EEA with non-EEA spouse, moving from Canada to the UK/EU

[toaster]

Hi, hopefully I'm posting this in the right spot.

I'm a dual Australian-Irish national with an Australian spouse. We're currently in Canada on working holiday visas. We're going to stay in Canada until May 2009, then were planning to head to Europe to travel and work. I was assuming it would be fairly easy for my spouse to be able to work in whatever country we end up in (most likely UK/Ireland), but researching it and having read website upon website, the case doesn't really seem clear if we're both arriving together from outside the EU, with me not having a job or anywhere to live arranged beforehand (and he's too old now for a working holiday visa).

For the UK it seems like the EEA family permit would be the way to go, but: "If they are applying for an EEA family permit from outside the EEA (and are not lawfully resident in an EEA member state), they will also need to meet the requirements in the Immigration Rules for leave to enter the UK."

Does anyone have any insight into this sort of situation? Thanks very much.

[vinny]

If s/he is applying from outside the EEA, then see also EEA Family permit got refused! confusing reasons; gather as much evidence as you can to show that s/he qualifies as a spouse (13.5) and can satisfy the maintenance and accommodation requirements.

[JAJ]

The U.K. does require EEA family permit applicants residing outside the EEA to meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules for spouses (adequate accommodation etc).

There is some debate whether or not this is legal. Fact is, it's the way things are. Some other countries like Ireland and Finland are going further and refusing applications outright where there is no previous residence in another EEA state.

Are you aware that as an Irish citizen you're entitled to sponsor under the U.K. Immigration Rules? One of the advantages is that your spouse could get British permanent resident status after 2 years rather than 5 years which is the case under the EEA rules.

The waiting time for British citizenship would still be 5 years unless you're also a British citizen - eg are you connected with Northern Ireland?

[toaster]

Are you aware that as an Irish citizen you're entitled to sponsor under the U.K. Immigration Rules? One of the advantages is that your spouse could get British permanent resident status after 2 years rather than 5 years which is the case under the EEA rules.

The waiting time for British citizenship would still be 5 years unless you're also a British citizen - eg are you connected with Northern Ireland?

Ah, ok. I'm actually entitled to British citizenship after the following rule change: "All those born overseas to a British mother between 7 February 1961 and 31 December 1982 are now eligible to register as British citizens retroactively." As my mother is a British citizen who was born and grew up in Ireland (to British parents). Last time I checked the fee to register was about $1200, so far I've opted not to take up that option (the cost was a nice deterrent).

(and by the way, spouse is a he)

[JAJ]

Ah, ok. I'm actually entitled to British citizenship after the following rule change: "All those born overseas to a British mother between 7 February 1961 and 31 December 1982 are now eligible to register as British citizens retroactively." As my mother is a British citizen who was born and grew up in Ireland (to British parents). Last time I checked the fee to register was about $1200, so far I've opted not to take up that option (the cost was a nice deterrent).

If your mother was born in the Republic of Ireland (as opposed to Northern Ireland) then as far as I can see you are not eligible for this concession. The reason for this is that your mother is herself a British citizen "by descent", as she was born outside the United Kingdom.

But if you go to the United Kingdom as an Irish citizen, you will be able to apply for British citizenship (after 5 years residence).

In any case, as an Irish citizen you can sponsor under the U.K. Immigration Rules if you prefer. The Entry Clearance manual is clear about this, even though some embassy officials don't know about it.

Whether you should sponsor under the U.K. or EEA rules depends on your choice:

- U.K. rules applications are charged, EEA applications are free (but naturalisation is chargeable either way)
- Permanent residence under U.K. rules after 2 years, only after 5 years on EEA rules
- The rules to get an EEA permit aren't as strict (other than showing a genuine marriage, but this may not apply to applicants from outside the EEA, as discussed above)
- If relationship ends before permanent residence, then there may be more flexibility under the EEA rules.


How long have you both been together and is there any plan to have children born in the United Kingdom?

