Visa refused advice please

[boomish]

My daughter & her husband to be has just received a notice their fiance visa has been refused because of finances. Her income is complicated because she has been studying and receives monies as a combination of part of stipends, grants, tuition fee's and study pay from the church of England, however the total does come to 17k and as she doesn't pay tax on the grants this is all net income.
She will also graduate this year and has a full time job already on place that pays over the 18k requested figure and comes with accommodation.

I can only presume they think her pay is not net so have refused it, has anyone got any advice before we appeal? I'm not sure who we can go to to check the figures & we can't afford a lawyer.

I'd really appreciate any advice , this is so upsetting. They are an honest hard working couple that just want to get married.
She is a UK born citizen & he is from NZ.

[Wanderer]

My daughter & her husband to be has just received a notice their fiance visa has been refused because of finances. Her income is complicated because she has been studying and receives monies as a combination of part of stipends, grants, tuition fee's and study pay from the church of England, however the total does come to 17k and as she doesn't pay tax on the grants this is all net income.
She will also graduate this year and has a full time job already on place that pays over the 18k requested figure and comes with accommodation.

I can only presume they think her pay is not net so have refused it, has anyone got any advice before we appeal? I'm not sure who we can go to to check the figures & we can't afford a lawyer.

I'd really appreciate any advice , this is so upsetting. They are an honest hard working couple that just want to get married.

No point in appealing, the refusal was correct. She needs to have earned £18,600 pa gross for the last six months, and it's a tick box requirement. No tick, no visa.

Just have to wait until she's fulfilled the requirement.

[CR001]

UKVI base their financial calculations on pre tax income. She would need to meet the requirement of £18,600pa, so appears her income fall short.

When you say 'tuition fees', do you mean student finance loan? If yes, this would not be taken in account for meeting the financial requirement.

[boomish]

Many thanks for the replies..none of the income was loans, they are stipends and counted as income, this is an equivalent tax free net income of 17k .

The UK government form FM 1.7 shows the £18600 Gross level of financial requirement is equivalent to £15,800, so her gross earnings would be a lot more than that. Or am I getting this wrong? from the example they show on the form it seems the same, as she doesn't pay tax we don't know the gross income amount.

[Wanderer]

Many thanks for the replies..none of the income was loans, they are stipends and counted as income, this is an equivalent tax free net income of 17k .

The UK government form FM 1.7 shows the £18600 Gross level of financial requirement is equivalent to £15,800, so her gross earnings would be a lot more than that. Or am I getting this wrong? from the example they show on the form it seems the same, as she doesn't pay tax we don't know the gross income amount.

Like I said, the requirement is £18,600 pa (£1550 per month) gross for the last six months.

On assessing the application the caseworker has no leeway to use his own judgement, it's tick or no tick I'm afraid. You can argue the fairness/unfairness of it all but them the rules.

Incidentally, you say 'husband' and also 'fiancé' - are they married or not?

[CR001]

Does he by any chance have a UK born grandparent?

How old is he? If he is young enough, why doesn't he apply for a Tier 5 YMS visa?

[CR001]

Incidentally, you say 'husband' and also 'fiancé' - are they married or not?

OP said 'husband to be'

[Casa]

Does he by any chance have a UK born grandparent?

How old is he? If he is young enough, why doesn't he apply for a Tier 5 YMS visa?

There may be a problem with applying for a Tier 5 YMS visa following the recent fiance visa refusal. Frontier Mole recently advised in another thread:
Any mention of marriage at T5 YMS application would equal a refusal.
If you contemplate T5 be very very careful about your intent. If it is clearly to remain in the UK and is a route to enter to then get married; then the intent question gets raised and the credibility of your application gets hammered.

[boomish]

Many thanks for the replies..none of the income was loans, they are stipends and counted as income, this is an equivalent tax free net income of 17k .

The UK government form FM 1.7 shows the £18600 Gross level of financial requirement is equivalent to £15,800, so her gross earnings would be a lot more than that. Or am I getting this wrong? from the example they show on the form it seems the same, as she doesn't pay tax we don't know the gross income amount.

Like I said, the requirement is £18,600 pa (£1550 per month) gross for the last six months.

On assessing the application the caseworker has no leeway to use his own judgement, it's tick or no tick I'm afraid. You can argue the fairness/unfairness of it all but them the rules.

Incidentally, you say 'husband' and also 'fiancé' - are they married or not?

