Child Citizenship Application - REFUSED

[Petaltop]

Why didn't you, the British citizen, just sponsor your step-daughter under UK immigration rules to get her to the UK from Thailand?

[Petaltop]

Glad to hear all that wild talk of overstay has been put to bed.

No idea how much CSI would cost for a child but getting some in place would surely make daughter's position as a qualified person unassailable.
Once she has her id she could then shoot for RC.

Can a child ever be a qualified person? What did the Chen ruling state?

[Petaltop]

Glad to hear all that wild talk of overstay has been put to bed.

No idea how much CSI would cost for a child but getting some in place would surely make daughter's position as a qualified person unassailable.
Once she has her id she could then shoot for RC.

Your analysis appears correct, she may not now have time to acquire PR before UK cuts itself adrift.

So possession of some EU documentation may prove its worth if any transitional arrangements are going to be put in place.

This is old, November 2013, and the rules may have changed (?) but it says

The ECJ ruled in the case of Chen that an EEA national child who held sickness insurance would have a right to reside in the UK (as a self-sufficient person) with his primary carer, provided that the primary carer had sufficient resources to ensure that the child did not become a burden on public funds.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ases-eun05

[noajthan]

Glad to hear all that wild talk of overstay has been put to bed.

No idea how much CSI would cost for a child but getting some in place would surely make daughter's position as a qualified person unassailable.
Once she has her id she could then shoot for RC.

Can a child ever be a qualified person? What did the Chen ruling state?

Interestingly, there is no age limit specified for being a qualified person.
Ofcourse there may be some practical difficulties with some categories of qualified person. But selfsufficient should be feasible.

[ToonBarmy]

Hi

We would like to gain the CSI just as a safeguard, as you say it certainly cannot do any harm and may yet prove essential despite what we have previously been told, i assume this cannot be back dated and so the 3 years already here, in essence would be "lost" and day 1 of the qualifying period is from when the EU national has in place the CSI ?. My stepdaughter is registered with the Swiss embassy here in London and as stated she should soon be in possession of a Swiss National Identity card, we may also have a way forward in terms of obtaining a child arrangement order from here in the U.K (custody).

In terms of the CSI, i have looked into website that offer quotes to EEA nationals seeking CSI however they all only quote for adults aged 18+, does anyone know of other cases where this has been sought / gained for minors ?, any idea of the likely range of costs for CSI for a minor?

Many thanks

[noajthan]

Hi

We would like to gain the CSI just as a safeguard, as you say it certainly cannot do any harm and may yet prove essential despite what we have previously been told, i assume this cannot be back dated and so the 3 years already here, in essence would be "lost" and day 1 of the qualifying period is from when the EU national has in place the CSI ?. My stepdaughter is registered with the Swiss embassy here in London and as stated she should soon be in possession of a Swiss National Identity card, we may also have a way forward in terms of obtaining a child arrangement order from here in the U.K (custody).

In terms of the CSI, i have looked into website that offer quotes to EEA nationals seeking CSI however they all only quote for adults aged 18+, does anyone know of other cases where this has been sought / gained for minors ?, any idea of the likely range of costs for CSI for a minor?

Many thanks

CSI is a form of insurance so no it can't be backdated. (It was first suggested back in April).

In the meantime, the preceding 3 years are unlikely to count towards acquisition of PR.
Daughter will probably now have to rely on any transitional arrangements for Union citizens that may be put in place (yet TBC); ie due to Brexit.
And in those circumstances as much EU-related documentation as she can get will surely help; (including id, RC).

I've not bought CSI for a child and don't know the costs. You may have to get an adult policy and include her as a minor.

[Richard W]

Why didn't you, the British citizen, just sponsor your step-daughter under UK immigration rules to get her to the UK from Thailand?

According to an earlier post (perhaps not here), the OP had been led to believe that EU citizens could freely live in the UK. What's more, one can probably still find people who say that Immigration Rule 5 prohibits her from lawfully receiving a valid settlement visa.

Save where expressly indicated, these Rules do not apply to those persons who are entitled to enter or remain in the United Kingdom by virtue of the provisions of the 2006 EEA Regulations. But any person who is not entitled to rely on the provisions of those Regulations is covered by these Rules.

