Parents visiting - visa refused - how to appeal?

[SerMCG]

Background: mother and father in law wanted to visit us for the beginning of October because we are having a child.

Reasons are several: my wife EEA2 permit has expired in May. The permanent residency application is being processed. She still has the right to live in the UK so they are making a fuss? She can work and live in the UK anyways as long as she doesn't leave the country. Also, I'm British (naturalised recently) and European with full rights to live in the UK. We both work and have full time jobs. (Shared the documents, including marriage certificates, contracts, house ownership, etc, etc.)

We invited them to stay for 5 months. They have 3000 gbp savings they can use for the trip but we also promised we will pay for everything.

They said they don't have ties in China: both retired and own their apartment.

They say in these circumstances they doubt their visit will be genuine and refused!

What's your suggestion (informations, tips, etc) for the appeal?

For me this looks ridiculous. They came here for 3 months in 2010 and everything was fine.

- Should add travelers and cheque in their names?
- Tell them my wife has the right to live and work in the UK by law so her situation is everything but uncertain? Plus I'm also inviting them so what's uncertain about me being British and European and having all the rights to live here and invite my father and mother in law?

[Lucapooka]

You showing more money as their sponsor is not the issue, and furthermore, I suspect that the UKBA fear an extended family application under EU rules once they arrive in the UK. They need to show their financial independence and proof of strong social and economic ties to China.

Owning an apartment and having a regular pension is fine but if they are renting an apartment and have only a meagre pension, have a daughter with a right of residence in the UK under EU rules who supports them, and have a soft option for their own residence in the UK under EU rules, it could be a tricky application and only an appeal at the FTT will overcome this.

[SerMCG]

You showing more money as their sponsor is not the issue, and furthermore, I suspect that the UKBA fear an extended family application under EU rules once they arrive in the UK. They need to show their financial independence and proof of strong social and economic ties to China.

Owning an apartment and having a regular pension is fine but if they are renting an apartment and have only a meagre pension, have a daughter with a right of residence in the UK under EU rules who supports them, and have a soft option for their own residence in the UK under EU rules, it could be a tricky application and only an appeal at the FTT will overcome this.

Thank you.

In fact they own their own apartment. The pension is meagre in British standards. It is more than enough to make a very decent living in the town where they come from. They are basically saying they are poor and that they would come here for economical reasons. That's so wrong. It must be a British official in Beijing thinking with Beijing standards and who has no idea of the different cost of life in different cities.
With the same "pension", house, etc., they were allowed to come to visit us in 2010, same EU rules.

Anyways, the damage is done, they will not be able to join us at the time of birth of our child. What we now want to do is to let them come after the birth, at least.

Can you please help me find out how to appeal? In the decision letter it is not stated clearly. Should we follow these links?
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... o/appeals/
It is vague in terms of where to appeal? Same place in China where we applied? Who should appeal? Myself and my wife or my parents in law?

[Lucapooka]

First you have to find out if there is, indeed, a full right of appeal. If there was nothing in your application to indicate your wife was the partner of a settled resident, there may not have been a right of appeal offered. What is the wording of the refusal notice?

[SerMCG]

Thanks for your help.

We even included a marriage certificate and papers to show I live and work here.

This is the decision letter in almost its entirety.

First you have to find out if there is, indeed, a full right of appeal. If there was nothing in your application to indicate your wife was the partner of a settled resident, there may not have been a right of appeal offered. What is the wording of the refusal notice?

"You intend to visit your daughter and her family in the UK for 160 days along with your spouse"..

.."I have considered your application under paragraph 41"...
Can be found here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... les/part2/

"Any documents supplied have been recorder, it has not been necessary to interview you in order to reach a decision..."

"You are retired and have declared an income of RMB 1731 (approximately £173) per month. You spend RMB 500 per month on your living costs whis is modest even in local terms".

That is not true at all!..

"Against this background you state you have £2000-£3000 GBP available for your trip to the UK, an amount which equates to over your entire year's income. Such a disproportionate spending proposition leads me to doubt your actual motivation for a visit at this time".

"Based on information on your application form, there is no indication of any other family or financial ties in China that may offer you an incentive to leave the UK at the end of your proposed trip."

Not true. They showed the documents showing the full ownership (and no mortgage!) of their apartment where they actually live.

"Whilst this is only one element of your application, I note your daughter's Resident EEA Permit expired on May 2013 and currently she is waiting for a decision from the Home Office on her application for an EEA Permanent Resident card. It is entirely relevant in considering your own application as you are proposing to visit a close family member and stay with her whose own immigration circumstances remains uncertain at this time. Based on available evidence, I'm unclear of your current domestic, social and economic circumstances, and given all of this I'm not satisfied as to your intentions in wishing to travel to the United Kingdom now and your intentions whilst there"

How can this be when we have demonstrated myself and my wife work with permanent contracts? They didn't check the documents we sent?
Moreover, the Home Office confirmed my wife can stay in the UK as long as her EEA2 card has expired, her right to live and work in the UK hasn't. As long as she "doesn't leave the UK soil".

"..This together with our family, social and economic circumnstances lead me to conclude to conclude on the balance of probabilities that the actual motivation of your visit is economic and the purpose of your visit is because it is easier for you and your sponsor to provide each other economic and social support whilst you are in the UK".
What? Hilarious!