Thanks again for the quick reply, I put "husband to be" meaning future husband , sorry for the confusion.
Her income isn't gross
the example on the FM form:
"Those being sponsored Gross level of financial requirement - £18,600
Equivalent tax-free income -£15,800 "

She has an equivalent tax-free income of 17k so her gross equivalent if she had paid tax would be higher.
Again the example from Fm1.7
"The applicant’s partner is in receipt of a tax-free academic stipend of £12,000 a year and
also has post-tax employment income of £4,500 a year. Her combined net income is
£16,500 (£12,000 + £4,500). There are no sponsored children.
The applicant’s partner has an income which is more than the equivalent net amount
(£15,800) needed to meet the gross level of the financial requirement (£18,600)."

This is identical to her situation showing a stipend being taken as net income. so its not just the gross figure taken into account.

I don't think any of it is unfair and I agree it's a simple tick box rule set, I just hope we understand the rules correctly to me reading the 2 examples we have. It says the "equivalent net income" I am contacting an accountant to see if we can get a letter to help but I'm unsure of why they would ignore this net income.
Appreciate the help so much

[CR001]

Does he by any chance have a UK born grandparent?

How old is he? If he is young enough, why doesn't he apply for a Tier 5 YMS visa?

There may be a problem with applying for a Tier 5 YMS visa following the recent fiance visa refusal. Frontier Mole recently advised in another thread:
Any mention of marriage at T5 YMS application would equal a refusal.
If you contemplate T5 be very very careful about your intent. If it is clearly to remain in the UK and is a route to enter to then get married; then the intent question gets raised and the credibility of your application gets hammered.

Ancestry would not be a problem though so might be worthwhile if the fiance has UK born grandparent(s). Maybe fiance was on YMS already or didn't think to do this rather than settlement fiance visa.

[boomish]

Thanks for the reply CR001 & Casa, I think they looked at the tier 5 YMS, his great grandma was UK so thats 1 generation too far?

[CR001]

Thanks for the reply CR001 & Casa, I think they looked at the tier 5 YMS, his great grandma was UK so thats 1 generation too far?

He would have done better doing YMS. That might not be possible now after a refused fiance visa.

Does your daughter have any savings?

[Wanderer]

Incidentally, you say 'husband' and also 'fiancé' - are they married or not?

OP said 'husband to be'

Damn, missed that!!

Or could be '..her husband, Toby?'

I'll get my coat.....

[boomish]

Thanks for the reply CR001 & Casa, I think they looked at the tier 5 YMS, his great grandma was UK so thats 1 generation too far?

He would have done better doing YMS. That might not be possible now after a refused fiance visa.

Does your daughter have any savings?

Oh gosh really? I'll look that up now, thanks for the advice, I phoned UK VISA advice but they could only advise us to write a letter asking why it was refused based on her net income. I also spoke to an accountant who said there isn't enough detail why it was refused but maybe it's because it says non-employment income.
Thanks again for the advice CR001

Edit I just spoke to him and he did already stay in UK on a YMS from 2012 to 2014 (its how they met) but does that help in anyway?

[Wanderer]

Thanks for the reply CR001 & Casa, I think they looked at the tier 5 YMS, his great grandma was UK so thats 1 generation too far?

He would have done better doing YMS. That might not be possible now after a refused fiance visa.

Does your daughter have any savings?

Oh gosh really? I'll look that up now, thanks for the advice, I phoned UK VISA advice but they could only advise us to write a letter asking why it was refused based on her net income. I also spoke to an accountant who said there isn't enough detail why it was refused but maybe it's because it says non-employment income.
Thanks again for the advice CR001

Edit I just spoke to him and he did already stay in UK on a YMS from 2012 to 2014 (its how they met) but does that help in anyway?

I think you can only have had one YMS visa in a lifetime....

Savings need to be over £62,500 if the income rules cannot be met, be liquid, have been held so for 6 months and not be loaned.

[CR001]

Can you post the exact wording of the refusal (less any personal details)?

[boomish]

Sure I think this is safe to post-
"You have stated on your appendix to form that you intend to meet the financial requirement through category 3D, the income other non-employment sources in the UK. You're applying alone and are therefore required to show that you meet the income threshold of £18,600.
However you have outlined in your sponsor has non-employment income totalling £17,332 in the past year. This is insufficient to meet the financial requirements. I acknowledge your sponsor holds the job offering paying over the required £18,600 p a. However the requirement is that you demonstrate sufficient earnings is prior to your application. Given that, as stated and demonstrated by you, your sponsors earnings have been £17,332 in the 12 months preceding your application you do not make the financial requirements.

