please advise me regarding my pr appeal through EEA4 route

[hunk_cool]

Married to eea wife=2010
divorce 2014
marriage lasted=4 years and 6 months
Applied for PR on 2015
Refused:my ex wife paysplips was not enough..they need a bank statements too.Then they also mentioned i was also not qualified for ROR with the same reason that payslips was not only enough for them that i was genuninely working.
Appealed:2016
I tried to contact court as it has been more than 6 months i have filed my appeal and heard nothing ..
In the mean time i asked HMRC for my work history for one year so this will show that i was worker after divorce.I have also got my wife work history from HRMC for last five years.
So i am thinking to withdraw my appeal and reapply for PR.
my question is
if incase home office refuses me again ..will i have right to appeal?
secondly home office had given me COA with right to work which has now expired.can i still work while appeal is going on without requesing further COA letter from home office.

Lastly home office had asked for bank statements to check if payslips were genunine or not for my ex wife.Now i have hmrc work history for my ex wife ...will that be enough for home office?
many thanks in advance

[noajthan]

If you withdraw the appeal you have no way to prove on what basis you have to remain in UK.

You will only have a right to remain in your own right if you have acquired ROR and can now exercise treaty rights eg by working.
Both those requirements seem to be unproven.
You will need a very understanding employer to accept you still have a right to work at the moment.

[hunk_cool]

If you withdraw the appeal you have no way to prove on what basis you have to remain in UK.

You will only have a right to remain in your own right if you have acquired ROR and can now exercise treaty rights eg by working.
Both those requirements seem to be unproven.
You will need a very understanding employer to accept you still have a right to work at the moment.

Hi thanks for helping me out here..I am working for myself in my own company...resident card was given to me for 5 years previously ..but after divorce i was refused for my or application.now while my appeal is going on I believe I have same right as I had before.My confusion is do I need to ask for coa letter with home office or can I continue my emlpoyment without requesting coa
Many thanks

[noajthan]

Hi thanks for helping me out here..I am working for myself in my own company...resident card was given to me for 5 years previously ..but after divorce i was refused for my or application.now while my appeal is going on I believe I have same right as I had before.My confusion is do I need to ask for coa letter with home office or can I continue my emlpoyment without requesting coa
Many thanks

You are not operating under UK Immigration Regulations.

You do not have a 'visa'.
As you don't have 'visa' conditions/rights they don't simply continue on during an appeal.

Even if you previously had a RC its only really valid on the day of issue as lots of things could change after that.

For example, you could get divorced (which, in fact you have).
Or your sponsor could have stopped exercising treaty rights;
Or sponsor might have failed to register for WRS or hold CSI (if applicable);
Or you or sponsor might have left UK
etc etc

So having a RC from before doesn't really prove anything in the here and now.

If you are self-employed you don't actually need a COA as you don't have an employer.
A COA or RC or PR card doesn't grant any of these rights anyway, they are simply confirmatory documents.

You either have treaty rights under EU law or you don't.
At the moment unfortunately you can't prove to anyone (including an employer, landlord, DVLA etc) that you have these rights based on divorce from a Union citizen.

If you withdraw the appeal, and are able to stay in country long enough to file an application for PR, its unlikely you will be given a COA confirming a right to work.

The real challenge you face is to show you now have any basis to remain in country (as both your ROR and current PR applications have failed so far).
Good luck.

[hunk_cool]

Hi thanks for helping me out here..I am working for myself in my own company...resident card was given to me for 5 years previously ..but after divorce i was refused for my or application.now while my appeal is going on I believe I have same right as I had before.My confusion is do I need to ask for coa letter with home office or can I continue my emlpoyment without requesting coa
Many thanks

You are not operating under UK Immigration Regulations.

You do not have a 'visa'.
As you don't have 'visa' conditions/rights they don't simply continue on during an appeal.

Even if you previously had a RC its only really valid on the day of issue as lots of things could change after that.

For example, you could get divorced (which, in fact you have).
Or your sponsor could have stopped exercising treaty rights;
Or sponsor might have failed to register for WRS or hold CSI (if applicable);
Or you or sponsor might have left UK
etc etc

So having a RC from before doesn't really prove anything in the here and now.

If you are self-employed you don't actually need a COA as you don't have an employer.
A COA or RC or PR card doesn't grant any of these rights anyway, they are simply confirmatory documents.

You either have treaty rights under EU law or you don't.
At the moment unfortunately you can't prove to anyone (including an employer, landlord, DVLA etc) that you have these rights based on divorce from a Union citizen.

If you withdraw the appeal, and are able to stay in country long enough to file an application for PR, its unlikely you will be given a COA confirming a right to work.

The real challenge you face is to show you now have any basis to remain in country (as both your ROR and current PR applications have failed so far).
Good luck.