[olgachilds]

Hi All
I am a newbie on here and would just like to start by thanking anyone who reads and / or replies to my post. Last week we got the bad news that my Stepdaughters British Citizenship application has been refused. She is a 7 year old child, has duel Swiss / Thai nationality, she acquired her Swiss passport via her Swiss biological father with whom she has no contact, her Thai mum (my wife) has gone through the Settlement Visa, ILR and British Citizenship steps already and thus is now British.

We applied under section 3(1) at the Home Secretary's discretion but this was refused as they do not classify her as being "settled" here under the immigration laws. They (HO) state that as the minor of an EEA national she cannot be settled here until either she has ILR or has acquired Permanent Residence under European law. She has been living here very happily and attending school for the past 2+ years now and is very much "British" with a stronger local accent even than myself.

We brought her here to the U.K on Dec 29th 2013 and she entered the U.K on her Swiss passport gained as stated via her biological Fathers Country of origin, this passport was applied for and granted via the Swiss Embassy, Bangkok, Thailand.

This was just prior to my wife applying for and being successful in acquiring ILR which in turn became Citizenship last October 2015 (so Mum is now a British Citizen and Passport holder). The whereabouts of "Dad" are unknown and he plays no part in his daughters life, this was explained within the application and this did not form any part of the refusal. As my stepdaughter traveled upon her Swiss passport and entered the U.K on this passport so no visa was applied for in Thailand, her stay here in the U.K is lawful and she does not require a visa to be here, I have checked with the HO and explained all the facts, I have been told she is here as an EEA / Swiss person, is counted as a "qualified person" and has the right of abode.

For her to apply for ILR now whilst this can only be applied for from within the U.K as I understand things because she does not have a visa so she cannot actually apply for ILR now ?, she I believe would need to either return to Thailand and start the whole visa process from there or apply for discretionary FLR from within the U.K, however this route as I understand it could only be taken on her Thai passport but not on her Swiss passport (which is how she entered the U.K). Her Thai passport will soon expire and she has no prospect of gaining a new one without either her biological fathers consent or my wife having sole custody, both of which points we are stuck on as detailed below, the Thai consulate have confirmed there is no exception or discretion with regards to this in terms of them issuing a new passport once the current one expires, no Thai passport = no FLR / ILR as I understand things.

And so for her to qualify under the EEA Permanent Residence requirements she needs to have been living here for 5 years, however her 5 years will not be complete until Dec 29th 2018 (5 years to the day she arrived), still relatively straightforward right ?, however this is complicated by the fact that her Swiss passport will expire on Dec 2nd 2018 - around 4 weeks short of her 5 years residency period and we basically have no chance to renew this or obtain a new Swiss passport as under Swiss law it can only be issued with either her biological fathers signature / permission, his whereabouts are unknown and he plays no part in his daughters life now and so obtaining his signature for a new Swiss passport is seemingly impossible (even if he could be traced it is very very unlikely he would consent to sign), the other way would be if my wife had sole custody, however her Swiss Court divorce decree gave no custody provisions as the divorce was applied for and undertaken by my wife but in her absence which apparently is very rare in Switzerland - her circumstances were quite unique. So whilst the Swiss were aware of the child they made no provision thus it is joint custody by default, the Thai Courts will not issue custody as it was not set aside within the original Swiss divorce decree and the Thai Court state the custody provisions must be made within this, also now that my stepdaughter lives here in the U.K so it now falls outside of there jurisdiction anyway as in Thai law she must be living within Thailand for them to even entertain such a case. I have then contacted a U.K lawyer and looked into obtaining a "Child Arrangement Order" via the U.K family Courts (U.K equivalent of custody) however the lawyer confirmed that as the position was there was no dispute that my stepdaughter lives with her mum, as the child's father was not on the scene and not contesting anything so they will not issue any Child Arrangement Order. So 3 Countries none of whom we can obtain custody from, no custody, no consent from my stepdaughters father = no new Swiss passport, again whilst the Swiss Embassy have been very sympathetic and helpful it has been made clear there is no discretion or loophole, no way around this.

So applying under the 5 years EEA residence rules seems impossible, as the HO letter states she would need to first acquire Permanent Residence under European law to later be able to gain British Citizenship we seem to be very stuck. As I understand things via a few phonecalls to the HO she would need / must have a valid European passport to acquire this and as outlined above her passport would just have expired and with no prospect of gaining a new one, we also looked into if she could apply in advance of the 5 years prior to the Swiss passport expiring but were told "no" that she must have completed 5 years residency here to gain PR.

