EU family member dilemma

[create]

I am an EU family member who has just gained an EU citizenship. I have been in the UK as an EU family for 3yrs. What is next for me. Can I apply for an EU right to live now that my status is changed from family member to an EU citizen. What happens next when my current EEA residence expires. Will I qualify to apply as an EU citizen even though my initial status was family member when the time comes to apply for permanent residence.

Thanks for taking your time to read through.

[noajthan]

Moved to EEA forum.

[noajthan]

I am an EU family member who has just gained an EU citizenship. I have been in the UK as an EU family for 3yrs. What is next for me. Can I apply for an EU right to live now that my status is changed from family member to an EU citizen. What happens next when my current EEA residence expires. Will I qualify to apply as an EU citizen even though my initial status was family member when the time comes to apply for permanent residence.

Thanks for taking your time to read through.

Are you exercising treaty rights in UK?

[Richard W]

I am an EU family member who has just gained an EU citizenship. I have been in the UK as an EU family for 3yrs. What is next for me. Can I apply for an EU right to live now that my status is changed from family member to an EU citizen. What happens next when my current EEA residence expires. Will I qualify to apply as an EU citizen even though my initial status was family member when the time comes to apply for permanent residence.

The most useful document showing your status will be your EU passport. Brexit is the only reason for obtaining a registration certificate now. To obtain it, you will have to provide evidence that you are yourself are exercising treaty rights or are still the family member of a permanent resident or EEA national exercising treaty rights. On the other hand, it may well be worth applying for your Document Certifying Permanent Residence (DCPR) as soon as you qualify for permanent residence - on completing 5 consecutive years of residence on the basis of the EEA Regulations (as something other than the holder of a derivative right of residence). You may complete these 5 years using a mix of statuses and nationalities. You will apply as an EU citizen.

[create]

Thanks for your responses.
Richard at the moment am currently excising treaty rights as a holder of EEA2 residence. However I am thinking of applying for a permanent residence as soon as my current EEA2 expires. I am just wondering if I can apply as an EU Citizen rather than as a family member.
my current residence expires in 2yrs time.

cheers.

[Richard W]

I am just wondering if I can apply as an EU Citizen rather than as a family member.

One of the tick-box options on the application form EEA(PR) may make things a little clearer for you:

I’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as an EEA national qualified person, the family member or extended family member of a qualified person, or a combination of these.

EU citizens (from birth) often apply and qualify as family members.

The application form (EEA(PR)) has a section for biometrics to be completed by those who aren't EEA nationals. If you correctly record your nationalities on the form, I suspect the biometric section will be ignored even if completed. As you are an EU national, you should ignore that part of the form and apply for a DCPR, as opposed to a PRC. Would you rather receive a PRC?

You should in general complete the form as a family member rather than as a 'qualified person', i.e. as someone exercising treaty rights. Have you or are you about to cease to be a family member of your sponsor for any reason? I will assume you remain a family member. For the first 3 years or so, you were not in any sense a 'qualified person', for you were not an EEA national, so you will have to complete the section about your sponsor. For the final period, your exercising treaty rights may be relevant, which is why Noajthan asked you if you were exercising them. Please answer him.

[noajthan]

Yes, you can mix and match your statuses and citizenships; other members have reported doing this.

Make sure you have good, clear supporting documentary evidence to cover every step of the way,

[create]

I am an EU family member who has just gained an EU citizenship. I have been in the UK as an EU family for 3yrs. What is next for me. Can I apply for an EU right to live now that my status is changed from family member to an EU citizen. What happens next when my current EEA residence expires. Will I qualify to apply as an EU citizen even though my initial status was family member when the time comes to apply for permanent residence.

Thanks for taking your time to read through.

Are you exercising treaty rights in UK?

Yes I am. I have been working since my arrival. I came in 3yrs ago. My wife is on maternity leave. However last year she was wasn't working for about 7months due to some private issues. All along I have been the one working non stop. We have never used any benefit whatsoever. Except for the child benefit.

[noajthan]

Are you exercising treaty rights in UK?

