ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Removal

General UK immigration & work permits; don't post job search or family related topics!

Please use this section of the board if there is no specific section for your query.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator

salimnina
BANNED
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Removal

Post by salimnina » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:38 pm

Hi,
Can anyone please tell em what's the difference between removal and deportation, I got my SAB file and it says:
" proceed with removal procedure..ect"
that is mean that the clock has stopped for me in staying in this country, I am a failed asylum seeker and I am just wondering what to do to get any status as i was refused, I am in my tenth year and I don't know if I can benefit with the ten year rule or 14 yr...can anyone please clarify to me and help if possible.
thanks

paulp
Diamond Member
Posts: 1071
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:34 pm

Post by paulp » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:14 pm

AFAIR, they both stop the clock. Admin removal is less heavy-handed.

jimquk
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: longsight manchester
United Kingdom

Post by jimquk » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:31 pm

From what I understand, deportation results from a court order following some criminal conviction, and return is not possible unless thr order of deportation is revoked; administrative removal is just a procedure by the Immigration Service to send back someone without status to remain, it is not a bar to returning to the UK (although applications are bound to be looked at carefully).

You have no grounds to apply for ILR after ten years, not sure about 14 - I think the clock is stopped when removal directions are issued, but others knw better about that. You may have a better chance with the case resolution exercise. How long ago was it written to proceed with removal? If it's been a long time, that suggests that removal in your case might be difficult, which would make a positive case reolution decision more likely. Which country are you from?
The Refused are coming day-by-day nearer to freedom.

salimnina
BANNED
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Post by salimnina » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:11 pm

i am from Algeria, the letter i had is dated march 2001, it's a IS151B(TBN) in which it says : decision to issue removal direction ....directions have been given to remove you from the UK...at a time and date to be notified ( with an appeal option)

after that i remember that i appealed and lost and was made to sign each month (now i am not becuase it's risky)

ii don't know if this is clear or not, but i hope ii get soem advise, you mentioned something about case resolution? any tips?

Decus et Tutamen
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:35 pm

Post by Decus et Tutamen » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:30 pm

In the circumstances you've outlined here, it doesn't really matter whether you're in line for removal or deportation; your 14-year clock stopped ticking in March 2001 when you were treated as an illegal entrant.

The introduction of £10,000 fines for people who employ those without authority to work and the inception of ID cards in November are only going to make life more awkward for those on the lam.

Jeff Albright
Senior Member
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:25 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:30 pm

Hi

Sorry to hear about this but I agree to the above posts - there is absolutely nothing you can do than just to leave the country.
Staying longer like this will only waste your own time - it will not earn you any prospective of legalising yourself in the country.

If you re-apply from abroad you still have better chances of returning.

All the best

INSIDER
Member
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:13 am

Post by INSIDER » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:38 am

The IS151 is an enforcement notice and it effectively stops the clock from the date of service. In addition, your failure to conform with your reporting conditions makes you an absconder.

I really can't see any way you would be able to regularise your stay. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Paulsmith
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:37 pm

Post by Paulsmith » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:20 am

You got three options:

1: To keep on with your life as it is at the moment.

2: To get in touch with the Home office and tell them where you live and start signing again only monthly or weekly basis. There is risk that you will be detained and removed from the UK but there is also chances that you might get status in the country through the Case Resolution Exercise. Of course a decision can be made to remove you even if you are considered under this Exercise, but this is the only chance to get leave to remain in this country.

3: You can go back and apply for entry clearance and come back to the UK again.


If you decide to go back and re-apply for entry clearance then you should give it a chance to go through the case resolution exercise. You will be granted or removed as they have to conclude your case.


How did you enter the UK? with or without passport? do you have some relatives here? are you a single person? any other compassionate circumstances?

Jeff Albright
Senior Member
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:25 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:01 am

INSIDER wrote: In addition, your failure to conform with your reporting conditions makes you an absconder.
Absolutely. You may even be on a police record - this means that any contact with police (for example, if you are stopped on the road) may result in arrest and detention.

Jeff Albright
Senior Member
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:25 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:07 am

Paulsmith wrote:
2: There is risk that you will be detained and removed from the UK but there is also chances that you might get status in the country through the Case Resolution Exercise. Of course a decision can be made to remove you even if you are considered under this Exercise, but this is the only chance to get leave to remain in this country.
Paul, this is quite unlikely knowing the Home Office law and policies, because there is simply no case in this instance. Algeria is generally considered as a safe country (appeal already been refused and dismissed by AIT so he/she does not qualify), even if there was a potential claim under the Article 8, the poor immigration history and absconding would negate all this - to make the case under the Article 8 the circumstances should be exceptional, which is extremely difficult to make out and impossible with such a poor immigration record.
So there is absolutely no chance in my opinion.

salimnina
BANNED
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Post by salimnina » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:34 pm

so there is not chance at all? how abut if i make a fresh claim ? or ...well I don't know what to say but nothing as nothing !? that's depressing, i have two boys and established my self, so there is nothing at all?

