NHS / Self-sufficient Advice Please!

[sp84]

Hey folks!

I arrived in the UK a few days ago (Irish citizen with American wife using EEA Family Permit). I have spoken to a few people, that said I should go register with my local GP as soon as I can.

I planned on applying for her Residence Card under the self-sufficient category (with CSI).

Just a few quick questions if that is OK!

(1) Will the GP allow us to register her OK? I have only been here a few days and I am therefore not in employment yet (I know I have a 3 month grace period in order to make myself "qualified")

(2) Hypothetically - lets say in 2 months she falls pregnant? Does anyone know if the NHS will treat her / not treat her / charge us etc ? (if I am still not working / if I am self-sufficient) - just curious what the procedure would be in this event & know in advance if we would have to pay

(3) Will registering with a local GP - look bad on our part if applying under the self-sufficient category?

I am finding a lot of conflicting information online. The Home Office case workers report for a similar case stated:

"The Court found that even though EEA nationals and their family members may be eligible for NHS treatment as a result of NHS rules" - they still need to show proof of CSI for EU rules.

This reads to me a little like CSI is almost just for show - in order to meet the EU Directive requirements of self-sufficiency.

Then I have read posts on forums etc that says - if I can show proof of residency in the UK (then myself and my non-EU family members) are eligible for NHS care.

The information is a little conflicting and confusing, so I am not 100% sure exactly what I am eligible for and what I am not.

Any advice / opinions would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks!

[CR001]

1. Yes, you can register. Employment is not a requirement to register but you do need proof of address.

2. Yes, she will be treated and not charged.

3. No

[noajthan]

See NHS Choices:
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSse ... gland.aspx

[sp84]

See NHS Choices:
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSse ... gland.aspx

Thank you! What I did forget to say was that I am in Northern Ireland. I read a lot of information about NHS access / being a lawful resident / having to pay for Maternity treatment (in the thousands of pounds), but it was:

A) All from the NHS England information page
B) Not specific to a non-EU spouse of an EU National (that is self-sufficient)

Hence my confusion!

I have an appointment with my local GP's office today & have been given a pretty straight forward form to fill out in order to register. I did read a much older post on here and to quote another user - when they went to register with their GP, they successfully registered and were basically told "we are not immigration police".

[noajthan]

Well, government would appear to want to turn everyone in the frontline (Unis, NHS, landlords, employers etc) into immigration police, but perhaps that's one for the pub.

You have probably found this already:
http://www.hscni.net/

Suggest dig into the 'habitual residence test' (hrt) to see how that may or may not affect you.

[sp84]

Well, government would appear to want to turn everyone in the frontline (Unis, NHS, landlords, employers etc) into immigration police, but perhaps that's one for the pub.

You have probably found this already:
http://www.hscni.net/

Suggest dig into the 'habitual residence test' (hrt) to see how that may or may not affect you.

Thanks noajthan!

Yeah I had seen the Northern Ireland section of the NHS site, but nothing specific on my current situation. I had also looked into the habitual residence test. The UK Citizens Advice page actually gives a good breakdown of it - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benef ... ence-test/

To satisfy the test you must show:

(1) you have a right to reside in the UK. This means you have a right to live here, and
(2) you intend to settle in the UK, Isle of Man, Channel Islands or Ireland (the Common Travel Area) and make it your home for the time being. This is known as habitual residence.

I assume that I meet both of these requirements (that my Free Movement rights give me the right to reside in the UK)

Also, and funnily enough, when you go into the section that explains whether you pass this test or not - it does say that (in particular see point in bold):

There is no clear definition of habitual residence and it can be difficult to prove that you intend to settle in the UK. The decision-maker may look at a range of factors, including:

-the length of time you have been in the UK
-your reasons for coming to the UK
-how long you intend to stay here
-whether you're working in the UK or are likely to find work in the UK.
-The decision maker will also look at how much your life is based in the UK. Things they will consider include whether:

-you own property in the UK
-your personal possessions are mostly in the UK
-you have family and relatives here
-you've registered with a GP and dentist
-you've opened a bank account here
-you've joined any clubs or societies in the UK
-you've enrolled your children at a school.

