Illegal for EEA husband to be ID-less while I apply for RC?

[chomsky]

Hello,

I've recently arrived in the UK on an EEA family permit, and I know I need to apply for a residence card as soon as possible before the referendum. However, my husband's passport was about to expire, and his old passport is currently with the Italian authorities while he waits for a new one. We're not sure how long this will take.

This means that I would need to send his identity card with my application, and he would be without official ID for possibly quite a while. He is extremely worried about this. I know this isn't the sort of question that's generally posted in this section, but does anyone know if it is legal for an Italian citizen without a registration certificate to live and work in the UK without ID? He has an Italian driver's license, but he doesn't think that is sufficient.

I've tried to look this up using various combinations of search terms, but I can't find anything at all on this, so any advice would be extremely appreciated. We are planning on moving this month, so it's especially important that he has valid ID to show the new landlord.

[mard2530]

After you submit your application and get your Biometric enrolled and CoA issued you are able to request your husbands ID back. It could take a month after you send the application.

[chomsky]

After you submit your application and get your Biometric enrolled and CoA issued you are able to request your husbands ID back. It could take a month after you send the application.

We are definitely planning on doing this, but our concern is that he'd be unable to prove his legal residence during that month (or two, or three, judging from the recent timelines). I can't find anything online about whether a photocopied passport + driver's license is sufficient.

[mard2530]

Go to post office a get a verified copy of passports and ID. Here in UK almost always the driving licence and a credit / debit card is enough for identification proposal.

But getting a verified copy of passports and I'D would work. As soon as you get your CoA ask for your IDS back.

I've been "undocumented" since January, still waiting my RC, I asked my passport three weeks ago but they didn't send it as they said they can't send it until the decision has made

[Richard W]

I know this isn't the sort of question that's generally posted in this section, but does anyone know if it is legal for an Italian citizen without a registration certificate to live and work in the UK without ID? He has an Italian driver's license, but he doesn't think that is sufficient.

I've tried to look this up using various combinations of search terms, but I can't find anything at all on this, so any advice would be extremely appreciated. We are planning on moving this month, so it's especially important that he has valid ID to show the new landlord.

Your husband would be legal. While a passport was needed for his initial 3 months in the UK (assuming he was resident on the basis of being an EEA national), it's not needed for the residence while he exercises treaty rights.

The right to rent is far trickier. Your husband could cobble together testimonials from approved sources - see the User Guide. He could also ask the Landlords Checking Service (the reference is to the Code of Practice) to confirm that his ID card is with your RC application.

It's not clear to me that you aren't about to become homeless. Common sense says that your EEA FP should be enough, and indeed there is a good case that your passport is a "current passport or other ‘travel document’ endorsed to show that the holder is allowed to stay in the UK for a time-limited period", as both the code of practice and the relevant statutory instrument, the Immigration (Residential Accommodation) (Prescribed Requirements and Codes of Practice) Order 2014 puts it. The statutory instrument has been amended. As you will depend on the Landlords Checking Service, the odds are good provided the Home Office does not deny having received your application, e.g. because you have not yet enrolled your biometrics as part of the application.

If you had your EEA FP in your possession, you might encounter a problem, for the User Guide requires that any endorsement in your passport "should clearly explain that the holder has leave to be in the UK for a limited time, and show the date that leave expires". The EEA FP fails in this regard.

You could conceivably assemble appropriate testimonials.

[vinny]

If you had your EEA FP in your possession, you might encounter a problem, for the User Guide requires that any endorsement in your passport "should clearly explain that the holder has leave to be in the UK for a limited time, and show the date that leave expires". The EEA FP fails in this regard.

An EEA family permit is normally valid for six months and has an expiry date.

[Richard W]

If you had your EEA FP in your possession, you might encounter a problem, for the User Guide requires that any endorsement in your passport "should clearly explain that the holder has leave to be in the UK for a limited time, and show the date that leave expires". The EEA FP fails in this regard.

An EEA family permit is normally valid for six months and has an expiry date.

But where does it clearly explain that the holder has leave to be in the UK?

With the benefit of a little knowledge, someone presented with one could even argue that it doesn't grant leave. Even you, Vinny, had to think twice about its status with regard to work.

[chomsky]

Thanks everyone,

I think we will send the application off soon and get a certified copy of his ID card before doing so (just to be safe). This has really eased our worries, so thank you for the advice.

With regard to my EEA FP, I believe that I will be fine. I met with an agency today and they saw my passport - they didn't question it, but if they do, I will show them the directive that allows me to live and work here.

[Obie]

Myself and Vinny has explained this before, and I do hope we may not have to explain it again.

A person with an enforceable community law right do not require leave to remain.

An EEA family permit,during the currency of its validity, is evidence that its holder has enforceable community law rights in the United Kingdom, under the EEA Regulation, and hence does not require leave to remain or work in the United Kingdom during its validity.

Vinny's position on this point, appears to be consistent from the outset.

With the utmost respect Richard,I get the impression that it was you that was seeking to muddy the water .

[Richard W]

With the utmost respect Richard,I get the impression that it was you that was seeking to muddy the water .

My worry is the small-scale landlord who does not employ a professional letting agent - 'the man on the Clapham omnibus'. He is unlikely to go against the official User Guide. Fortunately, the OP seems to be dealing with a letting agent who will accept an EEA FP.

A person with an enforceable community law right do not require leave to remain.

Right-to-rent fines are based on strict liability - being deceived by an impersonator is not in itself a defence. That is why statutory excuses are needed; the Home Office doesn't want to concern itself with justice if it can possibly be avoided.

It's the User Guide which introduced the word 'leave', not me. Fortunately, the Statutory Instrument (and the Code of Practice) don't use that word with regard to endorsements in passports.

Vinny's position on this point, appears to be consistent from the outset.

Let me remind you of two of his posts on the status of an EEA FP with regards to statutory excuses for employment in the past few days:

Post 1::

"An EEA family permit cannot be used as a statutory excuse for employment because it is not explicitly in the list of acceptable documents."

Post 2:
"On further thoughts, if EEA family permits may be included in List B, Group 1

List B, Group 1 wrote:
A current passport endorsed to show that the holder is allowed to stay in the UK and is currently allowed to do the type of work in question.

Then it's possible for employers to use them as an excuse."

If he's uncertain, what hope is there for the man on the Clapham omnibus?

[vinny]

My first answer was because I couldn't find any explicit mention of "EEA family permit" in the list of acceptable documents. However, I later realized that it may be implicitly included in List B, Group 1.

I agree with you that the relationship between an employee's right to work and an employer's statutory excuse, with reference to the employer's guidance, may not be one-to-one.

[vinny]

"Leave to remain" is not applicable for people under the EEA regulations.

[Obie]

An employer must be minded of Okuoimose, that is the law and not a guidance, as made clear in the judgement.