PR for EEA member&spouse - apply at the same or separately

[Ken1234]

Hello, this forum looks really useful so I thought I register and ask a few questions, hope you can help....

I have been in the UK since 2002 and just about to get round to apply for permanent residence.

It is still not a straightforward case the reason being me (wife) not having worked continuously for 5 years (having children, husband working etc). I am an EEA member and husband is not. He has a EEA 5 year residence card, which expired in the summer.

I am wondering which is the better / less stressful way of applying.

Shall we apply all together, me and him and all children

or

shall I apply myself as I have heard the decision is quicker for EEA members, so we could find out sooner whether or not I can get it and once it is done we could apply for the rest of the family.

What do you think?

Oh I have also heard that if you send all applications at the same time and one is not eligible then all the other applications will be refused automatically.

Thank you, it would be really helpful to find out more.

[ohara]

You could 'test the water' so to speak by applying alone first. It is correct that applications from EEA nationals are processed substantially faster than non-EEA. You're looking at 2-3 months rather than 6.

[Ken1234]

Very kind of you to reply, thank you.

[Ken1234]

Hello, so page 47 9.4 reads: list EEA national`s activity since arrival.

Do we really need to do that? I have been here for 15 years, some years I did not even know I needed to `exercise my treaty rights`, I was working hard but not paid employment, I had 5 children and illnesses, some paid and voluntary work, short courses etc, husband worked mainly.... can not understand why is it relevant...

What do you think?

[noajthan]

Notice there is no question asking 'when is your qualifying period?'.
And how would you know?!

Caseworker will figure it out to see if she can confirm your PR based on the info and evidence provided.
Hence the questions in the form.

[Ken1234]

Hello, p47 Section 9 A 9.4 states.... starting from when you entered the country..

Why not just the last 5 years? I really do not want to list it as I was mainly a stay at home mum etc.

I arrived 15 years ago... Can I just ignore the first 10 years and only write about the last 5?

[Ken1234]

I did not have continous 5 years of `exercising my treaty rights` so we are only applying now, would that cause any problem? I assume he is not allowed to work or does he? He is self-employed and he did work until we realised that maybe he should not (?)

[Ken1234]

Sorry for many questions.... Appreciate all advice.

[Ken1234]

I finally have my 5 years but as a mum of 5 my income etc cannot be compared to a single person, would Home Office consider this circumstance? Shall I mention it in the cover letter.. well they will see all birth certificates etc... I have been working so hard but it is not a paid work is it so how does Home Office look at it.... anyone in similar situation ?

[noajthan]

I finally have my 5 years but as a mum of 5 my income etc cannot be compared to a single person, would Home Office consider this circumstance? Shall I mention it in the cover letter.. well they will see all birth certificates etc... I have been working so hard but it is not a paid work is it so how does Home Office look at it.... anyone in similar situation ?

What is the outline of your timeline and activities in UK?
Do you have a potential EEA spouse/sponsor too?

[noajthan]

Sorry for many questions.... Appreciate all advice.

Posts merged.
No need for multiple posts.

[secret.simon]

Are you an EEA citizen? Are you married to an EEA citizen? What are your the nationalities and those of your spouse/partner? Are you married or living in a durable relationship of at least two years together?

[noajthan]

Hello, p47 Section 9 A 9.4 states.... starting from when you entered the country..

Why not just the last 5 years? I really do not want to list it as I was mainly a stay at home mum etc.

I arrived 15 years ago... Can I just ignore the first 10 years and only write about the last 5?

If you entered UK 15 years ago do not suppress a material fact.
Read Declaration you need to sign on the form.

There is no question: 'what is your qualifying petiod'.
How would you know?

The caseworker assesses your info and evidence to decide if she can confirm you have acquired PR.
Just give the necessary info/evidence to let her do her job.

[noajthan]

Posts merged.
No need for multiple posts.

[Ken1234]

OK, sorry. I thought as it is a separate question it is better to start a new topic.

[Ken1234]

Yes, I am European and husband is non-EEA.

Entered UK in 2002, we met in my country and been living together since 2001. Religious marriage in 2002, marriage in Register Office in 2009. Have 5 children, first one born in 2004, last one in 2013. Husband got 5 year spouse visa in 2011. It expired July this year.

I have been working whenever I could, as a self-employed Maths tutor, then started an online business only this February. Income was quite low, he was the main bread-winner.

We have seen a few solicitors in the last couple of years, and so far we were advised to wait until our case is `stronger`. I have been paying voluntary class 2 NI contribution since 2008. Last 5 years I have been exercising my treaty rights without significant gaps: self-employment with 2 pregnancies and maternity allowance following them. Income is really about 50-100.00 pounds per week on average, some weeks 0. Since starting the online business, income is better, over 100.00-150.00 average. Some weeks none but some weeks even 200.00 or 500.00. Hardly ever been out of UK since I arrived.

Thank you for pointing out that they never actually ask us to identify the qualifying period, that is really useful.

