When can I apply after obtaining EEA(PR)

[ponch10]

However the Booklet AN, page 10, says:

But remember that, unless you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you
should normally have held permanent resident status for 12 months before applying for
naturalisation. This means that you may need to wait until you have been in the United
Kingdom for 6 years before you can apply. When you apply for a permanent residence
document the evidence that you supply for your EEA(PR) application must be for a 5 year
period that ended at least a year before you want to apply for citizenship.

They seem to state it pretty clear that you had to supply 6 years of history with EEA(PR) if you want to apply with AN immediately. This is sufficient grounds for a refusal, unless the application is strong enough on itself?

Applying for DCPR is nothing to do with naturalising.
The two sets of requirements are not merged into the PR application.

It simply means you cannot naturalise 'now' unless you acquired PR (over) a year ago (unless married to British spouse).
It is a kind of restatement of section 6(1) of BNA requirements in an EU context.

So to apply to naturalise 'now' your UK immigration journey needs to have started at least 6 years ago.
And you say yours started in 2005.

Someone who came to UUK in 2011 and acquires PR only now would have to wait a year before naturalising (if no BC spouse).
That is not the case for you.

Ok, totally agree on everything you said. My question is now simply the following: What documents does HO need with form AN, to assess that my immigration journey started in 2006, and hence I have been restriction free for several years now?

[MrsT]

I just hope that the case workers at the HO know more than the guy(s) at NCS and the helplines.

I was also told by the NCS that I had to wait 12 months between receipt of the Permanent Residence Card and application for Citizenship. Not only am I an EEA national who is married to a British citizen, I have been here since 2006 and have exercised my treaty rights throughout this time.

[noajthan]

Ok, totally agree on everything you said. My question is now simply the following: What documents does HO need with form AN, to assess that my immigration journey started in 2006, and hence I have been restriction free for several years now?

If NCS check and/or SAR shows date of acquisition 'back in the day' you can simply submit DCPR vis a vis settled status.
Because the internal checks show accurate data.
- assuming you submitted PR evidence from, say, 2005+ in PR confirmation application.

However its not guaranteed that HO records are correct (sloppy caseworkers; typos). There have been a couple of such instances reported.
In that case, you may have to submit all your PR-related evidence again to counter the misleading and faulty date.
Or you may face a refusal and have to fight it.
- that has happened too.

[noajthan]

I just hope that the case workers at the HO know more than the guy(s) at NCS and the helplines.

I was also told by the NCS that I had to wait 12 months between receipt of the Permanent Residence Card and application for Citizenship. Not only am I an EEA national who is married to a British citizen, I have been here since 2006 and have exercised my treaty rights throughout this time.

@ponch:
When I applied via NCS I brought employment letters dating back to 2006. These letters are enough to provide proof for the treaty rights.

NCS are simply admin staff.
And this DCPR change for naturalisation was poorly thought out with minimal fanfare, misleading guidance material (initially) and minimal training across the board.
Look back in forum for related tales of woe.
Some senior members were instrumental in getting HO to up their game on this.

[MrsT]

NCS are simply admin staff.
And this DCPR change for naturalisation was poorly thought out with minimal fanfare, misleading guidance material (initially) and minimal training across the board.
Look back in forum for related tales of woe.
Some senior members were instrumental in getting HO to up their game on this.

The registrar at my locals NCS repeatedly mentioned that these changes were "fairly new" and that they are not being informed on time about new changes, or upcoming changes. I do hope that they sort themselves out soon.

[ponch10]

I just hope that the case workers at the HO know more than the guy(s) at NCS and the helplines.

I was also told by the NCS that I had to wait 12 months between receipt of the Permanent Residence Card and application for Citizenship. Not only am I an EEA national who is married to a British citizen, I have been here since 2006 and have exercised my treaty rights throughout this time.

@ponch:
When I applied via NCS I brought employment letters dating back to 2006. These letters are enough to provide proof for the treaty rights.

NCS are simply admin staff.
And this DCPR change for naturalisation was poorly thought out with minimal fanfare, misleading guidance material (initially) and minimal training across the board.
Look back in forum for related tales of woe.
Some senior members were instrumental in getting HO to up their game on this.

noajthan, you seem to be a moderator, can you please enable my profile for PMs ?