Paulsmith
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:37 pm

Post by Paulsmith » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:33 pm

Jeff Albright wrote: appeal already been refused and dismissed by AIT so he/she does not qualify
Why does somebody not qualify under the case resolution programme only because his/her claim failed and all appeal rights have been exhausted? Many people in the same situation have been granted ILR through the CRP and if he has to go back to Algeria then why not try to get the case considered under the CRP? he/she will be removed or granted ILR. The chances to get leave to remain are very low but not 0%.


Of course, the poor immigration history would weigh against the grant of leave to remain.

jimquk
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: longsight manchester
United Kingdom

Post by jimquk » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:50 pm

I agree with Paulsmith here. The case resolution programme as I understand it is designed to resolve cases by either grant of status or removal; people for whom removal is likely to be difficult or impossible should be considered for grant of status if there aren't other negative factors, like a criminal record.

Returns to Algeria do take place, but the particular circumstances of the case, eg lack of national passport, may make it difficult. The presence of UK-citizen children could also have a bearing on the matter. Again, the logic of the exercise if that if removal is likely to be followed by an application to return as a spouse which might well succeed, is it not better to grant status now?

I know that logic and common sense and humanity are not qualities we usually expect from the Home Office, but there are indications that the case resolution exercise is an attempt to deal with people in a sensible way.

Certainly it would be a mistake to think that case resolution amounts to an amnesty, but it is the best chance for many people. Our friend has a difficult decision to make, but he should at least consider making himself known to Immigration so that he may benefit from case resolution. Realistically, he has little to lose - he may be removed, but that would eventually happen anyway. At least he wouldn't have to worry about coming into contact with the Police.
The Refused are coming day-by-day nearer to freedom.

breeze123
Newly Registered
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:16 pm

Post by breeze123 » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:42 am

In my opnion, Paul and jim gave you the best advice you can get. If I am in your shoes I would make contact with BIA. ofcouse there is chance of being deported but there is the same chance of getting a status in this country ( according to their figures).
you can not stay forever like that. you have nothing to lose if you are going to Algeria anyway.

Jeff Albright
Senior Member
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:25 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:11 am

jimquk wrote: The case resolution programme as I understand it is designed to resolve cases by either grant of status or removal; people for whom removal is likely to be difficult or impossible should be considered for grant of status if there aren't other negative factors, like a criminal record.
All he could do is to try and see what happens. I could only wish him the best but ultimately, in my opinion, "case resolution" does not apply there, as the case itself has already been resolved resulting in refusal and administrative removal proceedings so the Home Office won't budge (appeal rights exhausted). If the case had been pending and no decision made, then it would have been a different picture altogether.
They would also say that removal could not have been rendered as "difficult" if the subject had not absconded.

Paulsmith
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:37 pm

Post by Paulsmith » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:07 am

What is a legacy case?
A legacy case is any case where all of the following apply:
ô€

Jeff Albright
Senior Member
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:25 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:09 am

Paulsmith wrote:What is a legacy case?
I don't think this is a legacy case, Paul.
ô€

salimnina
BANNED
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Post by salimnina » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:31 pm

As i mentioned i hope to make a fresh appeal if that:
doesn't risk my removal to me and my family?
how is my family ( wife and 2 babies) are affected in this?
i mean they haven't claimed any asylum, my wife is an over stayer and i don't know what the outcome for them, well my wife can argued that our marriage isn't recognized back home by her parents and could be under threat...well this isn't the case now...but again, how are my chances to get into this resolution case, in my SAB file, i read something like "case closed" again would that stop me from making a fresh claim ? some people think that i haven't nothing to lose, well I am loosing now being in a country that will not allow me in for such long time, going back ? well, I have no ties back home and i don't know how it's going to be possible, let alone the reasons why i claimed asylum in the first place, hope to get some more advises, thanks for all

Jeff Albright
Senior Member
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:25 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:20 pm

