EEA spousal application - Our Story (Need help!)

[AidoPotato]

Hey Folks

Please excuse me if this is in the wrong place as I am new to this board and am looking for some advice. I am absolutely certain others on here have been through the total ordeal that is the Home Office.

I am Irish, have been married to my U.S wife since 2007 and we moved to London in 2008 to live and work. My wife applied for a temporary 5 year work visa. It took ages, and during this time she was unable to work. She finally got her temp visa and commenced employment.

The temp visa ran out October 2015, and so we applied for a permanent residence card via the EEA member route. The application process is so confusing and ambiguous (or certainly to me) that we ended up sending in sufficient documentation that I had exercised my treaty rights, had been employed for the past 5 years and that we have been living together.

On May 24th 2016 we were sent a rejection letter much to our shock. This resulted in my wife losing her job (she is a Nanny). Since May 2016 we have been living off our savings having had to fork out over £1,000 to an immigration lawyer to help us with the re-application. The Home Office have all of our legal documents and the time frame for being accepted is so vague we are both in dire straits and living on the poverty line. I have tried countless times to obtain employment with zero success rate.

So we have had to take desperate measures by having my wife apply for self employed status while we wait for a permanent residence card, and right to work, however we both fear that the application to the HMRC will be rejected because my wife's National Insurance number may indicate that she has been flagged for not having the right to work in the UK, when we know that our second application will be accepted.

So we're in limbo, we have hardly enough money for food (I am not exaggerating) however my wife has been offered a job starting November 1st within a self employed capacity. We need this so badly but want to know if it's realistic that HMRC will flag her a being illegally self employed. We are expecting our permanent residence cards to be accept cira February 2017, but it's just this limbo stage and lack of information from the Home Office that is completely killing us.

Please, any advice on this matter would be hugely appreciated. It all just seems so unfair and cold.

[ohara]

Welcome

Can you clarify EXACTLY what it is you've applied for at each step? If your wife is on the EEA migration route (which makes sense, as you are an Irish citizen), then she will have a residence card as a family member of an EEA national.

There is no "EEA spousal visa" or "temporary 5 year work permit".

[noajthan]

Welcome.

Moved to appropriate forum (EEA).

[noajthan]

Your dependent's activity in UK is immaterial; for those on EU trajectory it's all about the sponsor (Union citizen).

Treaty rights is not simply about the last 5 years. You may have acquired PR as early as 2013 (depending on what you have been doing in UK).

What is your timeline of activities in UK since 2008

Can you also confirm you are not a dual citizen of anywhere else

[AidoPotato]

Welcome

Can you clarify EXACTLY what it is you've applied for at each step? If your wife is on the EEA migration route (which makes sense, as you are an Irish citizen), then she will have a residence card as a family member of an EEA national.

There is no "EEA spousal visa" or "temporary 5 year work permit".

Yes, apologies, it was the EEA spousal visa that I meant. Sorry just a bit flustered her via frustration.

[ohara]

There is no such thing as an EEA spousal visa

[AidoPotato]

Your dependent's activity in UK is immaterial; for those on EU trajectory it's all about the sponsor (Union citizen).

Treaty rights is not simply about the last 5 years. You may have acquired PR as early as 2013 (depending on what you have been doing in UK).

What is your timeline of activities in UK since 2008

Can you also confirm you are not a dual citizen of anywhere else

Since 2008 I have worked a lot of temp roles. All of this has been sent off to the Home Office via our immigration lawyer, and I have been able to prove that I have exercised my treaty rights via employment. Being completely honest, I've had quite a few jobs / temps, jobs lasting 14 months etc but every portion of time I have been out of work I have been able to cover via job applications and I obtained official documents from the UKBA proving my time line. In fact we sent so much supporting documentation out case load was serious heavy! (lol) - but that was also part of having a very thorough immigration lawyer.

I am not a dual citizen to anywhere else other than my home land, Ireland where I was born. So we are hoping to obtain our PR cards by Feb 2017, as our application went out September, however I am preparing that it might take longer.

