Help with Surinder Singh Route

[frustratedbrit]

Best of luck. I know what a minefield it can be with UK immigration rules. The year 2012 was an unfolding nightmare for me and my family when their visitor visas, until someone on this forum suggested the Surinder Singh route.

These assurances from the university sound really strong, so print out the emails,etc, and I'm sure that in practice you will have no problem. Emails are all logged after all.

The only thing that can possibly go wrong is if there's a Brexit followed up by a sudden rule change. I don't *think* this could happen that quickly, but I just don't know how a post-Brexit scenario would play out. I don't think anyone knows. But if it did happen, you would want to have at least submitted your application for the Family Permit before 23rd June. I don't think it would be important that you would have to have actually received the FP by then, or to have actually used it, but I'm not certain about this. After the government controversially introduced the centre-of-life criterion in January 2014, as far as I can make out it seems that those that had applied for FPs before this date did not have to satisfy the centre-of-life test when subsequently applying for a Residence Card, and similarly regarding rule changes in 2012. So it seems that UK Home Office use the date when an application is submitted as the qualification date for your rights. Of course, in the unlikely event that a Brexit did cause everything to go horribly wrong, you could always get an education visa sorted out before October. So nothing to worry about.

It sounds that a Family Permit in your passport is sufficient for your university, so there is no university requirement for you to have actually applied for the RC before you register (have they explicitly told you this already? - best to get it in writing/email). So given that you're going to move over in September, I would hold off on applying for the RC until after registration. This is because your RC application requires you to send off everything, including passport with FP, to the Home Office, and you don't get it back for 5 or 6 months. Even though they will (or should) give you a CoA within a few weeks of making the application, and will (or should) return documents like passport within a few weeks if you request, these things do not necessarily go smoothly, so best not to risk it in my opinion.

[Skylar1331]

I'm filling out the same application and I feel like it has taken me ages to get through and that so many of the questions didn't seem to be necessary. I got to the end and now I'm worried that I gave them information I shouldn't have and that I didn't select the correct visa form in the Visa4UK system from the start!

Can anyone advise on how to make sure I have the correct application form? I am trying to apply for an EEA family permit via SS and I will be joining my husband who is going ahead of me next month (I will travel with our child in September). Should it be: Reason for visit : Other, Visa Type: EEA/Swiss Family Member, Visa sub-type: Family member of an EEA National ? This is what I did but then I thought perhaps I should have chosen settlement. I would like the right to study and work and supposedly with this permit I can test the SS credentials so I have everything in order to apply again from within the UK after I register at my university in October.

Just as background, we are moving back because I am starting an all fees paid phd at Nottingham university in October. My husband is in the UK this week for a job interview and will either have a teaching contract confirmed or be doing supply teaching through an agency with a confirmed contract. He is planning to fly back to the UK at the end of August to get us a house and I will come with our child in September via the US-- even though we live in Spain-- as we are stopping off to see grandparents and collect warmer weather clothing before moving to the UK.

Should I write N/A for all of the questions that ask about my money and who supports me etc. as well as my husband's job status? I don't want to give them any information that could be used against us.

Your help would be much appreciated!

[Skylar1331]

Hi again so I have all of the SS docs I need gathered and ready but I still have a few questions now that I'm inside the actual online application form. I know this visa route won't be open very much longer given the Brexit decision but I'm assuming I can still apply for a family permit via SS until they remove it as an option from the UK immigration website.

1. Do I have to select Other and then EEA/Swiss Family member in order to get the family permit as a visa type? I thought it was settlement but then I realized that was for marriage and engagement visas. It's not transit, it's not student or work and it's not Exempt so I guess it has to be other.

2. We are planning on staying for 3 years as I'll also be studying at a university but should I put 6 months when it asks me how long I will be staying? I know I need to apply for the second permit once I am there and have registered at University.

3. They ask if I am employed. I work part-time as a freelancer so should I tell them about that or put NA? I read in another thread that it can be bad to give them extra information as they may unlawfully reject you based on that info. I also read it is best to give them info if you have it so I am torn. Any advice would be welcome.

4. What about the details concerning my monthly expenses and the budget for my trip? NA or do I just fill them out? I put no in regards to having a sponsor because my husband is not my sponsor--or is he?

5. Under 'what do you plan to do in the UK' should I put NA or full disclosure and say the following: We are going first to visit my mother-in law in Warrington and my father-in law in Bolton and then we will be moving to Nottingham so I can start a phd at the university and apply for a family permit from within the UK-- my husband is in the UK now finalizing a teaching contract for a September start. I am nervous about mentioning the Nottingham thing as maybe they will force me to apply for a student visa instead?

6. Under medical treatment I had a GP because I lived, worked and paid taxes in the UK for two years --but I never had any serious treatment just regular check ups. Do I need to fill this section out?