Hi thanks for making me understand..can you let me know which way shall I proceed...withdraw appeal or continue to wait for hearing date..its been six months I have been waiting for hearing date..i know court process could be lengthy but do you roughly know time period how long does it take to get hearing date these days.
Thanks

[noajthan]

Hi thanks for making me understand..can you let me know which way shall I proceed...withdraw appeal or continue to wait for hearing date..its been six months I have been waiting for hearing date..i know court process could be lengthy but do you roughly know time period how long does it take to get hearing date these days.
Thanks

I have heard an appeal can take up to a year or more. So it appears you are on track.
Suggest sit tight.
And continue to gather and generate whatever papertrail that you can.

If you withdraw the appeal you may, worst case, find yourself subject to a removal procedure or, at least, be invited to leave UK.

What I don't know is if you can submit a fresh application for DCPR whilst an appeal is in the system.

[hunk_cool]

Hi thank you so much...I have gathered all paperwork ..but as you have mentioned in the last sentence if I can apply without withdrawing that would be nice..I need to find this out and finish this process ,it's bee long time waiting.once again thanks for communicating.

[Carling40]

Hi hunk_cool
I wouldn't recommend you withdraw your appeal as its your legal right to challenge the decision and it offers you protection from any administrative issues. Whilst your appeal is ongoing you can request a COA if you'd like one it gives you something in hand, I believe there's an email address you can send a request to. I don't see any harm in submitting another application as they'd either
1. Ask you to withdraw your appeal
2. Process the application based on the additional information you have and issue the confirmation you seek
3. Refuse again with entirely different reasons that might be difficult to defend in appeal.
In my opinion I'd sit tight as Noajthan as said and prepare yourself for the appeal to make your case to win. Hopefully not too long to go.

[hunk_cool]

Hi hunk_cool
I wouldn't recommend you withdraw your appeal as its your legal right to challenge the decision and it offers you protection from any administrative issues. Whilst your appeal is ongoing you can request a COA if you'd like one it gives you something in hand, I believe there's an email address you can send a request to. I don't see any harm in submitting another application as they'd either
1. Ask you to withdraw your appeal
2. Process the application based on the additional information you have and issue the confirmation you seek
3. Refuse again with entirely different reasons that might be difficult to defend in appeal.
In my opinion I'd sit tight as Noajthan as said and prepare yourself for the appeal to make your case to win. Hopefully not too long to go.

I have never used this forum before but I gathered little energy to register and post my query.with all your replies and help,it has really supported me .thank you so much...I think I am gonna wait for my hearing date...I see this only as a safest option..I will surely try my best up to the end..thank you so much

[hunk_cool]

hi guys ..i hope you doing well..
home office had rejected me before with the reasons:
payslips itself was not enough .They needed a bank statement too for me and my wife too.I also did not have all payslips for 5 years for my ex wife even she was working .Many payslips were missing.BUt i had submitted p60 for those time with missing payslips.
I was told i needed my ex wife 3 years employement ,1 year together proof in one of those 3 years,my ex wife working at the time of divorce and me working after divorce.
I applied for PR and if i am not eligible then i thought they will provide me ROR.
They rejected me that i needed 5 yrs payslips and bank statement for my ex wife for PR.Then they also mentioned my only payslips was not enough
so now i have gathered
my ex wife payslips for 3 years as i do not have other payslips even she was working for 5 years.2 p60's and 5 years employment history from hm revenue for my ex wife.But i still do not have bank statement.
For myself i have payslips after divorce,p60 for the same time period and hm revenue work history for same time period.I do not have bank statements either

Please le me know does it look strong and will they accept this without bank statements

also after two weeks time of my pr application rejection, home office had sent another letter saying my residence card has been cancelled too.But this time they said they had accepted my ex wife's employement but had not accepted mine after divorce.for this reason they have cancelled residence card.BUt i had appealed already in court before i received this letter .Do you guys think this letter is any useful.
I am thinking if this is sufficient document the i would like to reapply while appeal is pending.

many thanks in advance

[Lyuda_16]

hi guys ..i hope you doing well..
home office had rejected me before with the reasons:
payslips itself was not enough .They needed a bank statement too for me and my wife too.I also did not have all payslips for 5 years for my ex wife even she was working .Many payslips were missing.BUt i had submitted p60 for those time with missing payslips.
I was told i needed my ex wife 3 years employement ,1 year together proof in one of those 3 years,my ex wife working at the time of divorce and me working after divorce.
I applied for PR and if i am not eligible then i thought they will provide me ROR.
They rejected me that i needed 5 yrs payslips and bank statement for my ex wife for PR.Then they also mentioned my only payslips was not enough
so now i have gathered
my ex wife payslips for 3 years as i do not have other payslips even she was working for 5 years.2 p60's and 5 years employment history from hm revenue for my ex wife.But i still do not have bank statement.
For myself i have payslips after divorce,p60 for the same time period and hm revenue work history for same time period.I do not have bank statements either


Have applied ROR after you got divorced?
Can you ask you ex partner request bank statement for last 5 years as well as you?