I am originally from Northern Ireland (I have been living in the USA for 4 years and renounced my British Citizenship a few months ago, hence why I am using the EEA route) - so personally, I already have a bank account (added my wife yesterday), I am already registered with the GP's office, all my family are here, all my possessions are here etc

Sorry the post is a little long - I suppose I will find out really when I go to the GP later. Personally, I just really hope that registering / receiving treatment if needed, does not affect us in a negative way when applying for the Residence Card on a self-sufficient basis.

[noajthan]

Its a little complex as, being Irish, you have a form of settled status and a right to reside in UK anyway. Due to CTA etc.

But with your European Union citizen hat on you (both) have an initial 3 month grace period in UK then you (as a Union citizen and EEA sponsor) have to be exercising treaty rights as a qualified person.

Your qualified person/sponsor status gives your family dependents the right to reside (work, study).

Sounds like you're all set.

[sp84]

Its a little complex as, being Irish, you have a form of settled status and a right to reside in UK anyway. Due to CTA etc.

But with your European Union citizen hat on you (both) have an initial 3 month grace period in UK then you (as a Union citizen and EEA sponsor) have to be exercising treaty rights as a qualified person.

Your qualified person/sponsor status gives your family dependents the right to reside (work, study).

Sounds like you're all set.

Thanks noajthan,

That's what I have been thinking too! Some of the information semi conflicts itself. So on one hand I can be a qualified person (exercising treaty rights) by being self-sufficient (with CSI) & not being a drain on the social assistance system of the UK - but I am allowed a 3 month grace period to make myself qualified (I am sure people have gotten ill during this period before, and it relation to my opening post, I am sure they have either arrived or fallen pregnant within those 3 months haha). However, even with being self-sufficient and having CSI - I would still have to see a primary care GP through the NHS, if for example, I had the flu / needed antibiotics etc Little bit of an oxymoron there!

On the other (and to use quotes from SS route, which I know I am not using) - to show that I intend to stay in the UK, I should have a centre of life here effectively. Bank accounts, GP registration, job, job applications, rental agreements etc

Basically, even though I have been here in the UK for only 2 days, my course of action is - Add my wife to my bank account, we already have a TV License in her name, register her with the GP, apply for provisional driving license, apply for NI number and when I am submitting her Residence Card application on the basis of being self-sufficient/job seeker (I intend to apply as both) - also have CSI in place.

I have the appointment at the GP for registration in just over an hour - so I will report back when I find out. Also, please feel free to add anything regarding the other things I have mentioned in this post/if you don't think my plan sounds feasible etc

Cheers!

[noajthan]

Sounds like you're on a roll.
All of the above will generate a papertrail. No doubt optician, dentist, council tax, car insurance etc to follow.
UK EHIC may come in handy (one each).

The rest is optional and personal choice: church (etc), gym, library, dance/language class & etc.

[sp84]

Sounds like you're on a roll.
All of the above will generate a papertrail. No doubt optician, dentist, council tax, car insurance etc to follow.
UK EHIC may come in handy (one each).

The rest is optional and personal choice: church (etc), gym, library, dance/language class & etc.

Thanks noajthan!

I forgot that I also have car insurance already - even though I moved away 4 years ago - I kept a lot of things in place here in the UK - bank, car insurance, GP registration etc so now I am just working through the steps of getting those things for my wife.

So the GP appointment was very very straightforward. One of the questions on the form asked "do you or your sponsor pay National Insurance Contributions" ... I left it empty and explained to the receptionist my situation - just that I arrived after being away, so I do not have a job yet etc but I have a 3 month grace period

She said not to worry, this was just for their records - that my wife was now registered and has a first time medical appointment in 2 weeks!

[sp84]

Sounds like you're on a roll.
All of the above will generate a papertrail. No doubt optician, dentist, council tax, car insurance etc to follow.
UK EHIC may come in handy (one each).

The rest is optional and personal choice: church (etc), gym, library, dance/language class & etc.

Here is another something I have thought about noajthan - so as you know I was able to register my wife OK. With regards to being self sufficient (with CSI) and having access to the NHS:

(1) Who actually determines whether or not we would have to pay for NHS care? Is it the NHS itself or the Home Office?

(2) Hypothetically - if I am a self-sufficient qualified person and the NHS provide us with free maternity cover ... will the Home Office look into treatment we have received and use this against us (arguing that by using the NHS, we are not self-sufficient) - or will the Home Office and the NHS not be in communication with one another?