7. Is this what I put under Additional information? We are applying for a family permit via the Surinder Singh route. I met my husband in the UK while I was living and working in London. We lived together there for over a year and then travelled for several months before moving to our current home in Spain. We were married in Gibraltar in Oct of 2014 and my husband has been teaching full time in a private British School here in Spain for the past two years. We are both legal residents in Spain. We are moving back to the UK with our 7 month old son who is a UK and US citizen born in Spain in December 2015. I am including supporting documents that show A- our relationship, B- his worker status in Spain, C-our living together, D-his centre of life is Spain

I was just going to put sticky notes of different colors and include 4 folders with documents that fall under each category. I want to make sure I have the right application though and that I don't give them too much information and then have them reject us despite the validity of the SS credentials.

I know it was a few years ago when you filled out the application but do you remember what you did?

[Hamza2013]

Hi Skylar,

You have selected the correct category, however with regards to trip support you will need to mention who is supporting you in your case i think it will be your husband.

I see that you mentioned SS route several time in your post, if you are applying family permit in Europe for British national who has exercised treaty rights in Europe then you are covered. You do not need to mention SS any where. Your documents submission should show exercising treaty rights and move of center of life of your husband to Europe.

As per your post i reckon you have not made any mistake yet!

Hope this helps . . .

[Skylar1331]

Thank you so much for answering! So I should say that I am being sponsored by a person and then fill out my husband's details there? I feel like I have filled out his information a thousand times in one application -- once under my family details, a second under the EEA person details and now again under sponsor. It seems so redundant.

[Hamza2013]

correct Skylar,

The form is too confusing, you are not the only one who is confused

I personally think the questions are to trip, but who know,

On other note, i suggest you note to mention SS route on your letter or on your application as people have been rejected in past just by knowing the laws etc ..

[Skylar1331]

OK very good to know-- Instead of a cover letter I am submitting an index of supported documents included. I've put them in four categories based on what they show -- relationship status, worker status, co-residency and center of life. Instead of using those headers I put colored tabs on them (so many documents!) and listed each group of documents under a color . Do you think this will work or is it too organized? I feel like I am applying for something that is illegal or that they are going to try to reject me on. I have had 3 visas to the UK before, a student visa a post-study work visa and a skilled migrant worker visa so maybe they will be easier on me because i'm in the system and I used to pay taxes there? Or will that make it harder?

Also-- what should I put on the 'how long do you plan to stay in the uk?' question? I know that once I arrive I need to apply for an RC and so far I haven't mentioned in the application that I have the 4 year Phd acceptance letter and funding for October. Should I put 4 years? Indefinite? or say 6 months as that is what the permit is for?

The last odd thing is that I am saying that I will be joining my husband in the UK, which is what is happening in September. The way the application goes it makes it sound like he is there now. Fortunately, he was just there getting work secured so I am putting July 13 as the last time I saw him and since when he is living in the UK but yesterday he came back for a month. He'll go again at the end of August to get us a house and then my son and I will travel to the US and then to the UK to join him end of September . I am both saying he is in the UK and sending his passport with the application so doesn't that look strange to them?

Thank you so much for your help Hamza!

[Skylar1331]

I also got rid of the Surinder Singh mention and did this for my additional information:

I met my husband in the UK while I was living and working in London. We lived together there for over a year and then travelled for several months before moving to our current home in Spain. We were married in Gibraltar in Oct of 2014 and my husband has been teaching full time in a private international school here for the past two years. We are both legal residents in Spain. Our son was born here this past December and baptized in the local church. We both speak decent Spanish and my husbands best friend --who is also our sons godfather-- is from here and teaches at the school as well. I work part-time from home and take care of our 7 month old full time as we are raising him tri-lingual with SP, FR and EN as languages. Normally we would travel with my husband but we are going back to the US for a week to see my parents before joining Joe in Nottingham where he is setting up a house and job.

Was I right to focus on the past two years vs. spend this section talking about why we are moving back?

[Hamza2013]

Spot on Skylar,

Being organised will work in your favour for sure,

Regarding your Uk previous visa, this will neither help nor harm in any way as you are now choosing a totally different route i.e. EU law.

I suggest please put permanent in the question as that is your intention.

You can not submit your husband passport while he is in Uk, its Kinda illegal to post passport from one country to another. You can by all means submit an attested copy of your husband passport with your application.

Your paragraph regarding your relationship and stay in Spain seems fine as you have mentioned the relationship and plans

[Skylar1331]

Ok so I will put permanent then. Again-- so many thank you's for your help!

[Skylar1331]

Hamza-- I have a question! I submitted my application and now they have asked me to go to Madrid for a visa appointment. I thought I didn't have to attend an appointment with the family permit? Did I apply for the wrong visa?

[Hamza2013]

skylar,

The appointment you have at Madrid is for your bio-metrics, you will be submitting your supporting documents with your bio metrics completed.

Hope this helps, i wish you all the best in this process and need the same

[Hamza2013]

Hi Skylar,

Any updates in FP application?

[Skylar1331]

Hi Hamza,

Sorry for the long wait on the reply! They accepted my FP and now I am about to apply for SS again but this time to the home office from within the UK. It seems like organizing the docs with color coding in folders worked well! Thank you for all of your help.

Best,
Meredith

[Skylar1331]

[quote="frustratedbrit"]It sounds to me that your funding status drives everything. Get straight with the university / funding body whether your visa type affects your bursary, or is it based purely upon your citizenship. And if it is based on visa, get them to give you clear guidance on what visas make you eligible and whether you still qualify if you enter the country under an EEA Family Permit. And get this confirmed in official letters from the university / funding body.