[noajthan]

noajthan, you seem to be a moderator, can you please enable my profile for PMs ?

I've replied to that request already. See other post.

[johnkk]

I arrived in the uk in 2006. Being employed full time, effectively I acquired PR status in 2011 (5 years of work in the UK). I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years) and I received a PR card in September 2016. So at this point, HO knows that I have been in the UK for 10 years, but only has info for the past 5.

I submitted a SAR, and pretty quickly I have been replied that PR status date is the date shown on the PR card! I expect NCS to get the same response.

Thoughts?

Since you submitted documents ONLY for the 5y period between 2011-2016, you effectively told the Home Office "Please consider these 5 years as my '5 year qualifying period'.
I think the HO is right to grant you PR status on the completion of the 5 qualifying years that you provided information for, which end in September 2016.

Thus, you have two options:
1. (simple) wait one more year before submitting for naturalisation or
2. (tedious) try to get your case re-examined from scratch. To get your status confirmed as having gained PR earlier, you will need to provide all documentation for 2006-2011 or 2007-2012 or any other past continuous 5 year period, proving qualifying {worker/student/self-sufficient/etc} status for each one of those years.
In your case, and provided that HO caseworkers somehow agree to this, you should be able to just provide additional information for the May 2010-May 2011 period and get your PR status changed to have been granted one year earlier - allowing you to proceed with naturalisation straight away.

[ponch10]

I arrived in the uk in 2006. Being employed full time, effectively I acquired PR status in 2011 (5 years of work in the UK). I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years) and I received a PR card in September 2016. So at this point, HO knows that I have been in the UK for 10 years, but only has info for the past 5.

I submitted a SAR, and pretty quickly I have been replied that PR status date is the date shown on the PR card! I expect NCS to get the same response.

Thoughts?

Since you submitted documents ONLY for the 5y period between 2011-2016, those were your 'qualifying years' for the Home Office. I think the HO is right to grant you PR status on the completion of the 5 qualifying years that they have information for, which end in September 2016.

Thus, you'll need to wait one more year before submitting for naturalisation or get your case re-examined from scratch. To get your status confirmed as having gained PR earlier, you will need to provide all documentation for 2006-2009 or any other past continuous 5y period, proving qualifying {worker/student/self-sufficient/etc} status for each of those years.

As things are, shouldn't I have PR status since at least March 2016? Remember that HO holds supporting documents for my case since March 2011.

[MrsT]

Following John's suggestions, would it not be possible to obtain employment letters dating back to 2006. That's what I did. I only had three employers over the last 10 years though so it was not much of a hassle. Don't know what it'd be like for you as I don't know your circumstances.

[johnkk]

I arrived in the uk in 2006. Being employed full time, effectively I acquired PR status in 2011 (5 years of work in the UK). I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years) and I received a PR card in September 2016. So at this point, HO knows that I have been in the UK for 10 years, but only has info for the past 5.

I submitted a SAR, and pretty quickly I have been replied that PR status date is the date shown on the PR card! I expect NCS to get the same response.

Thoughts?

Since you submitted documents ONLY for the 5y period between 2011-2016, those were your 'qualifying years' for the Home Office. I think the HO is right to grant you PR status on the completion of the 5 qualifying years that they have information for, which end in September 2016.

Thus, you'll need to wait one more year before submitting for naturalisation or get your case re-examined from scratch. To get your status confirmed as having gained PR earlier, you will need to provide all documentation for 2006-2009 or any other past continuous 5y period, proving qualifying {worker/student/self-sufficient/etc} status for each of those years.

As things are, shouldn't I have PR status since at least March 2016? Remember that HO holds supporting documents for my case since March 2011.

That is correct, missed that. You should have been granted PR status March 2016, with the card issued later. If your actual grant date is later than March 2016 then there must be some clerical error that needs to be chased.

In your SAR reply, did you get the CID information page documenting the grant date, or just a reply from a clerk? E.g. something like this:

[ponch10]

for johnkk:
I just got a reply, not like what you attached, simply stating that the date I got PR is the issue date on the PR Card I attached with the SAR. No further information as your picture. I did ask for PR date, not which docs they hold under my name though (not sure if that makes any difference).

[ponch10]

Following John's suggestions, would it not be possible to obtain employment letters dating back to 2006. That's what I did. I only had three employers over the last 10 years though so it was not much of a hassle. Don't know what it'd be like for you as I don't know your circumstances.