Yes I am. I have been working since my arrival. I came in 3yrs ago. My wife is on maternity leave. However last year she was wasn't working for about 7months due to some private issues. All along I have been the one working non stop. We have never used any benefit whatsoever. Except for the child benefit.

Member Richard W has given you a sensible overview.

For the period as a non-EEA national your status was totally reliant on sponsor/spouse's status as qualified person.
Your previous activity in UK (however valuable and fulfilling) is totally immaterial (as long as legal).

Make sure you have rock-solid evidence to support wife's sponsorship of you.

Does spouse/sponsor have DCPR?
If not, how else has spouse/sponsor been exercising treaty rights in UK over past 3 years (or more)?
Has spouse been a student during any of that time?

If spouse was a worker she should have retained worker status whilst blessed to be on maternity leave.
Was she a worker (especially before going on leave) ?

Now you have become a Union citizen you have the choice of remaining dependent on your sponsor as a direct family member.
Or, if you have current and ongoing evidence of your new status as a qualified person, you could use that to serve the remainder of your time to acquire PR status in approx 2 years time.

Without going into details, who has the 'best' income (as HO may apply its PET/MET tests to confirm the designated qualified person's worker status).

However, be aware the 7 months hiatus due to sponsor's private issues at sometime in recent years is a concern.
The risk is the PR clock (for both of you) was stopped.

• When was that? (dates)
  What was that all about? (bearing in mind this is a public forum)
  What was sponsor doing at that time? jobseeking? selfsufficient? or just 'resting'?
  Was sponsor even in UK?

Has sponsor or you enjoyed any other prolonged absences from UK in past 3 years?

[create]

Let me retract. At the moment am not excersing any rights. My wife is. I have just got my EU nationairy just last week. So am still a family member. Should I notify the home office and apply for right of residence and change my status from family member to an EU national. Or should I just continue with my family member residence status(EEA2).

[secret.simon]

However, be aware the 7 months hiatus due to sponsor's private issues at sometime in recent years is a concern.
The risk is the PR clock (for both of you) was stopped.

When was that? (dates)
What was that all about? (bearing in mind this is a public forum)
What was sponsor doing at that time? jobseeking? selfsufficient? or just 'resting?
Was sponsor even in UK?

Has sponsor or you enjoyed any other prolonged absences from UK in past 3 years?

As regards acquiring PR, noajthan's questions are the important ones.

Was your wife job-seeking (and if so, do you have proof of that) or was she self-sufficient (and in that case, did she have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance) during those 7 months?

Be aware that her being self-sufficient (even on your earnings) without CSI for all her family members including herself for those 7 months would reset the PR clock for all of you.

"Prolonged" absences can be defined as more than six months in a year.

Once we have the answers to these questions, we can guide you further and better.

No need to notify Home Office as your status as a family member continues. Besides, you are not exercising treaty rights yourself, so you do not have any independent right to reside in the UK. Your present right is only as a family member anyway.

[noajthan]

Let me retract. At the moment am not excersing any rights. My wife is. I have just got my EU nationairy just last week. So am still a family member. Should I notify the home office and apply for right of residence and change my status from family member to an EU national. Or should I just continue with my family member residence status(EEA2).

Its your choice how you see your status.
With its 'anything goes' laissez-faire mindset free movement really is that free and easy.
(Some people may even miss it when its gone).

You have no outstanding application for anything so no need to inform HO of a change in material facts.
However with all the wild talk and uncertainty around Brexit it may be prudent to apply for a RC via EEA(QP).

Your case is an interesting example of how a 'current' RC is really only current on the day of issue; the RC you have now is representing the holder as having a different nationality.

There is still the open question around that "7 months" gap and whether both your PR clocks had stopped at that time.

[create]

She couldn't work cos we lost our twins. From 02.01.2015 to 31.07.15. I was the only one working. I have never been out of the UK for more than 2weeks at a time. And I have not spend up to 2months abroad in total.

