EEA EFM app. REFUSED with unmarried EU partner

[Junior15]

Hello everyone and thank you for the help you give.

I am italian, i came in UK in 2010, always worked full-time and studying at university from 2013. I met my partner (zimbabwean) in 2011 and we live together since then.
My partner came here in 2002 with a student visa expired in 2004 and from then he never renewed it (just neglect...) but he always worked and pay tax as normal, even for big companies. We tried to apply with EEA unmarried partner route years ago, but the lawyer made us spend lots of money for nothing. We tried again last year with EEA EFM application, and i also applied for residence card. After 6 months, i received the r.c. but they refused my partner's application. Now, the HO required proves of a genuine relationship like joint account, bills and house contract.. My partner worked always with agencies and he used to be pay by cheque so no bank account. We lived in shared house for 3 years, and i used to pay the landlord by cash, so no contract. No bills, they used to be included in the rent. We have got though, a lot of pictures together, even facebook where you can see people comments with date and time (and i put those in the envelope for the HO); we have got a post card i sent him from Italy, and few letters for him with the same address as mine.
Most important: we had a baby in 2015 and another will be due in few months.
We appealed at the tribunal in march this year and we are still waiting for the hearing.
They did not consider at all the proves we have sent. He's unemployed from 3 years, so i pay all bills and everything, and our life is extremely miserable.
I forgot: the HO retained his passport and to get it back (as written on the website) he has to drop his application.
Any suggestion from you people?
Sorry for such a long topic.

[CR001]

What evidence and proof did you submit that you are a qualified person exercising treaty rights?

As an overstayer, your partner has been working illegally if they held no valid visa?

[Casa]

Your partner may well be asked to provide a DNA test to prove paternity of the child you have together.

If he was paid by cheque by his employer, without a bank account where was the cheque deposited?

As CR001 has commented, he was working illegally, which doesn't help your case.

Postcards and photos don't prove a durable relationship 'akin to marriage'.

[Junior15]

Thanks for your answer.
1) for my residence card i sent all my P60 from 2010, letter from work which confirm my employment, letter from university, student loan letters and private insurance.

2) He has been working with an agency for many years, they used to pay him by cheque and then he used to go to the bank to collect the money. The agency knew about his status, but they still gave him jobs. He worked even for BHS and NHS. A couple of years ago the agency went in bankrupt.

They have not ask us to provide DNA test, we would not have a problem about it.
Regarding the proves i have sent, they should consider the letters at the same address and post card. At least they could consider the baby and he should have rights as a dad and partner.
What do you suggest? Still wait for the appeal, or (as suggested from some lawyer we have seen), go either in my or his country, get married and "try" to come back here?... (very risky...)
Many thanks.

[noajthan]

Thanks for your answer.
1) for my residence card i sent all my P60 from 2010, letter from work which confirm my employment, letter from university, student loan letters and private insurance.

2) He has been working with an agency for many years, they used to pay him by cheque and then he used to go to the bank to collect the money. The agency knew about his status, but they still gave him jobs. He worked even for BHS and NHS. A couple of years ago the agency went in bankrupt.

They have not ask us to provide DNA test, we would not have a problem about it.
Regarding the proves i have sent, they should consider the letters at the same address and post card. At least they could consider the baby and he should have rights as a dad and partner.
What do you suggest? Still wait for the appeal, or (as suggested from some lawyer we have seen), go either in my or his country, get married and "try" to come back here?... (very risky...)
Many thanks.

You have not done enough to prove partner is an unmarried partner in a durable relationship with you that is akin to marriage.
It is not enough to imagine you are in such a relationship, you have to prove it to hard-nosed, hard-hearted caseworkers who apply the EEA Regulations.
A few photos and letters won't cut it, even a lodger or a penpal could come up with those.

The illegal working etc will come back to haunt partner if he manages to stay in this country and has ambitions for privilege of citizenship.

Partner may have some sort of tenuous, derivative right through child. However that will not lead to permanent residence (and citizenship).

Any particular reason why you cannot marry?
Although registering to marry will open partner to possible detention and possible removal.
However that is the situation anyway as partner currently has no obvious right to reside as the unmarried partner of a Union citizen and may be subject to administrative removal.

You can dig into how a caseworker will weigh up and assess the case here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

[secret.simon]

Looking at the theory of the situation rather than the actuality.

Could a family member who has worked illegally in the country for ten years be refused under the EEA regulations on the grounds of public policy?

[Junior15]

Thank you noajthan.

In the refusal letter, the reason is because the proves we have sent are not enough to consider a durable relationship, there is no mention about his illegal employment during 10 years. We really do not know what to send then. We lived together since 2011 and, not necessarily all couples in the world have joint bank account or bills.

Also no, we cannot get married because they ask him a passport, which is with the HO and we don't know how to get it back.

How long it will take for this bloody tribunal to give us an appointment???
Is this country allowed to retain someone's passport depriving him to have an identity?
Although he worked as an overstaying, they were lawful employments and he payed taxes on it, what about this?

[noajthan]

Thank you noajthan.

In the refusal letter, the reason is because the proves we have sent are not enough to consider a durable relationship, there is no mention about his illegal employment during 10 years. We really do not know what to send then. We lived together since 2011 and, not necessarily all couples in the world have joint bank account or bills.

Also no, we cannot get married because they ask him a passport, which is with the HO and we don't know how to get it back.