My main concern here is wondering whether the HMRC will grant my wife the right to be self employed during a pending application for her PR card; because as it stands right now, the Home Office are unwilling to say whether she can or cannot work; hence limbo

[AidoPotato]

There is no such thing as an EEA spousal visa

God I think I'm losing the plot here......lol

We applied as a family member for an EEA national (me). So I am the sponsor. My wife is from the U.S

[noajthan]

Since 2008 I have worked a lot of temp roles. All of this has been sent off to the Home Office via our immigration lawyer, and I have been able to prove that I have exercised my treaty rights via employment. Being completely honest, I've had quite a few jobs / temps, jobs lasting 14 months etc but every portion of time I have been out of work I have been able to cover via job applications and I obtained official documents from the UKBA proving my time line. In fact we sent so much supporting documentation out case load was serious heavy! (lol) - but that was also part of having a very thorough immigration lawyer.

I am not a dual citizen to anywhere else other than my home land, Ireland where I was born. So we are hoping to obtain our PR cards by Feb 2017, as our application went out September, however I am preparing that it might take longer.

My main concern here is wondering whether the HMRC will grant my wife the right to be self employed during a pending application for her PR card; because as it stands right now, the Home Office are unwilling to say whether she can or cannot work; hence limbo

Being a sole citizen keeps it all simple.

So you may have acquired PR in 2013; did you send adequate documentary supporting evidence since 2008?

If you do have PR (perhaps from as early as 2013) then your current activity (working or not) is immaterial;
no need to exercise treaty rights (eg by working) once you have PR.
So spouse has (should have) a right to work as the dependent of a settled person.

[AidoPotato]

Since 2008 I have worked a lot of temp roles. All of this has been sent off to the Home Office via our immigration lawyer, and I have been able to prove that I have exercised my treaty rights via employment. Being completely honest, I've had quite a few jobs / temps, jobs lasting 14 months etc but every portion of time I have been out of work I have been able to cover via job applications and I obtained official documents from the UKBA proving my time line. In fact we sent so much supporting documentation out case load was serious heavy! (lol) - but that was also part of having a very thorough immigration lawyer.

I am not a dual citizen to anywhere else other than my home land, Ireland where I was born. So we are hoping to obtain our PR cards by Feb 2017, as our application went out September, however I am preparing that it might take longer.

My main concern here is wondering whether the HMRC will grant my wife the right to be self employed during a pending application for her PR card; because as it stands right now, the Home Office are unwilling to say whether she can or cannot work; hence limbo

Being a sole citizen keeps it all simple.

So you may have acquired PR in 2013; did you send adequate documentary supporting evidence since 2008?

If you do have PR (perhaps from as early as 2013) then your current activity (working or not) is immaterial;
no need to exercise treaty rights (eg by working) once you have PR.
So spouse has (should have) a right to work as the dependent of a settled person.

Thank you so much for your reply. You have all been so helpful here

Our initial application for PR was rejected because I didn't send in adequate documentary supporting evidence which is why we have re-applied August / September of this year. The Home Office are telling us that until the application is accepted, they are unwilling to say whether my wife has or has not the right to work, and the family she worked for fired her because they were afraid that they would be find £20k for employing somebody who may not have the right to work.

We were under the impression that a Certificate of Application was enough for my wife to work tentatively until being accepted, but this isn't the case. I thought there used to be a period of grace while the Home Office file your application.

It's all so incredibly confusing and we have had so many conflicting pieces of information from the Home Office. One thing our lawyer was clear on, however, is that my wife doesn't have the right to work whilst we await the outcome of the application.

[noajthan]

Thank you so much for your reply. You have all been so helpful here

Our initial application for PM was rejected because I didn't send in adequate documentary supporting evidence which is why we have re-applied August / September of this year. The Home Office are telling us that until the application is accepted, they are unwilling to say whether my wife has or has not the right to work, and the family she worked for fired her because they were afraid that they would be find £20k for employing somebody who may not have the right to work.