"I'm therefore not satisfied that your intentions are that of a genuine visitor and you are genuinely seeking entry for alimited period not exceeding 6 months (paragraph 41(i) of the Immigration Rules). I'm not satisfied that you intend to leave the UK at the end of the period as stated by you (paragraph 41(II)). I'm also not satisfied that you do not intend to live for extended periods in the UK through frequent and successive visits. 41 (ii). "


"Against this background and based on available evidence, I cannot also be satisfied on the balance of probabilities that your circumstances have not changed since the last visa was issued. Given my concerns, I'm not satisfied that you will be able to maintain and accommodate yourself adequately out of resources available to without recourse of to public funds or taking employment or will, with any dependents, be maintained and/or accommodated adequately by relatives or friends who can demonstrate they are able and intend to do so, and are legally present in the United Kingdom, or will be at the time of the visit. 42 (vi) (vii) "

How can this be if we officially declare we will support their stay? I demonstrated I earn to reach the highest taxation tier..and intend to support their stay.

"Your right of appeal is limited to the grounds referred to in section 84(1) (c) of the Nationality Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (www.legislation.gov.uk)."

Here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/41/section/84

"that the decision is unlawful under section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42) (public authority not to act contrary to Human Rights Convention) as being incompatible with the appellant’s Convention rights;"

Is there any ground to appeal? If so, how? What office and process to follow?
If there is not enough ground to appeal, can we reapply and show in even more details our/and my parents in law circumstances?

[Obie]

You may have a full right of appeal.

Is it you parent's first proposed visit.

[vinny]

If not a family visitor or the visit application was made on/after 25 June 2013, then there is only limited rights of appeal.

[SerMCG]

You may have a full right of appeal.

Is it you parent's first proposed visit.

As you can read above, this is not the first visit. It is the second. The first one was made in 2010.

Full right of appeal seems not possible. It is only on human rights ground.

[Obie]

Then pursue it.

[SerMCG]

If not a family visitor or the visit application was made on/after 25 June 2013, then there is only limited rights of appeal.

If you can read my previous posts, it is a family visit.
Correct that it was made after June. Basically we should reapply but the issue is that we still need to add documents or clarify things we already clarified and documents we already added in the application refused..

Here I found something to consider: "
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... ly/appeals

"If your application was refused with a limited right of appeal, you may re-apply at any time (unless the application was refused under general grounds which restricted your return to the UK). You must ensure that the reasons why your previous application was refused are fully addressed, either through written explanation and/or submitting additional documents."

How can I basically fully address the reasons why the application was refused?

- They are too poor to justify 3000 pounds of their own to just travel to the UK (and we wrote we will support them, so it is unlikely they will use their money really..)

- I added the documentation stating my income an savings. From the bank. With details of salary I received each month in the last six months. More than enough to let them stay here for another 3 years.. We only asked 160 days.

- The residence documentation of my wife has expired, indeed mine hasn't! I'm British (recently, added my naturalisation certificate to the application) and it is years since I have residence here.
Moreover, my wife has full right to work and live in the UK even with card expired. -- What can I really add to this point? They should know the law and they should have read the home office paper stating her full rights!

- Cost of living in the area where they come is much lower than where the official comes from. Meaning living expenses are much lower.

Ok, should we provide them with travelers and cheque? 3000 GBP so that they can use as they wish?
+
We commit in taking care of all their expenses + they will be our guests in our apartment? (already in the previous application)


.. how can I challenge the above when all that was needed was already included? Re-apply to find a more kind official who would think the previous one was overzealous?

[Lucapooka]

There is no right of appeal and they need to make a new application. The limited appeal rights mentioned in the refusal notice related to discrimination.

[Nameuser]

I have a similar situation. My wife's mother was refused a family visitor visa (ten-year visa requested, folowing previous 5-year visa) on the grounds that they were not convinced she intended to settle in the UK. The grounds for appeal are limited to Section 6 of the Human Rights Act.

It does not seem to me, as suggested in this thread, that these grounds are limited to facial discrimination. Is interference with family life not also relevant?

Is it better to appeal on the grounds that refusal interferes with her right to visit her daughter and granddaughter, or simply to reapply?

[Nameuser]

Sorry -- meant to say they [UKBA] were not convinced she did not intend to settle in the UK.

[cmsheaky]

Background: mother and father in law wanted to visit us for the beginning of October because we are having a child.

Reasons are several: my wife EEA2 permit has expired in May. The permanent residency application is being processed. She still has the right to live in the UK so they are making a fuss? She can work and live in the UK anyways as long as she doesn't leave the country. Also, I'm British (naturalised recently) and European with full rights to live in the UK. We both work and have full time jobs. (Shared the documents, including marriage certificates, contracts, house ownership, etc, etc.)

We invited them to stay for 5 months. They have 3000 gbp savings they can use for the trip but we also promised we will pay for everything.

They said they don't have ties in China: both retired and own their apartment.

They say in these circumstances they doubt their visit will be genuine and refused!

What's your suggestion (informations, tips, etc) for the appeal?

For me this looks ridiculous. They came here for 3 months in 2010 and everything was fine.

- Should add travelers and cheque in their names?
- Tell them my wife has the right to live and work in the UK by law so her situation is everything but uncertain? Plus I'm also inviting them so what's uncertain about me being British and European and having all the rights to live here and invite my father and mother in law?

Hi what was the outcome of application? I am in similar situation what shall i do ? It is strange people ask questions and then run away and don't share their ending story. This problem is with all of the forums.
Sharing is caring...

[Casa]

This thread is over 3 years old, so it's unreasonable to think that you'll receive a response from a member who hasn't posted on the forum since 2013!