What to do with Permanent Residence, after naturalisation?

[Vande-Matram]

Greetings

I applied for Naturalisation to be registered as a British Citizen, which has been approved, I was on EU route, non-EEA Permanent Residence, sticker on my passport.

Please help me, I wished to know, if the sticker will be valid after taking the oath and receiving the certificate of registration as British Citizen.

Question arises because I want to travel out of UK for Xmas and after taking the oath, which would be next month 15th Dec, I do not think I will have sufficient time to receive the British Passport. So I needed to know if the existing non-EEA PR is sufficient to re-enter the UK.

Thank you to anyone who can shed light on my dilemma and even others who cant

[alterhase58]

Once you are British Citizen all other prior arrangements (UK PR / ILR / Visa / etc) are terminated automatically, whether you have a British passport or not. If you have retained your other non-EEA nationality you can perhaps travel out with your old Passport and carry your naturalisation certificate and present this when re-entering the UK - expect some questioning though.
I am not familiar with the subject, only with what I have gathered reading posts on here.

[noajthan]

Interestingly, PR status, being an EU construct, does not terminate or become invalid just because someone happens to naturalise.
On the other hand, ILR, being a purely UK attribute, does.

[Vande-Matram]

So non-EEA PR sticker in the passport is still valid to travel into the UK?

And is it so the case with EEA-PR certificate, is it valid as well?

I think it should be valid as it is just a Certificate and not a Visa or a travel document.

But you expert people can shed some light?

They clearly state that ILR-BRP cards are invalid and should be torn after attaining British Citizenship but no instructions on EEA-(non-EEA)PR certificate.

Is there any Home Office guidelines on .GOV website, on this issue, or anywhere else I can look at this?

[secret.simon]

You can keep the PR card/certificate.

Your rights as a UK citizen supercede your PR within the UK and of course, at the moment also grant you Union citizenship across the EU(as opposed to the more mediate freedom of movement as a family member of an EEA citizen).

ILR cards are issued under UK law and hence the Home Office can advice, nay require, you to destroy it after naturalisation, even though they have made a dog's dinner of it (witness the confusion about proving citizenship of children born in the UK after the parents got ILR, but before parents got citizenship).

PR Cards/Certificates are issued under EU law and hence there is a variety of opinion on the validity of PR Cards/certificates/status on validity after British citizenship.

As an aside, your choice of username is more than slightly ironic given the nature of your query (EU PR and British citizenship).

Would it not be wonderful if the SAARC countries could form a union like the EU, a union of former enemies at war, now without borders and with freedom of movement for all citizens and their family members?

[Vande-Matram]

I realise this, upon acquiring British citizenship my EEA rights supersede to UK immigration law.

But I still need to make sure that the PR sticker on my passport was still valid to enter the UK?

Dear Secret.simon

Its a bit of a theological debate you have put me in though I would like to comment on some of the intriguing issues you have raised.

1. I am SLIGHTLY bit astounded that you find my username ironic, do you also find page 28 of the current British passport depicting graphical image of Indian classical dance of Bharat-Natyam a bit ironic?

2. The country where I was originally born is called 'Union of India', the union was dropped for the word republic in 1950, though there are still remnants of it which still survive from history such as Union Bank of India.

3. If you take Europe Union as a standard where countries are distributed due to language and not by skin colour than India is already a Union of small countries on its own, of about 29 larger states + 7 islands or union territories, most of the 29 states having there own languages for example Tamil, Gujarati, Bengali and others

4. Scientifically wide ranging human races are found in India. Dominantly you see Caucasians from India as the most generalised populace of India but there is also strong numbers of Mongoloid's who populate from the north central to eastern parts of India.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

4. For comparison to European Union, lets take UK, with a population of 65m, majority language is English and majority religion being Christianity, from India for comparison lets take Indian state of Gujarat, language is Gujarati, population is 60m, majority religion is Hinduism and people from rest of India can live and take part in public life. So a Tamil, a Malyali, a Kannad, a Gorkha, a Kashmiri, a Sikkimesse, a Naga, a Rajasthani, a Marathi, a Bengali and others from others states in India can live, work, or take part in any form of public life in Gujarat. (that also without the need of any bureaucratic framework/paperwork)

Also to add they enjoy freely to be able to speak their own language, express their religion, religious holidays(of not only Xmas) and also to add marry whoever they like without the fear of minimum of balance of £18,000 in the bank.

5. In short India is already a Union based on the principles of European Union before EU came into existence.

6. Majority population of India has not accepted a religion as state sponsored, even after being a democracy for all its independent life, President of India, Prime minister, state chief ministers, election commissioners, Chief of military staffs have all hailed from minority religions, majority religion of India is Hinduism who constitute 80% of its populace, which is an indigenous religion to India about 5000 years old and so are Sikhs and Buddhists, prior to forming Buddhism, Buddha was a Hindu king and all three religions celebrate Diwali as a major religious festival such as Xmas.

