"reversed" Surinder Singh + 8000 eu treaty visa backlog

[jul1]

Im considering a kind of a "reversed" Surinder Singh way.

Im a EU citizen in the Schengen-zone, now working in Ireland for years now, recently married to non-eu spouse in her country who had never lived in EU before , she was here on visit visa few times before, and me as well to visit her. We applied for eu treaty rights visa to Ireland, waiting for months now, and who knows how long more given that 8000 backlog and only 5 visa decisions/week will take them 30 years to process all...
SOLVIT told me that based on Metock, Surinder Singh, and o and b v the netherlands cases if i move home i can bring her in based on 2004/38, an also they confirmed that i could apply for the residence card for her which will say "family member of EU citizen" so it wont be based on the national rule, so this card should be accepted in all EU countries (even non SChengen) and therefore we could come back with that card to Ireland. Getting the Schengen-visa based on marriage seems to be easy to get.

8000 eu treaty right visa backlog accepted by INIS
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2016-05-17a.396


What i found on http://europa.eu
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

Visa exemptions
Your non-EU spouse , (grand)children or (grand)parents do not need to get a visa from the country they are travelling to if:
....
They have an EU family member's residence card issued under EU rules by any EU country (except the country you are a national of), and they are travelling together with you or travelling to join you in another EU country. The residence card should clearly state that the holder is a family member of an EU national.
------------------
SOVLIT said if the residence card was issued based on 2004/38 even in my own country that card is still good for all countries, so the information is not complete on europe.eu

I feel SOLVIT is mostly theoretical, they say what supposed to be the law, but im not sure that it would work in reality.

The question is can this idea be accomplished, so first exercising treaty right in Ireland, during that years i met my non-eea wife but she was not a resident in EU, only visit visa, can i go home to my county claiming Surinder Singh and ask for the "family member of EU citizen" card and than come back with that to Ireland?

[noajthan]

No, not if wife did not reside with you in Eire.

Where is wife now?

How long has wife spent in Eire at one time?
What proof of your treaty rights and joint residence do you have?

If all you want to do is enter Eire with wife why not just get on a ferry and get stamped in at border?

[jul1]

She only spent 3 months at a time as she was on visit visa, she is in her non-eea country waiting for irish visa, but that is very frustrating months now...
For eu treaty rights i sent in all documents, working here for 5 years full time, PRTB letter of renting the same place for 3 years now, 3 years of P60, 6 months payslip, bank account, letter from employer, so all that prooves that im here years now. Also im eligible for permanent resident card as EU citizen living here more than 5 years now but i did not apply for this card yet, i dunno if makes any difference in our case.
We did not reside yet together but want to start our life here.

My embassy in her country said they can easily give Schengen visa to her once our marriage is registered in my county as well, that is in the process now.

So once she has the Schengen visa we should go to France and buy a one-way ticket on the ferry and that is it? Is it that easy really? And of course prepare all the marriage and birth certs.
So make it clear, without any residence card, only with Schengen visa and marriage cert we can enter Ireland without any visa?

[noajthan]

Depends on home country implementation of SS case law then especially if wife is not residing in Eire now.

Case law on any rights accruing from past residence in a memberstate is complex and wife was not really residing just visiting.

Naturally you can always present yourselves at the border, show your marriage certificate and passports to prove identity and relationship and gain entry.

Its simpler going by ferry than by plane obviously.

That's the beauty and elegance of free movement.

[roxyali3005]

This made no sense to me whatsoever. How can i get a visa for my husband to come to France for a holiday if im residing in Ireland? Can he then come to ireland with me from France on ferry ? HELP

[noajthan]

This made no sense to me whatsoever. How can i get a visa for my husband to come to France for a holiday if im residing in Ireland? Can he then come to ireland with me from France on ferry ? HELP

You need to read up on free movement rights.
https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/

See also:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc ... VhqTzeSO_w

Hubby gets Schengen visa for France from home country.

You go to France (no visa as you're a Union citizen).

Hop on ferry.
If/when questioned invoke free movement rights.

Simples.

[jul1]

in my case, im eu citizen from one of the Schengen countries, and my embassy told me they can give the visa for my wife for free to visit me in MY OWN Schengen country, likely a 6 or 12 months multy-entry visa, proven with the flight ticket that she will go to my country, but than with that visa she can go to France/Belgium to the ferry.
Now im working in Ireland and we applied a visa here, but Ireland is not Schengen country so at the same time you can/have to apply for Schengen visa if you want to go there.