[toaster]

If your mother was born in the Republic of Ireland (as opposed to Northern Ireland) then as far as I can see you are not eligible for this concession. The reason for this is that your mother is herself a British citizen "by descent", as she was born outside the United Kingdom.

Wow, I had no idea that I wouldn't be eligible. That's good to know.

How long have you both been together and is there any plan to have children born in the United Kingdom?

We could probably prove the relationship dating back to early 2004, when we were first on the lease of a house together. Plans to have children born in the UK? Possibly, it will depend how the next year or two pans out. (And thank you very much for the help clarifying this tangled web of rules and regulations!)

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I'm a dual Australian-Irish national with an Australian spouse. We're currently in Canada on working holiday visas. We're going to stay in Canada until May 2009, then were planning to head to Europe to travel and work. I was assuming it would be fairly easy for my spouse to be able to work in whatever country we end up in (most likely UK/Ireland), but researching it and having read website upon website, the case doesn't really seem clear if we're both arriving together from outside the EU, with me not having a job or anywhere to live arranged beforehand (and he's too old now for a working holiday visa).

It is actually fairly easy to come to Europe in your situation. You can live and work anywhere in the EU, though with slightly different requirements if you want to live in Ireland. Your wife can do the same, as long as you are travelling/living together. You do NOT have to have a job in advance. You do not have to have a particular amount of money. You can travel and then decide to stay somewhere and work for as long as you want.

Note that some countries want you to be resident in another EU state before you arrive, but that is basically an empty requirement (especially in the case of the UK).

Only thing you have to remember is to carry a copy of your marriage certificate in addition to your passports.

[JAJ]

We could probably prove the relationship dating back to early 2004, when we were first on the lease of a house together. Plans to have children born in the UK? Possibly, it will depend how the next year or two pans out. (And thank you very much for the help clarifying this tangled web of rules and regulations!)

If you have children born in the U.K. then as you are an Irish citizen the children will be:

- British by birth (automatically); and
- eligible for registration as Australian citizens by descent; and
- eligible for registration as Irish citizens by descent.

You haven't said whether you plan to apply under the U.K. Immigration Rules or the EEA rules yet. You may wish to clarify this if you want meaningful advice.

One advantage of using the U.K. rules is that when you look to apply for naturalisation as a British citizen (after 5 years in the U.K.) your spouse will be able to apply at the same time, and under current rules, you would only need one fee (GBP575).

If your spouse comes in under EEA rules he will not be eligible for naturalisation until 6 years in the U.K. So you would either have to wait an extra year, or submit two separate applications.

[JAJ]

It is actually fairly easy to come to Europe in your situation. You can live and work anywhere in the EU, though with slightly different requirements if you want to live in Ireland. Your wife can do the same, as long as you are travelling/living together. You do NOT have to have a job in advance. You do not have to have a particular amount of money. You can travel and then decide to stay somewhere and work for as long as you want.

It is generally the smart option to get citizenship in one EEA country before moving around like that.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

It is actually fairly easy to come to Europe in your situation. You can live and work anywhere in the EU, though with slightly different requirements if you want to live in Ireland. Your wife can do the same, as long as you are travelling/living together. You do NOT have to have a job in advance. You do not have to have a particular amount of money. You can travel and then decide to stay somewhere and work for as long as you want.

It is generally the smart option to get citizenship in one EEA country before moving around like that.

Toaster is an Irish national already. I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

[toaster]

You haven't said whether you plan to apply under the U.K. Immigration Rules or the EEA rules yet. You may wish to clarify this if you want meaningful advice.

I'm leaning towards using the EEA rules, but haven't made a decision yet (we probably won't head towards Europe for at least a year). EEA rules seem a good option due to a combination of the lack of fees (we'll have money, but won't be swimming in it) and we're not decided which country we'd like to settle in, or whether we'll end up moving around working and living in a few different countries (as I've spent a lot of time in the UK as a child, but haven't travelled around Europe otherwise, and my spouse hasn't been to Europe as an adult either). Although permanent residency within 2 years would be tempting...

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you initially entered under the European rules, I do not think there would be anything stopping you from leaving the UK briefly, reapplying under the UK rules and then returning.