[create]

Am thinking since there is a gap with my sponsor. Can't I apply for myself as an EU national since I would have been working for 5yrs. Would the break affect my application despite I would be at regarded as an EU National not a family member

[secret.simon]

I have just got my EU nationairy just last week.

You can only exercise treaty rights only once you become an EEA citizen. So, if you became an EEA citizen last week, the earliest you could exercise treaty rights is last week. You can't backdate it to when you were a non-EEA family member of an EEA citizen.

I have never been out of the UK for more than 2weeks at a time. And I have not spend up to 2months abroad in total.

What about your sponsor spouse? Remember that if her period of exercising treaty rights had a break, it resets the clock for both of you.

From 02.01.2015 to 31.07.15.

Was your wife in the UK or away in this period? Was she employed but on leave (either paid or unpaid)?

[create]

She was out of work during this time

[secret.simon]

Your spouse's seven month break may be covered by Regulation 6(2)(a), but I will leave it for others to advise on whether it would definitely be covered.

[noajthan]

She was out of work during this time

There is no benefit of doubt, no allowances made nor backdating in this system.

For 6.2(a) to kick in my understanding is wife would have to have been undergoing a well-documented regime of medical care.

Otherwise, if not jobseeking (with proof) and not self sufficient (with CSI in place all round) then PR clock stopped.
Assuming wife remained in UK at that time.

When PR clock restarted again (for you and for wife/sponsor) depends on precise dates, activities (and, perhaps, nationalities).

What has spouse/sponsor's status been since August 2015?

When did wife arrive in UK?
I sense wife is Italian is that correct? (so no WRS nonsense to worry about).
How long has she been a qualified person?
Student?

If wife already has PR (DCPR) from 'back in the day' then the recent break won't matter.

[Richard W]

Without going into details, who has the 'best' income (as HO may apply its PET/MET tests to confirm the designated qualified person's worker status).

I'm slightly confused here. Assuming the PR did not stop at the 7 month hiatus, from now on, when would a spouse be 'designated' as a sponsor? The wife is clearly the sponsor for the DCPR application in terms of filling in the form, for she was the only qualified person for the first three years. The 'sponsor' for the form is just a best approximation; it does not imply that that partner was always the sponsor. However, once the husband is a 'worker', he may sponsor, and indeed, they may take it in turns to be the one sponsoring the other. As far as I can tell, the caseworker is supposed to work out whether there was a sponsor at any particular time, and it doesn't matter who the sponsor was.

The only case where 'designation' would be relevant is in an RC for a child of the couple, in which case there is a slight advantage in choosing the parent with the securest employment. The RC would only be relevant for Brexit, and it saddens me that a few hundred million pounds could be wasted on unnecessary cards and certificates, even if it counts as a boost to the economy.

[create]

I think to get a full grasp of my situation I would start from the time of my arrival. I came in November 2013. Wife started work I'm April 2014..became pregnant a month later. We had our loss in September. She continued work up until 02-01-2015 and started work in july2015. Became pregnant during this time and in August/Sept. went on her maternity leave
April2016.
We both applied for EEA1 and EEA2 and received it in 2014.

[noajthan]

So it seems wife does not have PR yet.
That means you need to cover the 7 month break or else your joint PR clock will have been reset to zero in 2015.

Did wife arrive in UK in 2014 and only start work in 2014?
Where you married then?
If so no PR can be acquired by anyone before 2019 (if UK is till in EU family by then).

How were you able to work from 2013?
If wife was with you in UK in 2013 what was she doing?

[create]

We were married before moving to the UK.I used my family permit to work in march 2014. While she started work in April 2014. There was a break for 7months in 2015.

She is currently on maternity leave now after working from july/august 2015.

My residence expires 2019.

[noajthan]

We were married before moving to the UK.I used my family permit to work in march 2014. While she started work in April 2014. There was a break for 7months in 2015.

She is currently on maternity leave now after working from july/august 2015.

My residence expires 2019.

So if you can account for the 7 months and keep PR clock running then you should both acquire PR in 2019.

If the break stopped the PR clock and it resumed later in 2015 (or 2016) then, ordinarily, PR would be acquired by 2020 (or 2021).