I am just summarising the first 10 years with only a few documents to support, to be honest I did not always exercise my treaty right during that period, with little children and no family as I mentioned husband had been working when he was finally allowed.

Is it a good idea? Shall I write a cover letter and that to emphasise? I have done some volunteering, too and some online courses, any point mentioning those?

What do you think I should do to make sure application will be successful and again is it a problem that my husband`s visa had expired last summer?

Thank you very much in advance.

[secret.simon]

First of all, you misunderstand how EU law works and how it is different from UK law.

Status granted by EU law is automatic. If you meet certain conditions laid by the law, you have the relevant status. If you fail even a single condition, you do not have it. The status is granted by the law itself, not by the Home Office and hence the Home Office has no discretion to be more "forgiving" or more "understanding".

Think of it as a tick box binary exercise.
Meet all requirements - The winner takes it all
Fail a single requirement - The loser has to fall.

So, what are the requirements for PR?
For PR, the EEA citizen needs to have exercised certain specific rights for a period of five continuous years.
-Working - Self-employment is fine. The work must be "genuine and effective" and not "marginal and ancillary". There is no definition of "genuine and effective", but "marginal and ancillary" can be understood to mean that if the income from that employment is lost, there is no perceptible change in your lifestyle.
-Job seeking - You need proof of job seeking and it is limited to six months.
Maternity leave counts as working provided you were a worker or a job-seeker when your maternity leave (starting from 11 weeks before due date till a maximum of 52 weeks after childbirth) started and when it ended.
-Studying - You are required to hold either Comprehensive Sickness Insurance or a non-UK EHIC card for this period
- Self-sufficient - You are required to hold Comprehensive Sickness Insurance covering your entire non-EEA family

Note the stress on continuous exercise of treaty rights. That means that if you stop, the clock is reset back to zero.

So, now with these details, can you go over your history and see if you have acquired PR automatically?

[noajthan]

And bear in mind that, above and beyond the cleaner, purer EU law so eloquently summarised by Simon (above), UK HO now applies its somewhat controversial domestic PET/MET tests even to those on EU migration route.
This helps caseworker assess and weigh your case and decide if she agrees she can confirm that you have acquired the holy grail of PR status.

[Ken1234]

Thank you both for replying. Yes I am aware that to acquire the status I need to have 5 continuous years of exercising my rights, this is the reason we had to wait that long and it is now when I will be applying.

When I referred to the HO to be more understanding, I did not mean that I have any gap and they should somehow overlook it I do not have gaps....

but I meant if they would be understanding about my income as self-employed, and whether they would consider that if the EEA member is a married *woman* who has children (and the non-EEA husband is the main bread-winner) her income would probably be less compared to a EEA *man*.

I am implying that the EEA husband - non-EEA wife and the EEA wife and non-EEA husband setup is not the same because of the difference in the (traditional) roles of women and men in general.

I hope I managed to explain it clearly.

[Ken1234]

Hello, not sure I should add this to the thread with my other question or I should post it as a new topic but as it is a new and general question I started a new topic....

I may be just confusing myself but with sections like Section 5 where it says;

If you are inlcluding any family member in this application...... make a copy for each family member and enclose it, etc.
I am sending my husband`s and 3 of my children`s application with mine. I am the EEA member. So:

1. Do I make a separate 4 full copy of the section, complete it then attach it after my own section 5.

OR

2. I just make sure I include it with their own application.

OR

3. Do I do both??

Bit confused, please help.

[noajthan]

Posts merged.

[noajthan]

Hello, not sure I should add this to the thread with my other question or I should post it as a new topic but as it is a new and general question I started a new topic....

I may be just confusing myself but with sections like Section 5 where it says;

If you are inlcluding any family member in this application...... make a copy for each family member and enclose it, etc.
I am sending my husband`s and 3 of my children`s application with mine. I am the EEA member. So:

1. Do I make a separate 4 full copy of the section, complete it then attach it after my own section 5.

OR

2. I just make sure I include it with their own application.

OR

3. Do I do both??

Bit confused, please help.

If submitting 'one combined form' print a section for each FM and include same (one per FM).

[Ken1234]

Ok so do I post all my questions here?

I am just thinking if someone has a problem with this particular section they may find it easier to find an answer and similarly those who could answer my question may not find it if it is posted under a completely different topic title (?)

Sorry I have been been on this forum very long so not familiar with how it works...

[Ken1234]

Thank you very very much, I really appreciate your quick reply, so just to clarify:

I complete my form and then 4 separate forms with necessary sections including front page and pages before section 1 ? Sorry for many questions.

So I DO or DO NOT include duplicate sections in my form if it is enclosed with the separate applications?

[noajthan]

Thank you very very much, I really appreciate your quick reply, so just to clarify:

I complete my form and then 4 separate forms with necessary sections including front page and pages before section 1 ? Sorry for many questions.

So I DO or DO NOT include duplicate sections in my form if it is enclosed with the separate applications?

If 4 people are applying separately then use 4 forms.

If 4 people are applying on 1 form then add in the additional sections for the 3 FMs.