What really frustrates me is I called any number of times the "0300" HO number prior to applying for my stepdaughters British Citizenship and checked we could apply even though my stepdaughter had only been in the U.K 2 years, and had entered on a Swiss passport, no visa ect ect, I went into every possible detail of her circumstances and situation but all I was ever told was "Yes" we could apply, there were no residency requirements as she was a 7 year old minor, as Mum already had her Citizenship we could apply - no ILR necessary as she had entered on Swiss passport ect, this we did then we fail due to her not being "settled" here, and to be settled her she must either have ILR or have lived here for 5 years to then gain PR, both of which I was repeatedly assured were not necessary prior to making the application, I checked and checked so many times!!!.

Should we appeal using form NR with a cover letter explaining our predicament or is this likely a waste of time and money ?, can anybody suggest a way forward as to me it seems whilst my stepdaughter can legally reside her now and is not breaking any immigration law being here, so there seems no realistic way forward for her to gain Citizenship alongside her Mum, she is in limbo and caught between a rock and a hard place, completely stuck.

There are two ways forward.
(1) They do have discretion in this matter, and could register ANY child whose future clearly lies in the UK. Requirement to have ILR or be settled/ have PR is NOT a strict requirement for children -- but perhaps, however, they do not see the urgency here, or see integration as insufficient (if it's an older child 2 years is not that much, or for instance, her being Swiss, she is not here without status, there may appear to be no compelling urgency because she will not age out of eligibility, and will eventually be able to acquire it through aqcuiring PR).

Since you have already spent the money, you can ask for reconsideration -- but again, 2 years is not very much and circumstances are not compelling, partly because this registration is not essential, on her facts, for her to actually enjoy that future in the UK.

That being said, your daughter being Swiss is not "free from conditions" entirely - EEA citizens need to satisfy requirements for right to reside, and to acquire PR eventually. So you are not correct to say that she has "right of abode", that she does not. As an Eu citizen, it will be 5 years before she is "settled", and she needs to satisfy conditions in the EEA Regulations for that to happen.

Criteria for discretional 3(1) registration is basically that a CHILDS FUTURE CLEARLY LIES IN THE UK. Does it? It may see that way to you, but older children often have their own ideas. A child is an EEA citizen with a right to Free movement. She may wish to use it. So you may apply for reconsideration, but I am not 100% optimistic. They seem to tend to suggest later applications in cases where clearly a later application is both possible and will possibly dectify current deficiencies.

(2) If you really want to pursue this, on the facts you describe, you can exit the UK (for instance to Switzerland) and apply there for ILE (indefinite leave to Enter) in the category called "child of settled parents", using her THAI passport.
You will need to prove sole responsibility, but on the facts you describe it may be possible. Children can and do get ILE with only one UK-based parent, but sole responsibility will need to be proved with evidence I am guessing that will need to be gathered in Thailand -- which will be a costly process and a lot of travel potentially involved.
The embassy in Switzerland, to whom you will have to disclose her Swiss citizenship, may be reluctant to
process an application from her under the Immigration Rules, but ultimately it is her choice which citizenship to use and they cannot refuse it. So this may be a way to go if you are really dead-set on it.

Upon re-entry with ILE, she will be free from conditions and I am guessing registered as British without a problem, on the rest of the facts.

IMHO though, there is nothing wrong with being Swiss, so make sure she has a status (eg self-sufficiency and sickness insurance) that will allow her to acquire PR and stop worrying.

If you were a client that came to me with this, chances are I'd suggest to you to not bother, get health insurance for her and wait and see.

You CAN get ILE for her, but it'd be a bit silly. Many people here would be blessed with enormous sums of money you would to spend on it. My (now at A-levels) daughter, who grew up here and as far as I can tell plans to remain here forever, refuses registration as British, says she is only American and that's it. If she was not American, I'd probably be freaking out now, but to be honest, but as it stands, I say to myself -- so what's going to happen? She gets in big trouble, she will maybe be sent to the US. Big deal.

Do you know your stepdaughter even wants to be British as much as you want it for her? Is it this urgent for her? I have been to Switzerland. They charged me 43 euros tax to drive around for several hours, and a latte costs something like 7 quid. They seem to be doing OK. Are you not solving a non-existent problem?

[olgachilds]

Oh yes, one more thing-- expiration of her SWISS passport has nothing to do with her future right to PR. She will be able to have it confirmed with an expired passport. you can take this to the bank. I would however now under Brexit conditions suggest getting health insurance and getting a Registration Certificate, as I now advise all clients to do.