We were under the impression that a Certificate of Application was enough for my wife to work tentatively until being accepted, but this isn't the case. I thought there used to be a period of grace while the Home Office file your application.

It's all so incredibly confusing and we have had so many conflicting pieces of information from the Home Office. One thing our lawyer was clear on, however, is that my wife doesn't have the right to work whilst we await the outcome of the application.

Your lawyer is incorrect or you have misunderstood her.
As long as you have acquired PR (or you are exercising treaty rights) then a direct family member has the right to work.
A COA is enough to confirm this.
(You don't have to possess a DCPR, you just need to have acquired PR).

Just because HO is unwilling to say or to confirm someone has a right to work does not mean they do not have that right.
You have the full weight and power of EU law behind you.

If biometrics have been filed by the applicant then any employer or potential employer can perform an ECS check.
See https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work
and
https://www.gov.uk/employee-immigration ... ent-status

[AidoPotato]

Thank you so much for your reply. You have all been so helpful here

Our initial application for PM was rejected because I didn't send in adequate documentary supporting evidence which is why we have re-applied August / September of this year. The Home Office are telling us that until the application is accepted, they are unwilling to say whether my wife has or has not the right to work, and the family she worked for fired her because they were afraid that they would be find £20k for employing somebody who may not have the right to work.

We were under the impression that a Certificate of Application was enough for my wife to work tentatively until being accepted, but this isn't the case. I thought there used to be a period of grace while the Home Office file your application.

It's all so incredibly confusing and we have had so many conflicting pieces of information from the Home Office. One thing our lawyer was clear on, however, is that my wife doesn't have the right to work whilst we await the outcome of the application.

Your lawyer is incorrect or you have misunderstood her.
As long as you have acquired PR (or you are exercising treaty rights) then a direct family member has the right to work.
A COA is enough to confirm this.
(You don't have to possess a DCPR, you just need to have acquired PR).

Just because HO is unwilling to say or to confirm someone has a right to work does not mean they do not have that right.
You have the full weight and power of EU law behind you.

If biometrics have been filed by the applicant then any employer or potential employer can perform an ECS check.
See https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work
and
https://www.gov.uk/employee-immigration ... ent-status

Wow....

This is startling, and thank you so much again for your help. The amount of conflicting information, but I am sure you guys hear this all the time! Sheessh....

My wife is actually going in tomorrow to submit her biometrics, so you feel that the best bet for us would be for my wife to tell a potential or future employer to do an ECS. I am probably wrong about this but we were led to believe that the ECS check could result in a vague response whether it informs the employer that the case is "pending" and so no further information can be given at this time.

Going by what you are saying, my wife lost a job minding little children over absolutely nothing!

[noajthan]

Wow....

This is startling, and thank you so much again for your help. The amount of conflicting information, but I am sure you guys hear this all the time! Sheessh....

My wife is actually going in tomorrow to submit her biometrics, so you feel that the best bet for us would be for my wife to tell a potential or future employer to do an ECS. I am probably wrong about this but we were led to believe that the ECS check could result in a vague response whether it informs the employer that the case is "pending" and so no further information can be given at this time.

Going by what you are saying, my wife lost a job minding little children over absolutely nothing!

As ever, the devil is in the detail.

The application is not deemed active until biometrics is filed.
Its only valid to perform an ECS after that time. (Obviously leave a few days for information to work through the system).

If an employer follows the ECS procedure then they are in the clear (if they respect the outcome).

More here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... nts_v5.pdf

[AidoPotato]

Wow....

This is startling, and thank you so much again for your help. The amount of conflicting information, but I am sure you guys hear this all the time! Sheessh....

My wife is actually going in tomorrow to submit her biometrics, so you feel that the best bet for us would be for my wife to tell a potential or future employer to do an ECS. I am probably wrong about this but we were led to believe that the ECS check could result in a vague response whether it informs the employer that the case is "pending" and so no further information can be given at this time.

