
degree)
3. A Statement of Comparability (SoC) from UK NARIC confirming your
qualification is comparable to a UK degree, plus an official letter from your
university with your name, the title of the degree, and that the qualification was
taught in English.
4. An original and official certificate from your university confirming the degree
was taught or researched in a majority English-speaking country (except
Canada), plus and original letter or certificate from UK NARIC confirming that
the equivalent level of your degree, OR
• Your passport showing that you are a national of a majority English
speaking country
• Your confirmation that you met this requirement, on or after 28th October
2013, in order to obtain settlement.

Hi Usman,

You are absolutely right. what do you suggest now? Should I send my original degree once I receive
acknowledgement? Or I can pass the ESOL on this Sat as well and send the ESOL certificate in 5-10 working days.
Where is the points-based calculator LINK please?

Thanks
Muhammad

Usman is wrong i am afraid. There is a big "OR" at the end of each requirement. If you have obtained ILR after 28th Oct 2013 then there is no need to send anything to prove you knowledge of language. Just need to tick the box in the form.

[usman81]

Ifti - Whilst i agree with you that there should have been no need to send degree again since it was submitted at the time of ILR. However, HO makes their own rules and if you read the guidance it clearly says degree must be sent. Also application form has option to tick "KOLL was met after 28th october 13 at the time of ILR" but that does not imply not sending degree.

Read in red below a cut out from guidance.

Evidence of knowledge of Language and of Life in the UK
• Letter confirming success in the Life in the UK Test, stamped and signed by
the Test Supervisor; and either
• Certificate showing that you have a speaking and listening qualification in
English at B1 CEFR or higher, or an equivalent level qualification. (If you sat a
Home Office approved test you may not have a certificate, but should ensure
that you state the test number at section 1 of the form); OR
• Your original degree certificate and one of the following:
16
1. A print out from the points-based calculator, with the equivalent level of your
degree and the level of English
2. An English language Assessment (ELA) from UK NARIC (this will also show
us that UK NARIC are content that your qualification is equivalent to a UK
degree)
3. A Statement of Comparability (SoC) from UK NARIC confirming your
qualification is comparable to a UK degree, plus an official letter from your
university with your name, the title of the degree, and that the qualification was
taught in English.
4. An original and official certificate from your university confirming the degree
was taught or researched in a majority English-speaking country (except
Canada), plus and original letter or certificate from UK NARIC confirming that
the equivalent level of your degree, OR
• Your passport showing that you are a national of a majority English
speaking country
• Your confirmation that you met this requirement, on or after 28th October
2013, in order to obtain settlement.

Hi Usman,

You are absolutely right. what do you suggest now? Should I send my original degree once I receive
acknowledgement? Or I can pass the ESOL on this Sat as well and send the ESOL certificate in 5-10 working days.
Where is the points-based calculator LINK please?

Thanks
Muhammad

Usman is wrong i am afraid. There is a big "OR" at the end of each requirement. If you have obtained ILR after 28th Oct 2013 then there is no need to send anything to prove you knowledge of language. Just need to tick the box in the form.

Read thoroughly before stating "wrong" There is a BIG "and either" condition. It's LIUK AND one from B1 certificate or Degree

[solospy]

I repeat "If you have obtained ILR after 28th Oct 2013 then there is no need to send anything to prove you knowledge of language. Just need to tick the box in the form"

[ifti12]

I repeat "If you have obtained ILR after 28th Oct 2013 then there is no need to send anything to prove you knowledge of language. Just need to tick the box in the form"

Hi solospy,

I think technically you are right and this is what Usman has mentioned but its HO most intelligent department.

here is the summary of guide line.

I think I agree with Usman its like this.

Life in UK ( AND EITHER)

• 1) B1 CERF OR
  2) ORIGINAL DGREE and one of the following

• a) print out of PBC OR
  b) ELA from UK NARIC OR
  c) SOC FROM UK NARIC OR
  d) letter from university with UK NARIC equivalent OR

• i) passport showing English speaking county
  ii) met 28th October 2013 requirements

Now for English language if I select ii) met 28th October 2013 requirements it comes under (2) ORIGINAL DGREE and one of the following) and NOT an independent item in English language list.

Again technically I don't need to send anything and I agree with you but as per guide I think I have to send degree as well.