I also must say that perhaps you misunderstand Swiss law. In every country there is a provision for parental consent for passport issuance, for instance the US, but there is ALWAYS a way to explain that the parent is missing, or for God's sake track him down -- I have tracked down absconded estranged fathers overseas who happily signed off on MN1 applications, and I imagine same is possible for a passport.

One of my clients had however managed a completely different solution to a similar problem, so I thought I'd mention it. It is fully possible (as it turns out, I am not a family lawyer) to have a stepchild in the Uk adopted by a step-parent, without any consent/cooperation from a missing parent. In my clietn's case, wife and children were all third-country (non-EEA nationals) in the UK on a spouse and derivative (her dependant) visas, father was alive and well and they even had his surname, although he had been estranged for a number of years. An English family court and social services all happily approved the boys' adoption by the british stepfather, to my mild surprise I might say (although i am not a family lawyer), but that made them instanteniously British and they received British passports without even registration.
Literally just happened all recently, this Spring. The mother is still on a 5-year route to settlement. The whole lot of them haven't even been in-cuntry two years.
Just food for thought.

[Petaltop]

Mention of overstay and leave to remain are wholly inappropriate as OP's daughter is not following a UK immigration trajectory.

I agree with what you said earlier. Based on the Chen ruling, she needs a CSI to be at a UK school as a self sufficient qualified person.

But now the OP has Brexit to think of too and I still don't understand why the OP didn't/doesn't just sponsor his step-daughter under UK immigration rules? Was this really all done to this child just to save a few bob?

[secret.simon]

Brexit isn't the only issue. Swexit is also looking likely, as the Swiss people have formally rejected free movement.

I was wondering if the OP was paying attention to this as well.

Unlike Brexit, where no formal action has taken place to start the clock ticking, Swiss law (as I understand it) requires Swexit to take place by February 2017 (three years after the referendum in February 2014).

Switzerland is not a part of the EU, but has bilateral treaties with it. Hence there is no equivalent of Article 50, just the end of the treaties. The negotiations are ongoing, but just keep that in the back of your mind while planning ahead.

Swiss-EU immigration curb talks creep on despite Brexit vote

Two contrary views after the Brexit referendum regarding the Swiss negotiating position;
Switzerland could gain from Britain’s EU negotiations

Swiss Pain in EU Immigration Talks Compounded by Brexit Win

NB: The purpose of this post was merely to point out to the OP that the window of opportunity for his step-daughter is not Brexit, but Swexit in February 2017.

[noajthan]

Mention of overstay and leave to remain are wholly inappropriate as OP's daughter is not following a UK immigration trajectory.

I agree with what you said earlier. Based on the Chen ruling, she needs a CSI to be at a UK school as a self sufficient qualified person.

But now the OP has Brexit to think of too and I still don't understand why the OP didn't/doesn't just sponsor his step-daughter under UK immigration rules? Was this really all done to this child just to save a few bob?

CSI suggested back in April. A rational and prudent step to take (truly insurance in both the macro and micro contexts).

[Petaltop]

NB: The purpose of this post was merely to point out to the OP that the window of opportunity for his step-daughter is not Brexit, but Swexit in February 2017.

Thank you, and Richard. I forgot the child has Swiss citizenship. I'll amend what I said above, below (as time has run out on my post.


But now the OP has Brexit and Swexit to think of too and I still don't understand why the OP didn't/doesn't just sponsor his step-daughter under UK immigration rules? Was this really all done to this child just to save a few bob?

[Richard W]

But now the OP has Brexit and Swexit to think of too and I still don't understand why the OP didn't/doesn't just sponsor his step-daughter under UK immigration rules? Was this really all done to this child just to save a few bob?

I'll let him answer for the state of his finances, though he has publicly stated that they have been under severe strain in the past few years. What he's said has led me to wonder whether he still meets the appropriate financial requirements for either the EEA or the national route.

I'm thinking one of his publicly voiced (cross-reference banned) objections may actually be wrong. He said he didn't want to remove his daughter from school while she awaited the result of the visa application. (Turn-around times in Thailand have been bad in the past, though nothing like Indian times.) However, does the daughter have to be outside the UK at all to apply for entry clearance? If so, could she lodge the application in Dublin and wait at home? The scheme would be: take a bus from NI to Dublin, automatically get 3 months residence as EEA nationals (2 Britons, 1 Swiss), lodge the visa application, and return to NI without any Swiss ID*. For the collection trip, they might be able to use a ferry, and leave mother and daughter with Irish immigration in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC Article 5(4) while he goes to collect the passport and hopefully visa from the British Embassy.

