Eea4 pr refused (After Divorce )

[Ifycamilla]

Hi everyone. My eea4 pr application was refused yesterday. Homeoffice returned all my documents plus passport and then refused my application. .I was married to my husband for 5yrs, he he was self employed. All self employed documents was included in my application, both tax and national insurance contribution all paid for 5yrs. The reason home office gave was that they believe that my marriage to my husband was a marriage of conviniece. . This is because during my marriage with my ex husband my letters and my ex husband mails such as my pay slips and my ex husbands self employed mails were redirect to my ex boyfriends house because our mails were missing because we lived in a one room shared house. My ex boyfriend Ilthat I had a child with was also married to an eea nat

[Ifycamilla]

Before I got married to my eea ex husband, I had a son with my ex boyfriend who later got married to an eea national. He also put in an application and was given 5yrs residency visa and later was given a permanent residency. At the time that I was in marriage with my eea husband, we used my ex boyfriends address as a correspondence for our letters because me and my ex husband lived in a shared house and some of our mails were missing so we decided to approach my ex boyfriend to use his adress as a correspondence. Home office refused my application saying that they suspect that our marriage was a marriage of convinience. My passport and all my documentswere all returned,, they vindictive has asked me to appeal if I want. Please obi, viny and all members. I need your advice on this. Thanks

[Casa]

The Case Worker probably suspects that you came to an arrangement where you and your boyfriend (the father of your son) both married EEA nationals in order to secure residency...but continued to live together.
Your challenge is to prove that this wasn't the case.

[Ifycamilla]

The Case Worker probably suspects that you came to an arrangement where you and your boyfriend (the father of your son) both married EEA nationals in order to secure residency...but continued to live together.
Your challenge is to prove that this wasn't the case.

Thanks Casa for the reply .I appreciate. But please how do I prove to the home office that I was on a genuine relationship? I was given a 5yrs residency visa that expired last year.I lived with my ex husband off and on until we divorced. He was self employed and excised his treaty right for the period of our marriage. Please I need your advice. I'm so stressed and don't know what to do

[Casa]

What do you mean by "I lived with my ex husband off and on until we divorced" ?

[Ifycamilla]

What do you mean by "I lived with my ex husband off and on until we divorced" ?

. Thanks Casa. On 3 occasions I had some misunderstanding with my ex husband, and on those 3 occasions, he left home twice and came back after 5 weeks, and on one occasion I left home for 3 months before we made up..the reason we used my ex boyfriends adress as a corresponds was because our letters were missing. Me and my husband at the time could not afford our own house so we shared a house.

[Ifycamilla]

Please members, senior members and moderators, I need your advice on this. Should I appeal this case or send a reconsideration ? Thank you all

[noajthan]

Please members, senior members and moderators, I need your advice on this. Should I appeal this case or send a reconsideration ? Thank you all

Are you an EEA or non-EEA national?
Have you had any RC issued to you previously?

What is your immigration status now?
As you are divorced have you previously been granted ROR or do you have any other EEA sponsor?

Have any removal proceedings been started or served on you or (ex) hubby?

What does the refusal letter say exactly? (don't post identifying details).
Does the letter state you have appeal rights?

On what grounds do you think you can apply for a reconsideration? what procedural or admin errors do you think HO have made?.
For example...
The burden of proof seems to be with HO on proving your mooc.
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/court-o ... me-office/

Is either party aware they are (or may be) in a mooc?

Did you submit a genuine, unaltered marriage certificate?

Were you called in for interview?

How did HO know about the previous bf at previous address?

Where does son live (who with)?
Who has responsibility for son? (sole or shared?)

[Ifycamilla]

Please members, senior members and moderators, I need your advice on this. Should I appeal this case or send a reconsideration ? Thank you all

Are you an EEA or non-EEA national?
Have you had any RC issued to you previously?

What is your immigration status now?
As you are divorced have you previously been granted ROR or do you have any other EEA sponsor?

Have any removal proceedings been started or served on you or (ex) hubby?

What does the refusal letter say exactly? (don't post identifying details).
Does the letter state you have appeal rights? Thanks for your reply. I had a child for my boyfriend in January 2009, we never lived together, I met my ex husband in November 2009, we got married by December that year. I got issued 5yrs residency visa in 2010. My husband was self employed and fully paid his business taxes and NI for 5yr +. I applied for pr last year September and got refused yesterday. No interview was called by ukba. I submitted my divorced certificate, .marriage was in UK.. my passport was returned back to me with my suporting documents. Home office gave an appeal right. I live with my son. Homeoffice said they suspect marriage of convinience as my letter and my ex husbands letter was going to my ex boyfriends home as a corresponds..this is bicos we couldn't afford our own house, we lived in a shared house. Some letters was missing that's why we used the father of my sons house because I trusted him.he was at the time living with his eea wife and made an application. He got 5yrs and later got his pr, but was interviewed at homeoffice before pr was issued. His name was on my sons birth certificate and my son was in my application. I believe that's how homeoffice connected us..