Anyway guys for safe side I am appearing in ESOL on SAT and once I'll recieve the acknowledgement I'll send my original ESOL certificate as top up as I don't think I need it.

Usman I don't have UK degree. My degree is from Pakistan and I got english points on the basis of "degree taught in english" in TIER-1 Extension and same in settlement on 22-03-2014.

Thanks for you help.

[theprideofpak]

Guys guys guys.....if the home office already have your details of LIUK and english knowledge thingi...then why they keep asking for the same details over and over again? Why have they included the LIUK test details in AN forms if they already have these details from your ILR application....???
There is no harm in including the degree with your application just to make sure you didn't leave anything unturned, especially when they asking for such details...

[usman81]

Guys guys guys.....if the home office already have your details of LIUK and english knowledge thingi...then why they keep asking for the same details over and over again? Why have they included the LIUK test details in AN forms if they already have these details from your ILR application....???
There is no harm in including the degree with your application just to make sure you didn't leave anything unturned, especially when they asking for such details...

Nobody is pushing anyone to his/her way of thinking. This forum is for individuals to share their own interpretation of immigration laws hence no binding on others. Read page 15 and 16 and I am sure that will answer all questions, why this is mandatory.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... y_2015.pdf

[sagareva]

look everyone calm down

you do not have to submit anything if you qualified for ILR after 28th October 2013 -- the Redbridge woman was just crazy

that being said, with my clients I always suggest they send in original English evidence even if they got ILR after 28th October, original test certificates OR copies of the degree (certified by me)

but this is just if it's no trouble to the applicant and to make it look better, if it does.

just sit tight IMHO they cannot refuse you based on that

NCS people are often full of it, because they have very poor training or grasp of issues tbh. A slightly more advanced bunch, immigration advisors like myself charge about the same and can also certify copies, but arguably you get less BS ))

[ukswus]

Guys guys guys.....if the home office already have your details of LIUK and english knowledge thingi...then why they keep asking for the same details over and over again? Why have they included the LIUK test details in AN forms if they already have these details from your ILR application....???
There is no harm in including the degree with your application just to make sure you didn't leave anything unturned, especially when they asking for such details...

I agree- no need to try and see logic in their requirements... Better to just give them what they ask...

[usman81]

Gents - This is confusing and I am only trying to help others and also improve my understanding as well. If you read the AN form degree/B1 certificate is not needed if ILR was earned after october 2013. However, GUIDANCE (page 15 and 16) notes have it all and it is stated absolutely clear in plain english that degree/B1 certificate must be sent along irrespective of when ILR was obtained.

[ash2402]

I got my ILR after 28 October 2013 i.e on 22-March-2014 and fullfilled the requirement of Life in UK and Language requirement(degree taught in english).

I submitted my Citizenship application today at Redbridge and use the option for English language mentioned below.

"In fact, if you applied for ILR after 28 October 2013, there is no need to provide anything as within the form, there is a tick box option that states that English was already satisfied for ILR after 28 October 2013. Use this option."

But I also brought my letter from university that my degree was in English and used the same letter in initial TIER-1, EXTENSION AND ILR(AFTER 28 OCTOBER 2013). During appointment the lady called someone has given my BRP number to him and information about my letter and adviced me that this letter is no more accepted and your application will be refused which shocked me. She said you need to fill the non disclaimer form that you won't claim for your money from redbridge if application is refused.

I explained "ILR after 28 October 2013" option in the form which I have used couple of times but she was keep telling me that application will be refused. So I signed the disclaimer form.

Any advice? Should I pass ESOL and send the certificate or will I be okay????

Thanks
ifti

Hi Ifti,

Hope you are well! I am in same situation what you were. Please let me know what happened to your citizenship application. Did you supply any further document to them ?

Regards,
Ash

[noajthan]

...

Hi Ifti,

Hope you are well! I am in same situation what you were. Please let me know what happened to your citizenship application. Did you supply any further document to them ?

Regards,
Ash

Member Ifti has not been active in the community since June last year.
The resolution of Ifti's case (if it got resolved) may or may not apply to you.

The proof of English rules changed during November last year anyway.

If you really are in same situation. suggest read Forum FAQS on this vital matter:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 98118.html