Please le me know does it look strong and will they accept this without bank statements

also after two weeks time of my pr application rejection, home office had sent another letter saying my residence card has been cancelled too.But this time they said they had accepted my ex wife's employement but had not accepted mine after divorce.for this reason they have cancelled residence card.BUt i had appealed already in court before i received this letter .Do you guys think this letter is any useful.
I am thinking if this is sufficient document the i would like to reapply while appeal is pending.

many thanks in advance

[Carling40]

hi guys ..i hope you doing well..
home office had rejected me before with the reasons:
payslips itself was not enough .They needed a bank statement too for me and my wife too.I also did not have all payslips for 5 years for my ex wife even she was working .Many payslips were missing.BUt i had submitted p60 for those time with missing payslips.
I was told i needed my ex wife 3 years employement ,1 year together proof in one of those 3 years,my ex wife working at the time of divorce and me working after divorce.
I applied for PR and if i am not eligible then i thought they will provide me ROR.
They rejected me that i needed 5 yrs payslips and bank statement for my ex wife for PR.Then they also mentioned my only payslips was not enough
so now i have gathered
my ex wife payslips for 3 years as i do not have other payslips even she was working for 5 years.2 p60's and 5 years employment history from hm revenue for my ex wife.But i still do not have bank statement.
For myself i have payslips after divorce,p60 for the same time period and hm revenue work history for same time period.I do not have bank statements either

Please let me know does it look strong and will they accept this without bank statements

also after two weeks time of my pr application rejection, home office had sent another letter saying my residence card has been cancelled too.But this time they said they had accepted my ex wife's employement but had not accepted mine after divorce.for this reason they have cancelled residence card.BUt i had appealed already in court before i received this letter .Do you guys think this letter is any useful.
I am thinking if this is sufficient document the i would like to reapply while appeal is pending.

many thanks in advance

Hi, in my opinion sounds like you've got enough, i don't think the case worker should insist on bank statements, on the balance of probabilities and based on the newly gathered documents, it'll be pedantic and petty to refuse again and demand bank statements.
you can roll the dice and re-apply with the new information if you wish and also add copies of the new information/additional to your appeal case if you've lodged one and see what happens.
if it helps i didn't provide bank statements for myself nor my ex and i'm sure there are lots of people who didn't also and got their DCPR. good luck

[hunk_cool]

hi guys ..i hope you doing well..
home office had rejected me before with the reasons:
payslips itself was not enough .They needed a bank statement too for me and my wife too.I also did not have all payslips for 5 years for my ex wife even she was working .Many payslips were missing.BUt i had submitted p60 for those time with missing payslips.
I was told i needed my ex wife 3 years employement ,1 year together proof in one of those 3 years,my ex wife working at the time of divorce and me working after divorce.
I applied for PR and if i am not eligible then i thought they will provide me ROR.
They rejected me that i needed 5 yrs payslips and bank statement for my ex wife for PR.Then they also mentioned my only payslips was not enough
so now i have gathered
my ex wife payslips for 3 years as i do not have other payslips even she was working for 5 years.2 p60's and 5 years employment history from hm revenue for my ex wife.But i still do not have bank statement.
For myself i have payslips after divorce,p60 for the same time period and hm revenue work history for same time period.I do not have bank statements either


Have applied ROR after you got divorced?
Can you ask you ex partner request bank statement for last 5 years as well as you?

Please le me know does it look strong and will they accept this without bank statements

also after two weeks time of my pr application rejection, home office had sent another letter saying my residence card has been cancelled too.But this time they said they had accepted my ex wife's employement but had not accepted mine after divorce.for this reason they have cancelled residence card.BUt i had appealed already in court before i received this letter .Do you guys think this letter is any useful.
I am thinking if this is sufficient document the i would like to reapply while appeal is pending.

many thanks in advance

hi thanks for your reply..no i did not apply for ROR.I applied for PR and i thought at least they will give me ROR..My ex wife is not willing to provide bank statement .i have tried many times.Isn't HMRC letter should be enough that she was working for last 5 years.AS there is clearly written time period,employer name and tax paid amount too.bit confused