On what grounds do you think you can apply for a reconsideration? what procedural or admin errors do you think HO have made?.
For example...
The burden of proof seems to be with HO on proving your mooc.
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/court-o ... me-office/

Is either party aware they are (or may be) in a mooc?

Did you submit a genuine, unaltered marriage certificate?

Were you called in for interview?

How did HO know about the previous bf at previous address?

Where does son live (who with)?
Who has responsibility for son? (sole or shared?)

[Casa]

Why have you quoted noajthan's post without a reply to the questions?

[Richard W]

@Case: Ifycamilla messed up the formatting of her reply, which is why it was hard to see her reply. The text she added in her post was:

Thanks for your reply. I had a child for my boyfriend in January 2009, we never lived together, I met my ex husband in November 2009, we got married by December that year. I got issued 5yrs residency visa in 2010. My husband was self employed and fully paid his business taxes and NI for 5yr +. I applied for pr last year September and got refused yesterday. No interview was called by ukba. I submitted my divorced certificate, .marriage was in UK.. my passport was returned back to me with my suporting documents. Home office gave an appeal right. I live with my son. Homeoffice said they suspect marriage of convinience as my letter and my ex husbands letter was going to my ex boyfriends home as a corresponds..this is bicos we couldn't afford our own house, we lived in a shared house. Some letters was missing that's why we used the father of my sons house because I trusted him.he was at the time living with his eea wife and made an application. He got 5yrs and later got his pr, but was interviewed at homeoffice before pr was issued. His name was on my sons birth certificate and my son was in my application. I believe that's how homeoffice connected us..

There should be some evidence of where the OP and her husband lived, of various degrees of credibility. The husband should have been recorded as living there on the electoral register. It should also be the address used for any driving licences. There might be evidence from the car insurance - the insurers will have wanted to know where the car was kept. There may be a tenancy agreement - though that might amount to no more than annotations in a rent book, and not be so convincing. Do medical records show the address?

[noajthan]

I had a child for my boyfriend in January 2009, we never lived together, I met my ex husband in November 2009, we got married by December that year. I got issued 5yrs residency visa in 2010. My husband was self employed and fully paid his business taxes and NI for 5yr +.

The timeline of your delivery and then marriage in late 2009 may have raised red flags.
Unfortunate especially as you may have acquired PR by late 2014 or early 2015.

Are you an EEA or non-EEA national?
Have you had any RC issued to you previously?

What is your immigration status now?
As you are now divorced from your sponsor do you have any other EEA sponsor?

Have any removal proceedings been started or served on you or (ex) hubby?

What does the refusal letter say exactly? (don't post identifying details).

On what grounds do you think you can apply for a reconsideration? what procedural or admin errors do you think HO have made?.

For example...
The burden of proof seems to be with HO on proving your mooc.
See https://www.freemovement.org.uk/court-o ... me-office/

The fact you weren't called to interview to explain your marriage may be in your favour. (Although that may simply be because you were already divorced).
When were you divorced?

Do you live separately from all exes now?
Does ex-bf have any involvement with or responsibility for son?

[Imshzd]

Does not matter if you are using your ex boy friends address or even if you are living in the same building.
You married in 2009 but you did not mentioned your divorce year?
If you write down your refusal letter here then may be some one try to pin point the HO error which leads you to success.

[Ifycamilla]

@ Noajthan. I'm a non eea. I have no eea sponsore at the moment. I live alone with my son. Ex hubby is an eea member. No removal proceeding has been made against me , just that homeoffice has asked me to appeal. Make another application or make arrangement to leave the country. I believe homeoffice made an error by thinking that my marriage was a marriage of convinienice as they never checked my home during my marriage with my ex hubby. No interview was conducted too. So I think home office made a huge mistake. I never had problem with my RC..I live alone but am trying a reconciliation with my ex boyfriend the father of my son. His also divorced from his eu wife of many years.we just want to come together because of my son

[Ifycamilla]

Does not matter if you are using your ex boy friends address or even if you are living in the same building.
You married in 2009 but you did not mentioned your divorce year?
If you write down your refusal letter here then may be some one try to pin point the HO error which leads you to success.