*Possible bonus: The daughter no longer has any 'time-limit' on her stay in the UK!

[noajthan]

This doesn't help OP (if he is even listening).

Someone can't pretend to be resident in Eire by virtue of a cheeky day trip (under the radar) when the family is clearly, ordinarily and habitually, resident in UK.

OP simply needs to decide what is important: child in school or child's future secured.
HO is clearly not going to bend and accommodate every whim and wish that may happen to convenience the family.
It is somewhat simplistic and naive to think they would, (All the evidence of my dealings with UKVI/HO certainly persuade me otherwise).

[ToonBarmy]

Hi

Again many thanks for all the replies, we have as i said applied for a review of original decision on form HR, we should get an outcome to this by December - as i have stated previously and before others jump in and tell me, i know this is very very unlikely to be successful - i previously compared the chances of it being successful to a lottery jackpot win and even that may inflate the odds of success, however we await this decision first.

We have found an firm whom we can get CSI (for a minor) through, i will be contacting them again tomorrow and purchasing this, i will also contact HO regarding getting a RC.

It is a conundrum knowing what is the best way forward, getting the CSI in place, RC and planning to still attempt to gain PR or whatever is put into place post brexit as first option, i am not trying to go for PR over the LR, FLR, ILR route "to save a few bob", i except that with the uncertainty surrounding Brexit and with Swiss having there own referendum looming the door may be closed on a PR route anyway, simply we do not know.

Thankfully my finances have improved, asking why we did not go the visa route previously from within Thailand 3 years ago is surely pointless ?, for whatever the reason we did not go down that road at the time the fact is we did not, stupid, short sighted, misguided, misinformed or whatever asking why we did not do something previously does not offer practical help here and now.

With the Thai passport soon to expire and with no obvious prospects of getting a new one (see original post) so returning to Thailand to make an out of Country settlement visa does not appear an option, however we have been told we could apply for discretionary leave to remain with cover letter explaining our situation, from here within the UK and then 2 years later apply for FLR and finally ILR after 5 years, the fact the Thai passport would be expired we would explain in a cover letter - this is what i have been told, is this correct or not ?, perhaps this is a more assured route as long as we meet the current / future financial thresholds though from what i can see we currently do, however i assume we will no longer be able to get CB - CTC ? or can my wife still claim these on her daughters behalf now that she is British without compromising the application ?.

[Richard W]

Someone can't pretend to be resident in Eire by virtue of a cheeky day trip (under the radar) when the family is clearly, ordinarily and habitually, resident in UK.

It seems that that sort of thing was good enough for non-EEA family members of EEA nationals before the Metock judgement, when prior lawful residence in another EEA country was required as a condition for getting a family permit. It seems that lawful presence for a weekend constituted lawful residence. Source: Where Do you Reside?

'Under the radar' is only needed because I think the girl has a Swiss passport, but no Swiss ID card. Thus, she'd have no way to get home while her visa application was under consideration. I'd forgotten that she may also have a Thai passport she could lodge with the visa application, which would make the whole EEA available.

I had found a page which said that the Dublin Embassy accepted visa application from people in the UK and Ireland - which did surprise me. On hunting again, I found a visa application centre - run by TLScontact. Of course, I can't find the residence requirements from the centre; I can only work forward from countries other than the UK.

I thought the usual requirement was to be lawfully resident in one of the countries served by the visa centre. Of course, the girl isn't lawfully (so far as I can tell), ordinarily and habitually resident anywhere. Her home is in the UK. Any other residence would be concocted to meet the minor rules. (I can't find a requirement that an applicant for ILE must be outside the UK!) When does going abroad temporarily constitute a change of residence? Aren't you suggesting that she play truant?

[Richard W]

We have found an firm whom we can get CSI (for a minor) through, i will be contacting them again tomorrow and purchasing this, i will also contact HO regarding getting a RC.

You might do better contacting this site about applying for a registration certificate. HO helplines are dangerously unreliable (it may be £65 an application, but it's months between results).