Going by what you are saying, my wife lost a job minding little children over absolutely nothing!

As ever, the devil is in the detail.

The application is not deemed active until biometrics is filed.
Its only valid to perform an ECS after that time. (Obviously leave a few days for information to work through the system).

If an employer follows the ECS procedure then they are in the clear (if they respect the outcome).

More here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... nts_v5.pdf

Even though it is probable that I obtained PR in 2013, we didn't apply for my wife's PR because she still had her temporary permit. It took the home office 1.5 years to issue her a temp permit, so we didn't feel the need to apply for a permanent until that ran out in October 2015. After the PR application was made and rejected due to a lack of supporting documentation, we both realized that I had very little supporting documentation dating back to 2008, so we opted to just re-apply and supplied supporting documentation from 2011 to 2016.

So hopefully that will be enough to give back a positive result on the ECS. I think because we've been fed with so much conflicting information we are afraid of what the ECS will say

[ohara]

You need to correct your terminology to prevent confusing others (and yourself).

An EEA residence card is not a permit and it does not grant any rights. In fact as a direct family member, your wife automatically has the right to work as long as you are either exercising treaty rights or settled yourself. She does not need any documentation or "permit" to confer these rights; they are automatic under EU law. Obviously, proving her right to work is the difficult part and that's why the residence card exists.

It's not "temporary" either - the expiry date on the card is only for the card itself. Once the card expires, you simply renew it (or apply for permanent residence if eligible).

[AidoPotato]

You need to correct your terminology to prevent confusing others (and yourself).

An EEA residence card is not a permit and it does not grant any rights. In fact as a direct family member, your wife automatically has the right to work as long as you are either exercising treaty rights or settled yourself. She does not need any documentation or "permit" to confer these rights; they are automatic under EU law. Obviously, proving her right to work is the difficult part and that's why the residence card exists.

It's not "temporary" either - the expiry date on the card is only for the card itself. Once the card expires, you simply renew it (or apply for permanent residence if eligible).

Gotcha! Apologies and sorry for any confusion

[AidoPotato]

As ever, the devil is in the detail.

The application is not deemed active until biometrics is filed.
Its only valid to perform an ECS after that time. (Obviously leave a few days for information to work through the system).

If an employer follows the ECS procedure then they are in the clear (if they respect the outcome).

More here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... nts_v5.pdf

Ok....so biometrics were done this morning

Is it possible for us to check in 2 - 3 days time via the ECS to see where my wife stands? In my previous company we used to conduct ECS checks as agents on behalf of candidates who were being screening prior to job offers, so I understand the process. It normally takes about 5 days to get a response via email. I am just wondering if we would be allowed do it just for peace of mind in knowing where we stand? She's been offered the job pending references.

[AidoPotato]

ECS came back today. It's over. We got the Green with no restrictions!

I am actually crying typing this.

I could not have done this, nor understood clearly how this all works without this board and I want to say I am so grateful. My wife is not home until 4pm and I told her to buy wine. I didn't give anything away, but she is going to collapse when she sees the PDF I have printed that we got from the Home Office.

Thank you ImmigrationsBoards.....thank you thank you thank you

[noajthan]

Wonderful news. Glad you made it.

[AidoPotato]

Wonderful news. Glad you made it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgnIb5YW8J4

Dancing to this right now

[AidoPotato]

Wonderful news. Glad you made it.

Thank you so much noajthan for all your help. Sheesh...more people need to read these boards. It cuts out so much crap

[ohara]

Congratulations. Hopefully a few years down the line, citizenship may be in the pipeline (and believe me, it's a good feeling when you get handed that certificate)

[AidoPotato]

Congratulations. Hopefully a few years down the line, citizenship may be in the pipeline (and believe me, it's a good feeling when you get handed that certificate)

Amen!

Lawyer just got in touch to say she has received the certificate of application that clearly states my wife has the right to work in the UK. She will be posting it this evening.

Time to PARTAY like it's nineteen ninety nine!