Blatant Money Making Scam - Italy Schengen Visa

[mpkayeuk]

Hi Folks,

I am a British Citizen and my wife a Filipino national. She has a UK spouse visa in her passport clearly determining myself as her husband.

My wife visited VFS to hand over the requirements for a Schengen visa to Italy, the application being made under the non-EU family member rules. We supplied my passport, her passport and our marriage certificate and our flight confirmation showing we are travelling together. We have successfully done this 2 times previously for Spain and Germany respectively.

My wife was incorrectly charged a visa fee (equivalent to regular Schengen C visa fee) for the sole reason that her marriage certificate was not legalised. A close look at the VFS website for Italy confirms this is as a requirement, however, I don't believe this is fair or legal.

My main issue is that the Italian Consulate in the UK clearly accept that my wife is genuinely my wife, as they do not require any additional supporting documents, only a "fee" to cover the fact the marriage certificate is not legalised. I quote directly from the VFS Italy visa requirements page:

"If the marriage/birth certificate is not legalised by the respective country’s UK based Embassy or consulate, the applicant will be subjected to the appropriate visa fee."

This is clearly a money making scam. Surely it can not be legal! I would expect them to at least say we don't meet the requirements for a non-EU family member visa and that we must also submit the additional information as required by a regular non-EU tourist.

Can someone confirm that what they are routinely doing is not correct and, if that is the case, what to do about it?

Thanks,

Mark

[secret.simon]

Start by contacting Solvit.

To the best of my knowledge, the Italian consulate can make the same requirements of a noon-Italian EEA citizen as regards documentation as it would of an Italian citizen. So, if an Italian citizen is required by Italian law to provide a legalised marriage certificate, they can impose the same requirement on an non-Italian EU citizen and impose the same level of fines/charges.

[mpkayeuk]

So, if an Italian citizen is required by Italian law to provide a legalised marriage certificate, they can impose the same requirement on an non-Italian EU citizen and impose the same level of fines/charges.

And here's the rub. Italy do indeed make the same requirement of Italian citizens, but there is no mention of the "appropriate visa fee" on the consulate website. In any case... what, exactly, is the appropriate visa fee? How can I possibly determine that? Which visa would I be applying for, exactly? As far as I know there is a Type C short stay visit visa which has two classes, non-EU family member travelling with or joining, etc, and general visit (for whatever purpose).

Each Type C visa class has specific application requirements. Can Italy effectively make up a third Type C visa class, say non-EU family member travelling with or joining, etc, but without a legalised marriage certificate? This appears to be what they have done. VFS were not clear on what visa we had actually paid for, or indeed whether it qualified for the "accelerated procedure" offered by the non-EU family member route. Neither could they say whether, via this mystery visa class, Italy were bound by their obligations under Directive 2004/38/EC.

This is a total mess on Italy's behalf, I'm surprised nobody has raised this issue in any depth previously or maybe they have and I couldn't find it (I did see someone just paid the fee and was happy with that). But it really needs clarification. And I still can't see how this is legal. I mean in what sense can you levy a charge to waive a visa requirement? Most would call that corruption!

I will contact Solvit and ask their view on it, but I think the discussion here is worthwhile.

[mgb]

If you accept that the visa application will be handled as tourist visa is your decision.
There is a fee for a tourist visa.

Regarding the visa for the family member of a eu citizen take a look at the visa handbook
C(2014) 2727 consolidated part III.

3.7. Burden of proof
.
.
A Member State may require that the relevant documents are translated, notarised or legalised where the original document is drawn up in a language that is not understood by the authorities of the Member State concerned or if there are doubts as to the authenticity of the document.

[mpkayeuk]

If you accept that the visa application will be handled as tourist visa is your decision.
There is a fee for a tourist visa.

I think you're misunderstanding the main point. How can it be handled as a tourist visa when we haven't submitted sufficient documentation for that visa class. We have submitted only the documentation required of non-EU family member route, which VFS readily accepted and which at least one other post on here confirms has been successful. I suppose the answer will be in the final decision. If they approve the visa then they are basically saying they are charging a fee to waive their requirement for a legalised marriage certificate. Surely they can't do that, because by definition it means they are accepting that in all likelihood, the marriage certificate is genuine.

Regarding the visa for the family member of a eu citizen take a look at the visa handbook
C(2014) 2727 consolidated part III.

3.7. Burden of proof
.
.
A Member State may require that the relevant documents are translated, notarised or legalised where the original document is drawn up in a language that is not understood by the authorities of the Member State concerned or if there are doubts as to the authenticity of the document.

The marriage certificate is in English (one of the two official languages of the Philippines) and has the original receipt from the Philippines National Statistics Office stapled to it. There can be little doubt as to its authenticity, especially when corroborated with the UK Spouse visa in my wife's passport. Also, consider that 2 other Schengen nations did not have any doubt as to its authenticity, and neither did UKBA. All with hard evidence (previous visas) in her passport as submitted.

[mpkayeuk]

3.7. Burden of proof
.
.
A Member State may require that the relevant documents are translated, notarised or legalised where the original document is drawn up in a language that is not understood by the authorities of the Member State concerned or if there are doubts as to the authenticity of the document.

I would also add that the wording above is quite clear. Either the marriage certificate has to be in a language understood, and I believe English qualifies, or there must be doubts as to the authenticity of the document. The latter point, doubts as to authenticity, can not be met until the marriage certificate has been physically seen. The wording does not allow a nation to assume that all Non-EU marriage certificates are false. This is contrary to the published policy of the Italian Consulate.

[mgb]

Say who? If they have the right for doubts they have the right for doubts.
It is pretty common that documents without a apostille or legisation are not acknowledged in other countries.

[mgb]

I think you're misunderstanding the main point. How can it be handled as a tourist visa when we haven't submitted sufficient documentation for that visa class.

Tell them your doubts and they will deny the visa.

[mpkayeuk]

I think you're misunderstanding the main point. How can it be handled as a tourist visa when we haven't submitted sufficient documentation for that visa class.

Tell them your doubts and they will deny the visa.

Naturally. However, it was pretty clear at VFS, and one other post here, that this is a routine matter. I guess in your mind what they are doing okay. In mine it is an obvious abuse of the rules in a cynical attempt to make money.

The authenticity point is secondary to the issue anyway. If Italy do refuse the visa then it will confirm that, at least in my case, all is well with the process. I will get a refund anyway as VFS could not tell me what I had actually applied for. Clearly we wouldn't submit an application if we knew the requirements were not met. As it was, VFS assured us there would be no problems, hence the reason for this discussion.

[mpkayeuk]

Okay, so, Italy HAS approved the visa. Which also proves this is a money making scam on their behalf.

To be clear:

- My wife submitted only the requirements required of a Directive 2004/38/EC visa.
- Our marriage certificate is not legalised.
- Italy requires a legalised marriage certificate otherwise we have to pay "the appropriate visa fee"
- We paid the fee
- Italy issues the visa

This is a money making scam. No question about it. How can they issue the visa if they don't believe we are married without the additional requirements necessary for a regular tourist visa? If they believe we are married we are entitled to a free visa, irrespective of the requirements they have dreamed up.

Comments?

[jul1]

Many is trying to abuse the system, they are trying to slow/making harder the process related to non-eea person, unfortunately this is how it is, especially if this requirement is on their website.
Real freedom of movement comes only when you are an EU citizen, achieving that should be the highest priority for the non-eu, until than life is a hassle.