Very few Solicitors Know About this Rule?

[Twin]

I have contacted more than 4 legal advisors regarding the Right of Access to A Child rule and none of them so far are aware of this rule despite it been around since 2000. Why?

A solicitor actually advised me that if I leave the country, I should wave goodbye to returning to see my child while another said the best i'd get would be multiple entry visa.

Now, I need to know if indeed this is an accessible visa. Is it so hard to fulfil it's criteria or does it really exist at all? Why do few legal advisors know about it?

Is it too risky to consider? Why is the spouse visa more popular? Why do the advisors advise you to get married to a British or an EU national instead? Is it easier to return under that category? Why forfeit your right to your child?

Can the HO really deny you access to return to the UK to see your child?

[OL7MAX]

FWIW, Twin, I've realised that you can't rely on solicitors' knowledge. You've been doing the right thing in researching it all yourself. Sadly, despite the huge amounts we pay solitictors our interests are best served by prodding them all the time."Why can't I use this ppron method?" or "Why can't I appeal under section xyz?" or "Under what law/section do you believe this deportation order can't be revoked?"

Get them to defend their every position with case laws and proof, make them earn their money.

[Administrator]

.

Do you have a couple of links to websites that describe (legally) what this right is and how to use it?

I think everyone will be interested to read them. Maybe we can find better information if we know which section(s) of the the law to search through.

An interesting thought ... I wonder if European Union law would support or grant this "right."

the Admin

[Twin]

FWIW, Twin, I've realised that you can't rely on solicitors' knowledge. You've been doing the right thing in researching it all yourself. Sadly, despite the huge amounts we pay solitictors our interests are best served by prodding them all the time."Why can't I use this ppron method?" or "Why can't I appeal under section xyz?" or "Under what law/section do you believe this deportation order can't be revoked?"

Get them to defend their every position with case laws and proof, make them earn their money.

OL7MAX, it would just be nice for one's mind to be put at rest. All I wanted to know was if they'd dealt with cases regarding Access Rights. Getting legal advise sort encourage one that one is on the right path.

I have read of a recent success story(check Magata) in this regard but this is where the applicant had current leave and it was an in country application.

I was watching a legal show on Sky where the caller had a similar predicatment to mine and I was waiting for the guest solicitor to suggest the right of access route but she actually went on and said that was no rule in which she could re-gain entry to the UK to see her child. That confused me.

[Twin]

.

Do you have a couple of links to websites that describe (legally) what this right is and how to use it?

I think everyone will be interested to read them. Maybe we can find better information if we know which section(s) of the the law to search through.

An interesting thought ... I wonder if European Union law would support or grant this "right."

the Admin

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... nt%20eight

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/policy ... les/part7/

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary

http://londonelegance.com/transpondia/singleparent/

[Administrator]

.

There are a lot of criteria to meet. Do you meet them all ..?

A solicitor actually advised me that if I leave the country, I should wave goodbye to returning to see my child while another said the best i'd get would be multiple entry visa.

Now, I need to know if indeed this is an accessible visa. Is it so hard to fulfil it's criteria or does it really exist at all? Why do few legal advisors know about it?

Since we don't know every detail of your story, is it possible you are being advised that you personally, in your circumstances, do not or will not meet all the necessary criteria ..?

That's a long list of circumstances, conditions & criteria at this link:

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/policy ... les/part7/

Being allowed to enter to visit your child does not give you any other rights, for one example you would not be legally allowed to work to support yourself. You would have to demonstrate that you can support yourself in another way.

All arrangements for where you live are in place? You have a proper court order ..?

The other thing that comes to mind ... are you seeing a general solicitor, or specialists in immigration law?

Not an attack on you. Just wondering aloud how four solicitors (advisers? practitioners? barristers?) all got it wrong. Even with my distrust in the profession, it makes me suspect they may have been offering advice based upon your ability to use this right, not whether or not they have knowledge of its existance.

the Admin

[sakura]

Twin, remember also the Chen case - as your daughter is a British Citizen, you can apply for residency in another EU/EEA country as the mother/family member of an EU citizen.

Of course I would suggest that you apply for the UK access to a child first, before anything else. But if all else fails, you can use the EEA regulations.

[Twin]

Being allowed to enter to visit your child does not give you any other rights, for one example you would not be legally allowed to work to support yourself. You would have to demonstrate that you can support yourself in another way

Actually, you're wrong as work is allowed as stated here: During the 12 month limited leave visa, the parent is entitled to work http://londonelegance.com/transpondia/singleparent/.

Of course, I would have to prove that in order to gain entry clearance, i can support myself and my child without recourse to public funds.

All arrangements for where you live are in place? You have a proper court order

..?