It is a conundrum knowing what is the best way forward, getting the CSI in place, RC and planning to still attempt to gain PR or whatever is put into place post brexit as first option, i am not trying to go for PR over the LR, FLR, ILR route "to save a few bob", i except that with the uncertainty surrounding Brexit and with Swiss having there own referendum looming the door may be closed on a PR route anyway, simply we do not know.

From abroad, your daughter would go straight to ILE - that's ILR upon entering the UK - rather than following the stages of a spouse. Basically, this is because your wife has already done the progression.

Thankfully my finances have improved, asking why we did not go the visa route previously from within Thailand 3 years ago is surely pointless ?

I think you hit a very nasty booby-trap, one which will catch others, especially if the UK remains in the EEA, but also on the continent. I'm glad your finances have recovered - that gives you options.

[ToonBarmy]

Thanks Richard

Whilst applying outside the UK (in Thailand) may gain her automatic ILE the problem there is her Thai passport expires in around 5 and a half weeks from now and with no prospect of getting a new one re: the custody situation, that's why an in Country application whilst it maybe longer and a costlier process is more realistically the way to go for us I guess?.

The Eire option you suggest also sounds interesting though not straightforward ?

[noajthan]

Someone can't pretend to be resident in Eire by virtue of a cheeky day trip (under the radar) when the family is clearly, ordinarily and habitually, resident in UK.

...
...
Aren't you suggesting that she play truant?

I'm suggesting nothing of the sort as I don't buy into these imaginary schemes, concocted residencies and the like.

This could and should have been sorted months if not years ago.

I once faced a similar if not bigger problem (legal, identity, absent parent, document anomalies & financial issues) and solved it in 8 months or so.

So I know how it is.
It takes persistence, attention to detail and graft not 'cunning plans'.

[Richard W]

The Eire option you suggest also sounds interesting though not straightforward ?

I think there may be residence issues, and I'm not sure if she can return to the UK without invalidating the application. That's why I had questions. It sounds too good to be true, but instead of cogent objections all I've had is scorn.

One problem nowadays is that with interactive forms it is much harder to check out plans. It's even conceivable that the interactive forms are set up to stop Swiss nationals applying for ILE. One possible show stopper is that one cannot complete a truthful visa application for someone who is in the UK, at least, not before the date of departure. There may be other traps that are sprung later.

[noajthan]

The Eire option you suggest also sounds interesting though not straightforward ?

I think there may be residence issues, and I'm not sure if she can return to the UK without invalidating the application. That's why I had questions. It sounds too good to be true, but instead of cogent objections all I've had is scorn.

Ref http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 12726.html

[ToonBarmy]

Hi

Well the Eire option seems a non option though thanks for suggesting - any guidance or help is much appreciated.

As stated an application out of the UK (Thailand) for ILE seems to be out of the question due to expired Thai passport (in 5 weeks) and no prospect of gaining a new one, we cannot as i understand apply for Discretionary Leave To Remain from within the UK, any such applications can only be made from outside UK.

So from what i can see the PR option is our only option ( or whatever if any transitional arrangements are put into place post Brexit ) and yes i can see there is also the Swexit situation to factor in, however im not sure what else we can now do ?, we have today got the CSI in place and once i have the policy documents with me next week so i will apply for a RC. Out of interest the only company i could find who offer CSI specifically for a minor was AXA insurance, the cost is very reasonable at £222 per year, this may well benefit others in future also needing to purchase this.

[Richard W]

Ref http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 12726.html

Well, that would give her a route to reside indefinitely in the UK, but it might only last for as long as she stayed in the UK. I can't see her being able to renew such a CTA entitlement if the UK or Switzerland severs the connection with the EEA, and I wouldn't be surprised if acquisition of the CTA entitlement became effectively restricted to Irish citizens again even if the UK stays in the EEA.

As stated an application out of the UK (Thailand)...

Why are Thailand and Switzerland the only options? Is it because an application has to be lodged from a country of nationality or the place of permanent residence? Obviously Thailand wouldn't qualify as a place of permanent residence - the girl lives in the UK!

[Richard W]

Actually, is applying for ILE from Thailand logistically impossible? One scheme that comes to mind is to use the Swiss passport. The procedure would be to enter Thailand as a Swiss national (on no account present the Thai passport, valid or expired, on arrival in Thailand), get 12 months extension of stay as a Thai national, and then apply for ILE as a Swiss national. Does this fall foul of UK rules? (I think Thailand's extension of stay rule was intended for former Thai nationals, but dual nationals use it when they couldn't enter on a Thai passport.)