I therefore refuse your application under paragraph etc etc"

So no mention of the fact on the form we stated the 17,332 was Tax Free income, appendix FM1.7 threshold of £15,800.
So maybe they fact it is net doesn't count as per their example..or we should have worked out what the gross estimate would be. BTW if I gifted my daughter any money in the past year does that count as income?

[CR001]

Third party sponsorship does not count.

Any 'gifted' money would have to have a paper trail and would be counted as savings, which need to be held in an accessible account for at least 6 months.

[boomish]

Third party sponsorship does not count.

Any 'gifted' money would have to have a paper trail and would be counted as savings, which need to be held in an accessible account for at least 6 months.

ahh yes and we can't really change it now, I was just thinking of ideas as her amount is so close, I can't find anything on the net about the visa net threshold income.

[CR001]

Does the fiance not qualify for any other visa in his own right (Tier 4 student, Tier 2 General)?

[boomish]

I don't think so, besides we have paid all the money for this application now. Unless anyone here has any knowledge/experience of the net threshold requirement I can only think we need to hire an immigration lawyer for advice, I'd like to check her qualification maths are correct before we appeal.

[Wanderer]

I don't think so, besides we have paid all the money for this application now. Unless anyone here has any knowledge/experience of the net threshold requirement I can only think we need to hire an immigration lawyer for advice, I'd like to check her qualification maths are correct before we appeal.

Please be advised the refusal was correct in law, an immigration lawyer (and to be honest the folks on here are infinitely better advisors than most immigration lawyers or advisors, who'll just look it up on the internet) so an appeal is a waste of time IMHO.

Plus an appeal will drag on for ages, why not wait until she meets the financial requirements?

BTW, what is the husbands visa status at the moment? Is he in the UK even?

[boomish]

I don't think so, besides we have paid all the money for this application now. Unless anyone here has any knowledge/experience of the net threshold requirement I can only think we need to hire an immigration lawyer for advice, I'd like to check her qualification maths are correct before we appeal.

Please be advised the refusal was correct in law, an immigration lawyer (and to be honest the folks on here are infinitely better advisors than most immigration lawyers or advisors, who'll just look it up on the internet) so an appeal is a waste of time IMHO.

Plus an appeal will drag on for ages, why not wait until she meets the financial requirements?

BTW, what is the husbands visa status at the moment? Is he in the UK even?

But exactly how is it correct in law? as I stated earlier her net income exceeds their stated tax free income requirement, as our accountant said if we averaged her gross figure it would be beyond 22k. Its not clear if they want they will accept the gross figure or the net figure, they both meet the requirement in FM 1.7 appendix.

I cannot see why an appeal is a waste of time unless you know why the net income is incorrect? I'd appreciate if you could explain why your stating this?

[Casa]

I'm not convinced that the calculation is incorrect.
When you lodge an appeal it will be reviewed by the Entry Clearance Manager to review the application to see if the previous decision was valid or not. They will take into consideration the points you have stated in the appeal form and any documents that you've included to support your argument that there has been an error in the decision.
If the ECM is satisfied with your objections they will grant the visa. If they don't feel there was an error the appeal will be forwarded to IAT for a full oral hearing.
I suggest you gather supporting evidence from a competent accountant of the calculation. ECMs do make mistakes and this could be an example.

Edit: I'm referring your daughter's fiance as the applicant in the use of 'you' and 'your'.

[Wanderer]

I don't think so, besides we have paid all the money for this application now. Unless anyone here has any knowledge/experience of the net threshold requirement I can only think we need to hire an immigration lawyer for advice, I'd like to check her qualification maths are correct before we appeal.

Please be advised the refusal was correct in law, an immigration lawyer (and to be honest the folks on here are infinitely better advisors than most immigration lawyers or advisors, who'll just look it up on the internet) so an appeal is a waste of time IMHO.

Plus an appeal will drag on for ages, why not wait until she meets the financial requirements?

BTW, what is the husbands visa status at the moment? Is he in the UK even?

But exactly how is it correct in law? as I stated earlier her net income exceeds their stated tax free income requirement, as our accountant said if we averaged her gross figure it would be beyond 22k. Its not clear if they want he gross figure or the net figure, they show both meet the requirement.

I cannot see why an appeal is a waste of time unless you know why the net income is incorrect? I'd appreciate if you could explain why your stating this?

Because immigration law requires the spouses income to be £18,600 pa gross, there is not provision for net to gross rounding up - that's the rule. By all means appeal, and I wish you luck, really I do, but read the forum, people are being refused ILR for assorts of reasons even for amounts as low as £150 discrepancy in tax.