PR Application - less common situation- please advice!

[GabrielaB]

Hi everybody.
I am a EEA citizen and I am planning to apply for a PR after more than 9 years of living and working in the UK.I have no gaps in employment since December 2007 and even if lived on different addresses I have strong evidence for all of them.
Sounds straight forward and simple, but in fact the situation is not that simple and that's why I would be grateful if you could give me some advice.
In July 2007 myself and my children decided to move to the UK as result of me getting married to an Italian citizen living in UK since 1960
My children and I have applied for Registration Certificates, with my husband acting as our sponsor (In 2007 Romania become part of EU, but initially until 2012, Romanian citizens needed to register in order to gain legal right to work and live in the UK). I was granted a Registration Certificates in November 2007 and both my children were granted one in January 2008, (all blue cards) therefore, since then we have exercised our right to live and work in UK without restrictions.
My husband my children and I have lived together as family from July 2007 until March 2009 when we decided to go separate ways, we separated but continued to be friends. We all continued to live and work in UK. Unfortunately, my husband passed away in May 2014 while he was living in UK, at a different address than myself or either of my children.
I know my husband had Permanent Residence in the UK but I have no evidence of it. (I wonder if there is any way to enquire about it and to obtain evidence of his status here )
I hope this clarifies the fact that we were originally granted Registration Certificates (blue cards) in 2007, having my late husband as sponsor and have retained these rights following his death. We have also continued to exercise our rights to live and work in UK as EU citizens as from 1st of January 2014 when all Bulgarian and Romanian nationals were granted the same rights as other EEA nationals; namely to live and work in the UK.
My question is actually which pathway is the best? As a EEA FM retaining the right of residence? (I don't have any other documents of my late husband but still have the original marriage certificate, his death certificate, some copies of his passport but no evidence to show what was his status here.)
Or as key worker as I worked without interruption since December 2007?
Can I apply together with my children even if they are not currently dependent on me (they were when initially moved here)? as some of my evidence relates to them too (places we lived together)
Apologies for the length of my post...
Thank you for any advice.

[noajthan]

You mention "going separate ways"; were you still married (just living apart) or did you actually divorce?
How long were you married (to each other) for?

If still married, you should have acquired PR by 2012 or 2013 based on hubby as sponsor.

If you divorced, look at retained rights, either based on divorce or based on death of sponsor:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

Regarding hubby's status, there is provision under s.40 of UK Borders Act 2007 to encourage HO to seek out information on estranged or departed persons related to an applicant.

Alternately, look at at a composite application, initially sponsored by hubby and then continuing in own right as a qualified person as you are EEA too.

Are children EEA citizens? Their situation probably depends whether you divorced from their step-father or not.

[GabrielaB]

Thank you for your reply noajthan .

My husband and myself went different ways means we separated in March 2009 and in 2012 I actually started the divorce procedures (obtained Decree Nisi) but never applied for Decree Absolute, therefore the divorce has never been completed. He passed away in 2014.
My thinking is... if PR application relates to Registration certificate , yes this has been obtained with the sponsor's help as at that point the Romanian nationals (EU members since 2007) had the right of free movement but no right for work. I wanted to work, not to live on benefits, therefore I applied.
The legislation at that point said you don't need to apply for a permanent residence certificate as you will get it automatically 1 year working after the issue of RC.

I should have had the PR by 2012-2013 but never applied for it as at that point was not compulsory. My passport is of a Romanian citizen with residence in UK. (same for my children) I still have the Registration Certificate (blue card).

Not only because of the Brexit , but generally I think is a matter of respect to apply for Naturalization and Citizenship of a country that you are living in and where you feel like home. But for this you need to prove you are permanently resident...

We've built a life here, bought a house, have steady jobs and have studied hard and been successful and have no intention to move out, unless we are forced to (which would be shame as in fact we've contributed to this society and we feel like we belong here) We meaning myself and my children.(obviously not children anymore...)

So, should I apply as retaining the right of residence (this after separation) as actually we continued to live here, different addresses than the sponsor and we retained this right even after his death.

Is it wise to apply separate from children or send the applications together?

Best regards,
Gabriela
I

[GabrielaB]

and yes, my children are EEA citizens too.

[noajthan]

Thank you for your reply noajthan .

My husband and myself went different ways means we separated in March 2009 and in 2012 I actually started the divorce procedures (obtained Decree Nisi) but never applied for Decree Absolute, therefore the divorce has never been completed. He passed away in 2014.
My thinking is... if PR application relates to Registration certificate , yes this has been obtained with the sponsor's help as at that point the Romanian nationals (EU members since 2007) had the right of free movement but no right for work. I wanted to work, not to live on benefits, therefore I applied.
The legislation at that point said you don't need to apply for a permanent residence certificate as you will get it automatically 1 year working after the issue of RC.

I should have had the PR by 2012-2013 but never applied for it as at that point was not compulsory. My passport is of a Romanian citizen with residence in UK. (same for my children) I still have the Registration Certificate (blue card).