[hunk_cool]

hi guys ..i hope you doing well..
home office had rejected me before with the reasons:
payslips itself was not enough .They needed a bank statement too for me and my wife too.I also did not have all payslips for 5 years for my ex wife even she was working .Many payslips were missing.BUt i had submitted p60 for those time with missing payslips.
I was told i needed my ex wife 3 years employement ,1 year together proof in one of those 3 years,my ex wife working at the time of divorce and me working after divorce.
I applied for PR and if i am not eligible then i thought they will provide me ROR.
They rejected me that i needed 5 yrs payslips and bank statement for my ex wife for PR.Then they also mentioned my only payslips was not enough
so now i have gathered
my ex wife payslips for 3 years as i do not have other payslips even she was working for 5 years.2 p60's and 5 years employment history from hm revenue for my ex wife.But i still do not have bank statement.
For myself i have payslips after divorce,p60 for the same time period and hm revenue work history for same time period.I do not have bank statements either

Please let me know does it look strong and will they accept this without bank statements

also after two weeks time of my pr application rejection, home office had sent another letter saying my residence card has been cancelled too.But this time they said they had accepted my ex wife's employement but had not accepted mine after divorce.for this reason they have cancelled residence card.BUt i had appealed already in court before i received this letter .Do you guys think this letter is any useful.
I am thinking if this is sufficient document the i would like to reapply while appeal is pending.

many thanks in advance

Hi, in my opinion sounds like you've got enough, i don't think the case worker should insist on bank statements, on the balance of probabilities and based on the newly gathered documents, it'll be pedantic and petty to refuse again and demand bank statements.
you can roll the dice and re-apply with the new information if you wish and also add copies of the new information/additional to your appeal case if you've lodged one and see what happens.
if it helps i didn't provide bank statements for myself nor my ex and i'm sure there are lots of people who didn't also and got their DCPR. good luck

hI thanks for your reply..I believe HMRC document is most important eveidence to prove that my wife working status and mine aswell.I hope they do not need bank statements.Is it better to write a cover letter and mention clearly what documents i have submitted to them with this application and also mention that p60's cover for the year that do not have payslips and other details.Just to make them understand.
regards

[hunk_cool]

Hi guys ..I am thinking to get a solicitor for my eea application case..could you please let me know if someone has good experience...
Many thanks

[Casa]

The Board's Terms & Conditions prohibit the posting of recommendations for professional services.

[Obie]

It is strange why they insist on Bank Statement when you are divorced.

They have the ability to check it, surprised why they did not.

Did you explain that your spouse is not prepared to provide you with payslips.

A worker in EU law is not dependent on whether or not there is a bank account where pay is made.

A person could have cash in hand, and still qualify as a worker in law.

[hunk_cool]

It is strange why they insist on Bank Statement when you are divorced.

They have the ability to check it, surprised why they did not.

Did you explain that your spouse is not prepared to provide you with payslips.

A worker in EU law is not dependent on whether or not there is a bank account where pay is made.

A person could have cash in hand, and still qualify as a worker in law.

Hi Obie many thanks for your reply...in all the payslips she has bacs payment method..
I will make it clear little bit here
My ex wife history:3 years worked for a food company.
Then after we started working together for my limited company.we worked together for 1 year and 3 months then we started divorce as things did not go well.i convinced her to work upto the end of divorce which she did.actually we worked together even 3 months after divorce..now she is not here and must be somewhere with family .i am not in touch as it has been a while now.i have also submitted my own payslips as an employee from my own company .i have not mentioned it as my company in an application as i wanted to make it simpler.
My tax ,nic contribution has been upto date to hmrc.
I applied for pr as it has already been 5 years of marriage.despite My ex wife was working for 5 years ..I was able to gather 3.5 year payslips with gaps.so to fill up the gaps I had p60 for those years.for my side I had only supplied payslips after divorce.
I got rejected saying I needed to provide 5 years of payslip for my ex wife and needed bank statements too and in my part they mentioned that payslip on its own is not enough so I have failed to meet the requirements.Home office gave me option to either reapply or appeal or leave the country.
I had no choice so I appealed at that time.Then after 2 weeks I got another letter from Ukba with topic revocation of residence card .On that letter they mentioned they have accepted my ex wife meets the requirement but I do not .so I have failed to retain right of residence.again they gave me same choice either reapply or appeal or leave the country.
As I had appealed I did not give much attention.But now it has been more than six months for my appeal and I have heard nothing so I am trying to see my possibilities for reapplying.
For now..I have gathered my payslips,p60 and hmrc work history letter.Then my ex wife payslips,3 p60's and 5 years work history from hm revenue.
Now shall I reapply for PR on the basis of first rejection or shall I reapply for ROR on the basis of second letter which I received 2 weeks after rejection.
Or because I have appealed I cannot even reapply without withdrawing which seems to be risky?
Can you please also let me know if this hmrc letter is enough for this time which is only the main proof in my case.ALSO your any suggestions and opinion would be great towards any further document and how to proceed from here.
Many thanks in advance