Yes, there is suitable accomodation and I am in process of going to court to fight for custody.

I was seeing an Immigration Lawyer and it was him who said the most I would get would be multiple entry visa. This baffled me as I don't understand if after meeting the requirements, they would issue me with Multiple entry instead. He didn't seem aware of the rule until I showed him. He would rather we fight the case in country which seem useless to me as the home office takes forever on out of the rules application without a guarantee of success anyway. The first solicitor I approached hadn't heard of the rule.

I didn't say solicitors got it wrong rather that all the solicitors I approached weren't aware of the rule.

Also, however difficult my immigration history might be, I am not a convict and do not have a deportation order. And even if i did have an adverse immigration history, this rule was clearly created with expelled or parents facing expulsion in mind.


[/quote]

[Twin]

Twin, remember also the Chen case - as your daughter is a British Citizen, you can apply for residency in another EU/EEA country as the mother/family member of an EU citizen.

Of course I would suggest that you apply for the UK access to a child first, before anything else. But if all else fails, you can use the EEA regulations.

Hey Sakura, it's been a while. Glad to see you're well.

Thanks for the advise re: EEA but my child lives in the UK and i'm not allowed to take her outside the jurisdiction so that is a no go area for me. However, I want to know more about this Access to a child visa rule before jumping on a flight back home. I don't want to be seperated from my child for too long.

It seems to be a lopsided rule that favours the parent with contact order rather than one with care also. It's a bit discriminative as one of the requirement is for the child to be with his/her parent with care and that parent must have residence.

I am the parent with care without residence. Although there will be remedy if the Judge gives us both Residence but this is unlikely as the court thinks more about the welfare of the child and wouldn't want to inconvenience the child.

The other difficult bit is the maintanance part. How much is enough. Would savings be acceptable and how much savings?

[OL7MAX]

I would have to prove that in order to gain entry clearance, i can support myself and my child without recourse to public funds.

Can you prove that? Bung me a PM if you can't.

[Twin]

2.2 The main points on which the immigration officer needs to be satisfied are that:

À‹ a passenger who wishes to exercise access rights holds a valid entry clearance for this purpose;

À‹ there is no reason to believe that false representations were made in order to obtain the entry clearance or that circumstances have changed since its issue; and

À‹ refusal is not justified on the grounds of restricted returnability, medical grounds, grounds of criminal record, or that the person is the subject of a deportation order or that his exclusion is conducive to the public good.

Can someone please explain in a simpler form, what the emboldenend meas? I am a bit thick.

[vinny]

refusal is not justified on the grounds of restricted returnability, medical grounds, grounds of criminal record, or that the person is the subject of a deportation order or that his exclusion is conducive to the public good.

The above, from 321(iii), just list the grounds on which a person, with entry clearance, may be refused entry.

[Twin]

refusal is not justified on the grounds of restricted returnability, medical grounds, grounds of criminal record, or that the person is the subject of a deportation order or that his exclusion is conducive to the public good.

The above, from 321(iii), just list the grounds on which a person, with entry clearance, may be refused entry.

I understand that but it says refusal is not justified on the grounds of restricted returnability, medical grounds, grounds of criminal record, or that the person is the subject of a deportation order or that his exclusion is conducive to the public good.

I would have expected it to say refusal IS justified rather not NOT??

[Twin]

refusal is not justified on the grounds of restricted returnability, medical grounds, grounds of criminal record, or that the person is the subject of a deportation order or that his exclusion is conducive to the public good.

The above, from 321(iii), just list the grounds on which a person, with entry clearance, may be refused entry.

actually, that paragraph you quoted says: (iii) refusal is justified on grounds of restricted return ability; on medical grounds; on grounds of criminal record; because the person seeking leave to enter is the subject of a deportation order or because exclusion would be conducive to the public good.

while http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary under paragraph 2.2 says NOT justified. Is this just a typo?

[Decus et Tutamen]

It says that the IO has to be satisfied that refusal on those grounds is not justified: i.e. if the IO is not so satisfied, refusal may ensue.

[vinny]

The main points on which the immigration officer needs to be satisfied are that: ...

... refusal is not justified ...

In order words, if refusal is justified, then the Immigration Officer will not be satisfied!

[Twin]

Thanks for clearing that up guys. It seems to easy but hey, some of us interprete things differently

Also, I found this link from a book: http://books.google.com/books?id=g4z14h ... #PPA139,M]
If truly, this rule was created to facilitate contact for parents, including expelled ones, Caseworkers really shouldn't refuse based on general immigration grounds i.e overstaying, illegal entry? Or is that very presumptious of me?

Say I meet all the requirements, can the caseworker still turn round and use the removal clausse for refusal?