Better than that, I can actually provide tax information for the past 10 years. My question is, can I send that with Form AN, and override what they have on file already?

[noajthan]

I arrived in the uk in 2006. Being employed full time, effectively I acquired PR status in 2011 (5 years of work in the UK). I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years) and I received a PR card in September 2016. So at this point, HO knows that I have been in the UK for 10 years, but only has info for the past 5.

I submitted a SAR, and pretty quickly I have been replied that PR status date is the date shown on the PR card! I expect NCS to get the same response.

Thoughts?

This is where you have gone wrong:

I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years)

You should have supplied rock-solid documentary supporting evidence of treaty rights and residence/absences back to 2005.
And of residence (plus absences within prescribed limits) since 2010 to date.

[ponch10]

I arrived in the uk in 2006. Being employed full time, effectively I acquired PR status in 2011 (5 years of work in the UK). I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years) and I received a PR card in September 2016. So at this point, HO knows that I have been in the UK for 10 years, but only has info for the past 5.

I submitted a SAR, and pretty quickly I have been replied that PR status date is the date shown on the PR card! I expect NCS to get the same response.

Thoughts?

This is where you have gone wrong:

I applied for PR card in May 2016 supplying info (bills, payslips and so on) back to March 2011 (past 5 years)

You should have supplied rock-solid documentary supporting evidence of treaty rights and residence/absences back to 2005.
And of residence (plus absences within prescribed limits) since 2010 to date.

Further supporting evidence supplied with Form AN wouldn't count?
What you say makes sense, however according to you I should be able to apply as soon as March 2017, since I provided HO with supporting evidence starting March 2011.

[noajthan]

Further supporting evidence supplied with Form AN wouldn't count?
What you say makes sense, however according to you I should be able to apply as soon as March 2017, since I provided HO with supporting evidence starting March 2011.

You are in uncharted territory since HO has changed the requirements.

I suspect you would have had enough of a struggle to correct any HO mistake.
Its probably too much too expect you can correct (at naturalisation stage) your oversight in applying for DCPR using a later period when you had an earlier period to use.

If no British spouse then yes, count 12 months from date of acquisition.
Fortunately UK should still be in EU so you have just delayed yourself, no other harm done.

Good example of why applicant should try to answer the questions as asked (and provide full timeline of activities in UK) rather than trying to make a 'good' or 'convenient' application.
(That is, unless your earlier evidence wouldn't have been good enough).

[johnkk]

for johnkk:
I just got a reply, not like what you attached, simply stating that the date I got PR is the issue date on the PR Card I attached with the SAR. No further information as your picture. I did ask for PR date, not which docs they hold under my name though (not sure if that makes any difference).

It may well be the case that the clerk answering the SAR request is also missing context and information about what the 'PR grant date' actually is. You have a few options:

1) Submit another SAR where you request the actual files the caseworker created for your DCPR application in the CID database (like the document in the image above).

2) In March 2017, book an appointment with NCS to submit Form AN and during the appointment have the NCS clerk call HO and verify the PR grant date.

3) Submit for DCPR again, this time providing evidence for qualifying status prior to 2011. This only after prior communication with the HO, as this is uncharted territory as noajthan says.

[ponch10]

for johnkk:
I just got a reply, not like what you attached, simply stating that the date I got PR is the issue date on the PR Card I attached with the SAR. No further information as your picture. I did ask for PR date, not which docs they hold under my name though (not sure if that makes any difference).

It may well be the case that the clerk answering the SAR request is also missing context and information about what the 'PR grant date' actually is. You have a few options:

1) Submit another SAR where you request the actual files the caseworker created for your DCPR application in the CID database (like the document in the image above).

2) In March 2017, book an appointment with NCS to submit Form AN and during the appointment have the NCS clerk call HO and verify the PR grant date.

3) Submit for DCPR again, this time providing evidence for qualifying status prior to 2011.

Can't I contact HO directly myself (not the phone clerks at UKVI)? Is SAR the only option in these regards?

[ponch10]

Further supporting evidence supplied with Form AN wouldn't count?
What you say makes sense, however according to you I should be able to apply as soon as March 2017, since I provided HO with supporting evidence starting March 2011.