How long it will take for this bloody tribunal to give us an appointment???
Is this country allowed to retain someone's passport depriving him to have an identity?
Although he worked as an overstaying, they were lawful employments and he payed taxes on it, what about this?

You will face the consequences of the illegal working at a later date if partner stays in UK.
The wheel of immigration karma will not turn that far at this preliminary stage of EU-related documentation.

However to remain in UK as your unmarried partner, your partner needs an EFM RC.
You need to show you have a sustained and durable relationship so take a look at the HO guidance I linked for you;
that will let you into the head of the caseworker assessing your case.

The challenge is that an overstayer typically keeps their head down;
they do not generate the kind of papertrail that HO is specifically looking for to prove such a relationship of 'joint venture' and shared goals/aims.

And yes, HO typically holds onto passports; not sure on what basis or regulations but its common practice.
Again if you raise your head above the parapet in order to register a marriage you are likely to draw the 'heat'.

There is no published timeline for appeals.

Your best bet may be to leave, marry abroad;
partner can then apply for a FP to come back into UK as the spouse of a Union citizen and regularise himself in that way.
Hubby may apply for an optional RC as a direct family member.

Obviously if Brexit stays on the rails there is no time to acquire permanent residence but it is what it is and you are where you are.

[Noetic]

Most important: we had a baby in 2015 and another will be due in few months.
...
He's unemployed from 3 years, so i pay all bills and everything, and our life is extremely miserable.

Immigration officials may wonder why any responsible person of good character in such a self described miserable situation would think it's a good idea to pop out another baby...

[Mumu1906]

Hi
For the proofs of living under the same roof you must have some documents such as doctors letters, nursery letter,child benefit or mobile phone bills. After several years together I can't imagine that you don't receive any letter.
If you receive some documents for you or your children in your name you need to contact the autorities or companies involved to have both names mentioned.
For your marriage your husband needs his passport in England.
In Scotland they just ask for a birth certificate.
I hope that helps.

[secret.simon]

For your marriage your husband needs his passport in England.
In Scotland they just ask for a birth certificate.

Are you sure about this? As I understand it, the rules regarding marriage for non-EEA citizens are uniform across the UK.

[Junior15]

Thank you all.
@mumu1906
Yes, we've got few letters and birth certificate of the baby, and i put those in the application, but they were not considered.
@Noetic
I know it sounds mad, but firts of all it wasn't expected, second from the moment i am in a relationship with him, we didn't think it was going to take such a long time for everything, people around us seem to get things so quickly (..."i got my papers sorted in a year..." etc), We didn't plan to have children, it just happens like in "normal " families.

Few lawyers told us if we go out of the country to get married they will make it difficult or impossible for him to come back, even though he will be a spouse of EU citizen, that's mean, he can even wait 5 or more years before to gen in the country, what do you think?

[noajthan]

Few lawyers told us if we go out of the country to get married they will make it difficult or impossible for him to come back, even though he will be a spouse of EU citizen, that's mean, he can even wait 5 or more years before to gen in the country, what do you think?

You're talking to the wrong kind of 'lawyers'.

[Casa]

Few lawyers told us if we go out of the country to get married they will make it difficult or impossible for him to come back, even though he will be a spouse of EU citizen, that's mean, he can even wait 5 or more years before to gen in the country, what do you think?

You're talking to the wrong kind of 'lawyers'.

+1 noajthan

[noajthan]

Your best bet may be to leave, marry abroad;
partner can then apply for a FP to come back into UK as the spouse of a Union citizen and regularise himself in that way.
Hubby may apply for an optional RC as a direct family member.

Obviously if Brexit stays on the rails there is no time to acquire permanent residence but it is what it is and you are where you are.

[joolze]

Junior,
IMHO your best bet is to get your kids British Passport and thereafter
download the FLR (FP) form to apply for the FAMILY LIFE AS A PARENT,
10 Year route ('cause of the immigration breach) for your partner.

This has worked for someone I know.

[Casa]

Junior,
IMHO your best bet is to get your kids British Passport and thereafter
download the FLR (FP) form to apply for the FAMILY LIFE AS A PARENT,
10 Year route ('cause of the immigration breach) for your partner.

You could either support her or let her do it on her own.

FLR(FP) under the parent route doesn't apply as the OP and their partner are not living separately.

[joolze]

FLR(FP) under the parent route doesn't apply as the OP and their partner are not living separately.

They could, as even the HO has expressed doubt on their association/relationship, its up to them how they present their case

[Casa]

It would be fatal to lie and claim to be living separately when they are obviously attempting to prove they are a genuine couple. Neither will the forum support the suggestion to submit false evidence in any application.

[noajthan]

FLR(FP) under the parent route doesn't apply as the OP and their partner are not living separately.

They could, as even the HO has expressed doubt on their association/relationship, its up to them how they present their case

With OP having gone as far as filing an appeal at tribunal to make the case for a relationship, HO would obviously smell a rat if an application based on separate lives suddenly materialised.

[Junior15]

I appreciate indeed all your answer.
I will eventually apply for British citizenship in future but only for my own purposes. I know people in my similar situation but with British partners and they've been told from lawyers that HO makes it even more difficult when the partner is British (a kind of "protecting their own people"...), will it be worse for us? I don't know..
I was reading before a gov website about return spontaneously back home, and basically the government can help economically the person, but he could also be banned from UK and it depends from the case for how long.
How could we get married either in mine or his country if they ban him?
Could you please suggest any topic (if ther is one) on this website with people who went abroad to get married and they managed to come back here?
Many thanks for your patience.