Regarding entering the country, if your funding allows a Family Permit, then I would definitely think this is the way to do it, i.e. apply for one in Spain and use it to get into the UK. This has the advantage that it confirms your status as a Surinder Singh case early on. The first time you enter the UK under the Family Permit, you will get a stamp on the Family Permit page in your passport. I imagine that the timing of this stamp may be important for you - if it is after the referendum (23rd June) and there's a Brexit, in theory you may get problems. There really are no downsides to applying for a FP in Spain as well as UK RC once in the UK. You have to supply all the same documents for both, and a FP application is quick (yes, 3 weeks absolute max) and free. So what I would do is get a Family Permit now (it lasts for 6 months), and go for a quick and cheap visit to the UK to exercise your rights before 23rd June.

I would also really concentrate on getting confirmation from your university about whether a Family Permit or a Certificate of Application is sufficient for registration. Get some sort of official letter from someone senior at the university whose job it is to be responsible for these immigration issues, and use this if you get problems at registration. Keep on pressing the university admin for this (and for the funding letter), explaining that this is vital to your coming to the university, and that without confirmation you may decide not to come. This puts pressure on them to act, because they may lose you as a student, and thus lose lots of money.

Ideally you will not need a CoA for university registration, and the FP page in your passport is sufficient. This is because the process of application for an RC is very slow - it takes 5 to 6 months. As part of the application, you must give the UK Home Office original documents, including your passport and evidence of qualification for EEA family member status. Yes, you should get a CoA within a few weeks, and then a Biometrics Appointment Letter, but you are at the mercy of the application processing. I am currently applying for such residency cards under Surinder Singh for my wife and stepson, and mysteriously still have no CoAs after 4 months (although we did get Biometrics Appointment Letters within about 6 weeks).

With regards to entering the UK with your husband, under FP rules you can either enter the UK together or to join him if he is already in the UK. For absolute peace of mind, the lowest risk option is to travel together, but I'm sure you'd be fine on your own.

As far as the evidence required for FP/RC is concerned, you have got the right idea about supporting documents. However, there is an element of subjectivity for the Entry Clearance Office in interpreting the "centre of life" test, so to be absolutely certain I would also throw in the following:
- his payslips for his teaching job (6 months payslips would be ideal)
- 6 months of bank statements, showing salary coming in and day-to-day living expenses going out.

And another bit of advice - make sure you don't pay any fees when applying for the FP in Spain. I don't know the system there, but most UK visa processing is outsourced nowadays and as part of the online application process you can be directed to misleading webpages that suggest that you need to pay a fee to book an appointment or something or other. Under EU rules, your application to enter the country must be offered free.[/quote]

Thank you so much for your advice on applying for the FP from Spain- I hope you have all of your RCs by now! I'm not in the UK with my husband and son and about to apply for RC. My FP was enough for us to rent a house and for me to start university but as it will expire in March I have to get the Home Office step sorted now. Luckily it is just for me as my son is a UK citizen.

I wanted to ask you if the docs you used for SS were any different applying from within the UK. The reason I ask is the bank statements and pay slip documents are all from 6 months before we applied for the FP from Spain in August so they will be outdated now. Do you think it is still okay to submit them? We are proving we were living in Spain then so I think it should be acceptable. Did you do anything different applying for the RC than the FP?

Thank you again for all of your advice!

[zahfi2017]

hi all im new to this just wanted some advice
i am a pakistani national and my wife is british she has been exercising her treaty rights in spain living with me since june 2016 she has a spanish residence card and is working here too.

we applyed for a family permit on 22nd febuary to travel to the uk for 2 weeks. we put the intended travel date as 8th march
we gave all the right paperwork and supporting documents however when i contact ukvi they are telling me that the entry clearence officers have still not looked at the application am just wondering will the date affect my application as today is the 8th its been 15 days and they still havent touched the application

any information and advise is welcome please
thank you

[Olsi]

Hello I think if you have a Spanish resident card under article 10, better option is to show up with your wife in airport because is
Writed in government website that family members of the EU citizens that have a residence card under article 10 can travel in UK without family permit application. It's better to take all your documents that you have in Spain, work contract, tenency agreement, etc. This is my personal opinion and is the same think that me and my wife are planing to do in summer

[Britpeeps]

hi all im new to this just wanted some advice
i am a pakistani national and my wife is british she has been exercising her treaty rights in spain living with me since june 2016 she has a spanish residence card and is working here too.

we applyed for a family permit on 22nd febuary to travel to the uk for 2 weeks. we put the intended travel date as 8th march
we gave all the right paperwork and supporting documents however when i contact ukvi they are telling me that the entry clearence officers have still not looked at the application am just wondering will the date affect my application as today is the 8th its been 15 days and they still havent touched the application

any information and advise is welcome please
thank you

How did you contact UKVI to have this conversation? I'd like to call and check on our application too but the phone number I had just led to someone who said they can't look up individual applications to check statuses. I'd appreciate it if you send me the number you used. Thanks.