You are in uncharted territory since HO has changed the requirements.

I suspect you would have had enough of a struggle to correct any HO mistake.
Its probably too much too expect you can correct (at naturalisation stage) your oversight in applying for DCPR using a later period when you had an earlier period to use.

If no British spouse then yes, count 12 months from date of acquisition.
Fortunately UK should still be in EU so you have just delayed yourself, no other harm done.

Good example of why applicant should try to answer the questions as asked (and provide full timeline of activities in UK) rather than trying to make a 'good' or 'convenient' application.
(That is, unless your earlier evidence wouldn't have been good enough).

Prior submitting my PR application I checked this forum and I understood that HO would have considered only the past 5 years anyway. Since it is a real pain to get more info further back in time, I decided to provide what was clearly requested. As things are now, the only document of PR in my possession states September 2016 - regardless of how far back I went with supporting docs.

[noajthan]

Prior submitting my PR application I checked this forum and I understood that HO would have considered only the past 5 years anyway. Since it is a real pain to get more info further back in time, I decided to provide what was clearly requested. As things are now, the only document of PR in my possession states September 2016 - regardless of how far back I went with supporting docs.

Possibly a misunderstanding or someone else's other post taken out of context.
Certainly not advice I would offer.

[ponch10]

Prior submitting my PR application I checked this forum and I understood that HO would have considered only the past 5 years anyway. Since it is a real pain to get more info further back in time, I decided to provide what was clearly requested. As things are now, the only document of PR in my possession states September 2016 - regardless of how far back I went with supporting docs.

Possibly a misunderstanding or someone else's other post taken out of context.
Certainly not advice I would offer.

As far as I remember it was being referred to a similar situation as mine. Supporting docs provided for several years back, but then PR card with today's date. All the reasoning we made so far re dates makes sense, however HO seems to value the PR card issue date and I have yet to read a suggestion on how to practically get around it. The UKVI helpline is surely confusing, but since £1200 is on the line here I would rather have a 100% clear line of action before making any move.

[noajthan]

As far as I remember it was being referred to a similar situation as mine. Supporting docs provided for several years back, but then PR card with today's date. All the reasoning we made so far re dates makes sense, however HO seems to value the PR card issue date and I have yet to read a suggestion on how to practically get around it. The UKVI helpline is surely confusing, but since £1200 is on the line here I would rather have a 100% clear line of action before making any move.

You may be too late to get round it as you applied for an inappropriate period despite having further (earlier) evidence.
Its a grey area for HO with no guidance available on this.

Having just put in place a process predicated on having DCPR/PRC they are unlikely to accept a corrective PR application made 'on the fly' as part of a naturalisation process.

Remember HO and NCS are the ones still having trouble getting this right even in the most clearcut cases.

[ponch10]

As far as I remember it was being referred to a similar situation as mine. Supporting docs provided for several years back, but then PR card with today's date. All the reasoning we made so far re dates makes sense, however HO seems to value the PR card issue date and I have yet to read a suggestion on how to practically get around it. The UKVI helpline is surely confusing, but since £1200 is on the line here I would rather have a 100% clear line of action before making any move.

You may be too late to get round it as you applied for an inappropriate period despite having further (earlier) evidence.
Its a grey area for HO with no guidance available on this.

Having just put in place a process predicated on having DCPR/PRC they are unlikely to accept a corrective PR application made 'on the fly' as part of a naturalisation process.

Remember HO and NCS are the ones still having trouble getting this right even in the most clearcut cases.

OK Thanks.
I am OK waiting for a year if I have to, but for what I read it is a grey area and it might not be necessary to wait that long.

Is a SAR the best way to understand what they have on file?

[noajthan]

OK Thanks.
I am OK waiting for a year if I have to, but for what I read it is a grey area and it might not be necessary to wait that long.

Is a SAR the best way to understand what they have on file?

Yes, a SAR or else a naturalisation appointment at NCS.

[ponch10]

OK Thanks.
I am OK waiting for a year if I have to, but for what I read it is a grey area and it might not be necessary to wait that long.

Is a SAR the best way to understand what they have on file?

Yes, a SAR or else a naturalisation appointment at NCS.

so you say: get the application ready anyway, get an appointment at NCS and if they say I am not good yet, just go home and with £60 less but clearer ideas?