Right to Aboard and COE

[arabindianbritish]

Dear Gurus,

My daughter was born in India. She has settlement dependent visa now same for my wife. I wanted to know if once I acquire BC which I will apply shortly. I am on ILR for past 3 years. Instead to getting BC for my child can I get COE on her Indian passport.

I cannot find any details on this. I can only see my daughter will be eligible for BC registeration after she gets ILR. But really I dont want her to be BC until she is 18 years of age. We are planning to R2I in couple of years.

Also my future kids can do the same?

I would appreciate if anyone can share your expertise.

Thank you

[CR001]

My daughter was born in India. She has settlement dependent visa now same for my wife. I wanted to know if once I acquire BC which I will apply shortly. I am on ILR for past 3 years. Instead to getting BC for my child can I get COE on her Indian passport. No, she cannot. This would ONLY be applicable if she was born abroad AFTER you got BC.

I cannot find any details on this. I can only see my daughter will be eligible for BC registeration after she gets ILR. But really I dont want her to be BC until she is 18 years of age. We are planning to R2I in couple of years. Have no idea what 'R2I' is. If she holds ILR, she can apply for BC at any point, even as an adult (which is more expensive and has more requirements). Remember that ILR is lost with absence of more than 2 years from the UK.

Also my future kids can do the same? Any children born abroad AFTER you are BC, will be automatically BC.

I would appreciate if anyone can share your expertise.

Thank you

[arabindianbritish]

Thanks for your info. So my daughter cannot acquire COE. She needs to be either on ILR or BC. R2I is returning to India for good.

I am planning to move to India. So what really is that my future kids who are born here or in India after I get BC can acquire COE but not my daughter.

Please correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

Thanks for clarifying.

[CR001]

Thanks for your info. So my daughter cannot acquire COE. She needs to be either on ILR or BC. Only a BC can get CoE or RoA

R2I is returning to India for good. Please type normally rather than 'text speak'.

I am planning to move to India. So what really is that my future kids who are born here or in India after I get BC can acquire COE but not my daughter. Correct. And if she is away from the UK 'for good', she loses her ILR status too and any route to BC is then closed to her unless she starts again from scratch if you move back before she is 18. Once she is 18, she will have to qualify for a visa in her own right.

Please correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Noetic]

It will be difficult for you to obtain British Citizenship without lying to the Home Office about your future intentions since you've already said you are going to move back to India for good.

[arabindianbritish]

Ofcourse I wont say on my application.

[secret.simon]

CoE-RoA is only available to British citizens who do not have a British passport, but who do have the passport of another country.

Once registered as a British citizen, your child will automatically lose her Indian citizenship and will need to apply for OCI to stay in India.

As she will have lost her Indian citizenship, she can not qualify for CoE-RoA as she won't qualify for an Indian passport. She will have to have a British passport.

Children who are born with dual Indian/British citizenship (to either an ILR parent in the UK or to a British citizen and Indian citizen couple in India) can get CoE-RoA on an Indian passport. Children who are registered as British citizens automatically lose their Indian citizenship and hence must carry a British passport, with OCI if they plan to stay permanently in India.

Children born abroad can typically only be registered as British citizens after both parents and the child involved are settled in the UK and at least one parent has got British citizenship. If your wife does not acquire ILR, your child won't be registered as a British citizen.

If she intends to study in the UK as a British citizen, be aware that she will need to be resident for three years (immediately preceding the commencement of her studies) in the UK to qualify for home fees. Otherwise, she will be charged and treated as if an overseas student, even though she will be a British citizen.

[Noetic]

Ofcourse I wont say on my application.

You'll just knowingly lie on your application instead?.

(I say this as someone whose circumstances and future plans have been repeatedly changed by my employer since I applied via NCS in May)

[ohara]

Ofcourse I wont say on my application.

So you're going to lie then? Because there is a question asking where you intend to make your home, and at the end of the application you have to sign a declaration stating that you have been truthful.

I'm keen to see how this ends up.

Just out of curiosity, why are you so desperate to obtain British citizenship for your whole family if you intend to return to India for good? Surely it's better to be a citizen of your own country.

[Noetic]

Just out of curiosity, why are you so desperate to obtain British citizenship for your whole family if you intend to return to India for good? Surely it's better to be a citizen of your own country.

Particularly since India doesn't allow dual nationality. Makes no sense at all

[secret.simon]

It may be best not to judge the OP on this aspect of the issue.