I was reading about entering non-Schengen country without visa but i was not sure at all they will leave us enter, and by airplane i think it is not possible at all as they wont let her board without visa.

https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/

If it was that easy to enter Ireland on the ferry why would anyone wait for the visa with that hige backlog? Or they cannot get the SChngen visa? Im still shocked that we could come here with marriage cert? Can someone else confirm that too?

What if she will be declined when we want to enter the ferry and mark her passport number in the visa system, while our irish visa is still pending?

[noajthan]

I have no idea why people don't know and invoke their rights.

Read the EU guide - after all your VAT helped pay for it.

And you don't need to believe me or any other anonymous poster on a public forum, go to the source: read the Directive.

Better still print it out and take it with you on the ferry to show to the Garda and IOs.

If you prove your identity and relationship you have the full weight and power of EU law behind you.

Read the examples to be found in forum and on that Wordpress blog.

You have nothing to lose but your chains (of seperation).

[jul1]

well i knew about this option but i read it as well that many were still declined at entry, and there is only a few success stories on the internet, especially from years ago.

As the directive says the eu treaty rights visa should be issued in 4 weeks, that is the theory, in reality we are waiting for more then 4 months now and my wifes country is not even on the Operation Vantage list, so why is the huge delay for us, and for the other 8000?

Im really happy that you can confirm that getting here on the ferry is that easy, though i would be much happier if someone would post here who actually succeed in there

[noajthan]

Search forum.

And see also:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/europe ... 95372.html
- option 2

[jul1]

ok, thx

and do you think it is better to argue with immigration based on that im already working in Ireland for years now, and prepare all docs which proves that or we should buy a return ticket on the ferry and say we just want to visit friends/family there

[noajthan]

ok, thx

and do you think it is better to argue with immigration based on that im already working in Ireland for years now, and prepare all docs which proves that or we should buy a return ticket on the ferry and say we just want to visit friends/family there

The ticket should not matter, buy whatever is easiest.
If questioned and initially refused at the border then insist on your rights under EU law (as per linked article and forum post). Don't pretend you're a tourist.

[mgb]

@jul1

Take a printout of this high court decision with you

http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/09859e7a ... b8005ae84f

and point to Nr. 16
(either residence card or marriage certificate).

[jul1]

...i was reading about travelling without visa only based on 2004/38 but it is not as reassuring as i thought it would be.

I could apply for Irish citizenship here (i know that takes time too), in this case if i go back to my country as dual citizen could i apply for 2004/38 residence card for my wife?

[jul1]

actually i want to try the ferry, my biggest concern is if we are declined they might will put a warning in the system about her visa, which might effect the ongoing visa or later travel, does anyone information about this?
I still have a bit trust in our ongoing visa that it will be processed, they say now there will be a ruling about the delays in end of August, but honestly i see they are just keep declining them...

[mgb]

The ferry company has nothing to do with any visa system database. The problem is to get on the ferry without a visa.
In Ireland the entry cannot be denied if you read the link from above.

[jul1]

is it possible to get to Ireland on a private boat?

[noajthan]

actually i want to try the ferry, my biggest concern is if we are declined they might will put a warning in the system about her visa, which might effect the ongoing visa or later travel, does anyone information about this?
I still have a bit trust in our ongoing visa that it will be processed, they say now there will be a ruling about the delays in end of August, but honestly i see they are just keep declining them...

Which bit of "you are covered by EU law" do you misunderstand?

[jul1]

i understand every part of it, just cant believe it sorry, just like when we applied for eu treaty rights visa believing it will be 1-2 months to issue it turning out to be nightmare to wait that long... i dont want to deepen that nightmare if there will be consequences. In case they declined us on the ferry and there will be no flag in the system that we tried to cross borders without visa we cannot loose too much to try it, other than the price of the ticket, would be great to hear RECENT success with that (what i found online are years old, like 2010, 2012, since there was migrant crisis, terrorists...)

[noajthan]

i understand every part of it, just cant believe it sorry, just like when we applied for eu treaty rights visa believing it will be 1-2 months to issue it turning out to be nightmare to wait that long... i dont want to deepen that nightmare if there will be consequences. In case they declined us on the ferry and there will be no flag in the system that we tried to cross borders without visa we cannot loose too much to try it, other than the price of the ticket, would be great to hear RECENT success with that (what i found online are years old, like 2010, 2012, since there was migrant crisis, terrorists...)

The delay is due to authorities not complying with requirements of EU law.

You are not trying to sneak or breach any laws so why would you be flagged under domestic law if attempting to invoke rights due under EU law?

Any denial will be due to authorities not complying with requirements of EU law.
They have done this in the past and a complainant, in at least one case, was awarded hefty compensation.
Hopefully authorities have learned their lesson.