7. And none of the Hindu majority states forming the union have asked for independence from India, I myself am from the Dogra community from Jammu and Kashmir and I see myself as Indian before anything else.

If SAARC like situation you suggest were so popular then a BREXIT like situation wouldn't have happened. Moreover India should be very content with 1.2 billion population which provides it with enough workforce.

I hope these points answer perturbations in your mind and if you have more apprehensions, please feel free to comment, I am more than happy to engage in a meaningful debate.

[ohara]

You are aware that you lose Indian citizenship as soon as you become British, aren't you

[Vande-Matram]

I already have OCI, which is a form of curtailed Indian citizenship. I believe there are provisions to regain Indian citizenship at a later date.

I will renounce my current citizenship, as all Americans have to pay tax even living overseas.

Best

[secret.simon]

do you also find page 28 of the current British passport depicting graphical image of Indian classical dance of Bharat-Natyam a bit ironic?

I have the slightly older Shipping Forecast passport, so I had to google what you were referring to. I do not find it ironic so much as surreal, especially given how the transposed images of William Shakespeare and the Bharatnatyam dancer seem to suggest that he was appreciating the dancing.

At the risk of getting this thread locked due to going off-topic, I am not unaware of either the nomenclature of India nor of its diversity. Indeed, India and the US are examples of where the EU is headed and one of the arguments for Brexit could be whether we see ourselves as a natural fit in such an "ever closer political and economic union", such as those two countries.

The comment about SAARC was a pointer to the idea that the EU has brought peace to formerly warring neighbours and perhaps South Asia could try something like that to build peace. Given the remoteness of the likelihood of that occurring, the comment was also SAARCastic in tone.

Bringing the thread back on topic,

I see myself as Indian before anything else.

Would you be able to switch your identity, allegiance and patriotism from India to the UK when you become British? Would you pass the Tebbit test?

A British passport is not another visa, it is a change of way of thinking. As Fwd079's signature puts it, being British is a state of mind.

I am more than happy to engage in a meaningful debate.

I hope to have a meaningful discussion rather than a debate.

[Vande-Matram]

Dear Secret.Simon

Let me start with your last comment

I wanted to debate not indulge in discussion as because debating is a formal form of discussion, keeping to the sanctity of this forum, as I only wanted to put across factual information ie go by the law or stated facts and not relate to controversy theories of a discussion which is informal, as many disturbing personal prejudices can be overplayed in a discussion.

Would you be able to switch your identity, allegiance and patriotism from India to the UK when you become British? Would you pass the Tebbit test?
I don't need to switch because as per by British Law, a person who is holder of British Nationality can also hold citizenship of another country. So by all balance of probabilities it is assumed by the law that I can maintain 2xidentities, 2xallegiances and 2xpatriotism's or even if more.

The conundrum continues, Lord Tebbit never asked the same test for Gorkhas (hindus by religion), only foreign nationality who are employed as British soldiers, who are born and raised in Nepal, do British national duty, laying lives in wars, do you think it is British exploiting Gorkhas (where no consideration is given to their loyalty) or state of mind they would have during, living in UK or after their UK military service as a foreign national?

If a person has to change the state of mind, why do you think India would be the second largest investor in UK?

I believe many immigrants unknowingly become addicted to 'Stockholm Syndrome', as during their immigration process they don't realise that it is there hard-work and money spent on achieving there status.

For the question of SAARC, India has made peace within its warring states, such as in old times current state of Bihar when ruled by Asoka annihilated the modern state of Orissa, another example can be Maratha's who form the current state of Maharashtra was warring with southern states and of course the foreign powers such a Mughals. They all live in peace in India and trade with each other.

India is the 6th largest economy in the world, by 2030 it is predicted to be 3rd largest, though social disparities are extreme and need to be addressed in India. Its own work force needs to become prosperous rather than to invite other countries on wholesale as what happened with Britain after joining of A8 countries, and immigration from Eastern Europe became the major factor in Brexit, furthermore the adjoining countries don't feel the peaceful, secular or democratic aspirations of India.

India already has a visa free travel, live and work treaty with Nepal its neighbour. Pakistan enjoys the most favoured nation status by India but is it willing to change its ways?

For the dancing image, I just wished to make you realise that please appreciate the culture diversity the immigrants bring to the UK and how the British endorse as their own, so my username should be appreciated!

Your comments welcome.

[noajthan]

Tolerating divergence from topic but this is not to be taken as a precedent.

[cyborg001]

Loved this debate! As a fellow Indian who will always remain Indian at heart BUT with a global outlook you tell em' bro!

VANDE MATARAM!