Many people from the South Asian sub-continent have remarked that they intend to return to India after completing their UK immigration journey because they wish to look after their parents and under current UK immigration law, it is either almost impossible (UK Immigration Rules) or complex and difficult (SS route under the EEA Regulations). Therefore, after having acquired UK citizenship, they opt to return to their home country to look after their family members. That way, after their filial duties cease, they can return to the UK.

[noajthan]

Ofcourse I wont say on my application.

Not advisable to play fast and loose with such applications.

[arabindianbritish]

Thanks Simon for your reply. We as from Asian Sub Continent dont have previledge to come and leave as we like.

So the only options is to find a way to have best of both worlds

Hence seeking advise.

So what if my daughter was born in Uk I could have taken her Indian passport and applied for COE. But since she is born in India whilst I was holding ILR she cannot have COE. She can only hold BC and passport.

[secret.simon]

if my daughter was born in Uk I could have taken her Indian passport and applied for COE. But since she is born in India whilst I was holding ILR she cannot have COE. She can only hold BC and passport.

If your daughter was born in the UK AND you or your wife had ILR/PR on the date of her birth, then the Indian passport+CoE-RoA option was possible.

In all other circumstances (if you acquired ILR after she was born, for example), the choice is of Indian passport + ILR (which expires after two years outside the UK) or British passport + OCI.

[arabindianbritish]

Understood. In my case I had ILR when was born in India. She is in UK on dependent visa and my wife has settlement spouse visa. I guess only option is to register her as BC after she gets ILR and get OCI. But I presume my future kids will have options to either have British passport or Indian passport?

[secret.simon]

Both your wife and daughtre will have to get ILR and you will have to naturalise for the daughter to be registered as a British citizen.

I presume my future kids will have options to either have British passport or Indian passport?

If they are born after you naturalise (after the date of your citizenship ceremony), they will be British by descent if they are born outside the UK.

If their mother remains an Indian citizen, and the children are born in India, the children will have the right to an Indian passport, so long as they do not apply for a British passport.

In such a scenario (British father + Indian mother and born in India), Indian passport + CoE-RoA is also possible.

Remember that any children born to you outside the UK (after you become a British citizen) will be British by descent and hence they can not pass on their British citizenship to their children (your grand children), unless the grand children are born in the UK.

[arabindianbritish]

Great information.

Thank you

[Richard W]

Remember that any children born to you outside the UK (after you become a British citizen) will be British by descent and hence they can not pass on their British citizenship to their children (your grand children), unless the grand children are born in the UK.

That is, for free. 3 years consecutive residence in the UK will make such British children sufficiently British to be able to buy British citizenship for their minor children subsequently born outside the UK (BNA 1981 Section 3(2)).

[noajthan]

Remember that any children born to you outside the UK (after you become a British citizen) will be British by descent and hence they can not pass on their British citizenship to their children (your grand children), unless the grand children are born in the UK.

That is, for free. 3 years consecutive residence in the UK will make such British children sufficiently British to be able to buy British citizenship for their minor children subsequently born outside the UK (BNA 1981 Section 3(2)).

Easy tiger.

It is important to note that a child registered under this section will be a British citizen by descent and unable to pass British citizenship automatically by descent to any of their children born abroad.

It is a misconception to think in terms of 'buying' of citizenship; it is not guaranteed.
However a sojourn of 3 years in UK with parent/s may earn such an offspring the privilege of citizenship other than by descent; s.3(5).

[Richard W]

It is a misconception to think in terms of 'buying' of citizenship; it is not guaranteed.

Purchase under Section 3(2) is an entitlement unless the child has reached the age of 10; the child's lack of good character may remove the right thereafter (Section 41A); and at 18 the right evaporates. Do you have some other restriction in mind, such as the definitions of 'father' and 'mother'?

However a sojourn of 3 years in UK with parent/s may earn such an offspring the privilege of citizenship other than by descent; s.3(5).

Registration under Section 3(5), while better, requires a greater commitment to the UK and usually costs more - at least two losts of fees. The child usually first needs a visa, and the mother will often (usually?) need one as well.

Confusingly, if the OP's eldest child is registered as British (at discretion, under Section 3(1)), and stays British, her children will automatically be British wherever they are born.

[noajthan]

The point is 3(5) confers other than by descent; 3(2) does not.

And noone gets to buy anything with 3(2), the 'entitlement' it is predicated on past events

The British citizen by descent parent must have lived in the UK (...) for a continuous period of 3 years at any time before the child’s birth

Why should 3(1) be confusing; it is what it is, based on settlement in UK and future clearly in UK.
A just reward and again not purchasable.