Not only because of the Brexit , but generally I think is a matter of respect to apply for Naturalization and Citizenship of a country that you are living in and where you feel like home. But for this you need to prove you are permanently resident...

We've built a life here, bought a house, have steady jobs and have studied hard and been successful and have no intention to move out, unless we are forced to (which would be shame as in fact we've contributed to this society and we feel like we belong here) We meaning myself and my children.(obviously not children anymore...)

So, should I apply as retaining the right of residence (this after separation) as actually we continued to live here, different addresses than the sponsor and we retained this right even after his death.

Is it wise to apply separate from children or send the applications together?

Best regards,
Gabriela
I

As you did not divorce you should have acquired PR in 2012.
So no need for ROR, shoot directly for confirmation of PR (DCPR)

You need to prove:

• your ids;
  relationships to each other and yours to husband;
  hubby being settled (or exercising treaty rights);

Your activities in UK at that time (2007-21012/13) are actually immaterial (as long as legal ofcourse).

As mentioned HO can be encouraged to dig into sponsor's past status if you have information gaps.

Next steps
Suggest draw up your timeline, assemble all evidence, apply on that basis (for DCPR) together with children.
How old were children in 2012 (were they under 21?)

If husband had been in UK for donkeys years he may have had ILR; check in old passports for any sign of that.
You would also have submitted his id details for previous RC applications so that should help too.

Not sure if your representative (if you have one) may enquire for husband's SAR from UKVI; you could look into that question too:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

[GabrielaB]

My children were older than 21 in 2012. My son was in uni and my daughter about to start her PhD at that point.
I don't have any of my late husband ID's apart of some copies without showing any relevant info about permanent residence but I am sure he had permanent residence, but not British Citizenship as he never applied being too proud of being Italian . I do have the death certificate and the marriage one. We had different residences in the last 5 years before he passed away.
Is the online application a better way? faster?
How the documents could be sent after completing the online form?

Many thanks

[noajthan]

My children were older than 21 in 2012. My son was in uni and my daughter about to start her PhD at that point.
I don't have any of my late husband ID's apart of some copies without showing any relevant info about permanent residence but I am sure he had permanent residence, but not British Citizenship as he never applied being too proud of being Italian . I do have the death certificate and the marriage one. We had different residences in the last 5 years before he passed away.
Is the online application a better way? faster?
How the documents could be sent after completing the online form?

Many thanks

If over 21, children need to prove financial dependency on sponsor then.
Or else apply in own right.

The online form is new so no experience of that.

[GabrielaB]

hi noajthan,
Thank you for your help. May I ask another question. If I won't apply as Retaining right of residence (ROR) in which category should I apply? I know we should have had the permanent Residence granted in 2012 , but as was not compulsory to requested/prove it I never asked for it. Only requested the RC in 2007 to have something to prove my right to take employment (as also did my children) but I was absolutely legal here. At the time (in 2007) many people even in Local councils had no idea Romania was part of EU . I wanted to have something to show that was legal for me to work.Did not come as qualified worker into UK, but obviously wanted to work as soon as I settled here. I am in a category of skilled workers and been in continuous employment since December 2007 to present.
I understand that you think is better to apply with EEA (PR) and maybe add a cover letter, but which category?
Thank you so much.
gabriela

[noajthan]

You may be able to apply in own right or else as dependent.

Assemble your evidebce.
Try completing form.
See how it shapes up.

[GabrielaB]

Hi noajthan,

Thank you for all the answers . I would be grateful if you could clarify another of my confusions, please.

so...

I entered UK with my children (all EU citizens A2) in July 2007 as I got married to a EU citizen permanently settled in UK .I had RC granted being sponsored by my husband and the same did my children. All good so far...

We all obtained blue cards which as proof that we had no restriction to take employment in UK. I have started to work soon after obtaining RC. I would imagine I become qualified subject after one year of employment exercising Treaty rights.

When entered UK, my son was 19 and my daughter was couple of months before her 21st anniversary. Both my children were , as said previously, sponsored to obtain RC (blue card) by my husband. They both enrolled in education and started to study in College and University.

Question is:

Are they also considered qualified persons (in their own rights) after the first year in school? They have exercised Treaty rights themselves . Is that right?

[noajthan]

You don't have to spend a year before treaty rights begin.

Yes, if children are students (with CSI) they are exercising treaty rights in their own right.

[GabrielaB]

In 2007 CSI wasn't necessary.

My son studied in 2007-2009 (A Levels), then worked about half year and was job seeker for a small amount of time, probably 3 months (until 2010) . After he did an accession course (2011) in college and went to uni in 2012 for 3 years. Graduated in 2015 and started in couple of months after to work and he is working at present.

My daughter was in uni 4 years (one year placement) , then worked couple of years in uni, after she started her PhD and will finish next year. no gaps .

[noajthan]

CSI always been required (as per EU law) but just
not enforced (in UK) until 2011.

Anyone applying for confirmation (DCPR) after 2011 (eg now), even for past years, will need to show CSI unless they had already acquired PR.
Or they had an alternative; or can invoke the transitional arrangement; or they were being sponsored by someone else (who was not a student).