Thanks imshad. I got married to my ex hubby in Dec 2009 and divorced in 2015 September. RC was granted in 2010..

[Noetic]

Very unfortunate but surely you can see how this looks to a case worker? Two non EEA citizens have a child together, need a visa, just happen to both get married to EEA citizens and each get residence cards on the back of that. All the while your mail still gets sent to your Ex's address making it look to the world like you still live there.

Then you both divorce your EEA spouse and now try to get PR and try to get back together.

I appreciate why you had to get your mail elsewhere, I've lived in shared places like that and it's easy for things to go missing. But that isn't how a case worker will see it. (The fact that you were willing to live in such often cramped accommodation to be together should very much count towards proving the relationship is genuine - but the redirection means it looks like instead it was just a cover and you really lived elsewhere).

Did you write a cover letter explaining why your mail was going to your ex boyfriend? Did you supply any other evidence like photos of you together etc?

[Ifycamilla]

@ Noetic. I included a covering note in my application. But not in regards to your two questions. But yes I still have pictures of me and my ex hubby during our union.

[noajthan]

@ Noajthan. I'm a non eea. I have no eea sponsore at the moment. I live alone with my son. Ex hubby is an eea member. No removal proceeding has been made against me , just that homeoffice has asked me to appeal. Make another application or make arrangement to leave the country. I believe homeoffice made an error by thinking that my marriage was a marriage of convinienice as they never checked my home during my marriage with my ex hubby. No interview was conducted too. So I think home office made a huge mistake. I never had problem with my RC..I live alone but am trying a reconciliation with my ex boyfriend the father of my son. His also divorced from his eu wife of many years.we just want to come together because of my son

You may have acquired PR late 2014/early 2015.
Unfortunate that you didn't make an application before divorce.

You could try to make a case of inadequate burden of proof for mooc (on part of HO) but it doesn't help your case that you are now divorced.
Returning to ex-bf doesn't help your case in terms of mooc either.
And having a non-EEA partner won't help resolve your immediate immigration status.

Note you may have the option to apply for derivative rights from your son.
Is he an EEA or non-EEA national?
Is he in primary or secondary education?
Note this route cannot lead to permanent residence (and may end when son completes his education).

Worst case you can read about options for administrative removal that HO has available under Regulation 19(3):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... val-v2.pdf
- you can see the decision has to be proportionate which may or may not help you.

[Noetic]

@ Noetic. I included a covering note in my application. But not in regards to your two questions. But yes I still have pictures of me and my ex hubby during our union.

If you decide to reapply with more evidence an explanation is definitely needed for the redirection if this is visible on the evidence - no guarantee they'll believe you but without an explanation they really have no reason to take it for anything other than your real address being with your ex.

[Noetic]

Note you may have the option to apply for derivative rights from your son.
Is he an EEA or non-EEA national?

Son is with the non EEA ex from her earlier post.

[noajthan]

Note you may have the option to apply for derivative rights from your son.
Is he an EEA or non-EEA national?

Son is with the non EEA ex from her earlier post.

OP seems to be with son:

I have no eea sponsore at the moment. I live alone with my son

[Noetic]

OP seems to be with son:

Yes but she had the son with her non EEA ex bf not with her EEA ex husband so it's unlikely the son would somehow be EEA?

Sorry realised too late my post was worded confusingly.

[Ifycamilla]

@ Noajthan and Noetic. I appreciate your advice and time you devoted to reply me. Currently my ex boyfriend the father of my son has made an application for nutralisation for our son. And also homeoffice has no evidence, they just assumed that my marriage with my ex was a mooch. How can they think so after 5yrs plus of marriage with my ex hubby?circumstances was what caused us redirecting our letters to my ex boyfriends home. Am looking at appealing it as I think that homeoffice has unjustly denied me my right of acquiring a PR.

[noajthan]

Yes but she had the son with her non EEA ex bf not with her EEA ex husband so it's unlikely the son would somehow be EEA?

Sorry realised too late my post was worded confusingly.

In my experience here, always better to ask OP step-by-step than to second guess; you never can tell.
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

[Richard W]

Under the British EEA Regulations, a derivative right could only arise from the son being in education if his father had become an EEA national -

P is the child of an EEA national (“the EEA national parent”);

. While the father might have become an EEA national (e.g. if his wife were Italian), there would also be the difficulty of arguing that the father couldn't look after the child in the UK.

As far as I am aware, being in school does not help an EEA child stay in the UK as such; it is the child of a former EEA worker who has the right, whether or not the child is itself an EEA national. Now, if the OP's son were somehow an EEA national, there might be an argument on the basis of self-sufficiency if his family has enough income.