You can certainly make a fresh claim and also bring Human Rights grounds.
You need an expert immigration advice in your case. You need a expert immigration lawyer specialising in asylum and Human Rights. Quite honestly I cannot see what you can do in your asylum claim, as it covers very specific area. I cannot possibly see how you could be persecuted in Algeria unless you have participated in some policital activities whilst in the UK. How could you prove that you would be tortured or killed if you were returned? Is your wife the same nationality as you are? Why would your marriage not be recognised? Would your internal relocation in Algeria be an option?
These are very few questions you will need to address.
If you make a fresh claim, you can stay safely until it is decided (and they decide cases very quickly nowadays), however, given your previous immigration history and non-compliance with reporting, there is a chance you may be detained.
One of the options for you to consider is the Human Rights article 8. You will need to prove why your family life cannot continue in Algeria. You need to address your private life as well - have you made significant progress in your career, do you have the skills that can benefit the United Kingdom, are you within a stable professional employment? Have you made many friends there, within community where you live, have you made significant contribution to that community?
The decision maker in your case will have to weigh the public interest of the UK in maintaining the fair and efficient immigration policy against your own interests. Fair and efficient immigration control is the first and foremost priority of the UK government, which you have knowingly breached by remaining in the UK without authority and knowingly failing to comply with reporting instructions. In order to succeed in your case, you will have to make out the case, in which despite all the breaches you have committed, you have something so exceptional that would drive a decision in your favour and override the law (to allow you to remain in the country outside the Immigration Rules). This is very very difficult.
There have been hundreds of cases, in which the claimants had a lot more favourable circumstances than yours and they still were refused, appeals dismissed and people had to leave the country in order to join the queue for the correct entry clearance to the UK and then return in the appropriate categories in the Immigration Rules.
These are the questions you need to think of, if you wish to make a valid claim under the Article 8.

I wish you and your family all the best for the future.

Paulsmith
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:37 pm

Post by Paulsmith » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:46 pm

Salimnina, how old are your children? Were they born in the UK? you might can benefit from the 7 year child concession(I don't know much about this concession but somebody else can give you more information).


Many people have claimed asylum in the UK and about 80% were refused and only about further 20% were granted status through Courts.

In my opinion the main issue is that if the applicant can practically be removed. Most of the 450.000 cases have been issued with removal directions but that is only theoretical and to follow the process. People from Eritrea, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc have claimed asylum and were refused and have been issued with an ISI151 but that is only because they have to bring the process to an end. These people can't be sent back practically because the HO hasn't got the resources to remove the majority of 450.000 people. Jeff, what you think is right theoretically but not practically in my opinion.

To remove somebody what the caseworker has to do is only issue a ISI151 and his work is complete, but the challenging part is when they need to detain the claimant, arrange flight, arrange travel documents etc.


"The Home Office will consider a legacy case concluded when the individual has left the UK or been granted leave to remain in the UK"
www.ilpa.org.uk

Remove somebody means to remove somebody practically from the UK for the CRD.


"The Home Office will treat a legacy case as closed if they cannot contact the individual, but they will first make what they consider to be reasonable efforts to make contact".


They will try to contact Salimnina but if they can't they will close the case. If they manage to get in contact they will either remove(theoretically and practically) him or grant him leave to remain.

Jeff Albright
Senior Member
Posts: 752
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:25 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Post by Jeff Albright » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:49 am

Paulsmith wrote:Salimnina, how old are your children? Were they born in the UK? you might can benefit from the 7 year child concession(I don't know much about this concession but somebody else can give you more information).
Called DP5/96, the policy documents are available on the BIA website.
These people can't be sent back practically because the HO hasn't got the resources to remove the majority of 450.000 people. Jeff, what you think is right theoretically but not practically in my opinion.
This is the correct statistics, Paul. However, bearing in mind that the UK is such a popular destination for immigrants, the Government will almost certainly stand firm on the practicality of this operation and will not give in by introducing any amnesties. The only way to handle this in my opinion, would be a regularisation programme, such as "earned regularisation", which would only allow certain categories of irregular migrants to gain legal status. But the author will fall out of this because of his deliberate breaches of the law, i.e. poor immigration history.
I am sure there are ways of locating many of the irregular migrants using various ways - linking NIN to immigration records, linking local council records to immigration, requiring the landlords to check the status of tenants and introducing some register for landlords on the council records, linking NHS records to the Home Office. It is all feasible and can be arranged easily. In Australia, for example, this system works perfectly well. All the government and local government records are shared. There is almost 100% compliance with the immigration law here and you cannot get health service, bank account, tax file number, driving license, tenancy without a legal immigration status - if you become irregular, everyone will know about this and you are located in minutes.
If the UK Government had not allowed the major blunders and incompetence in the immigration control at the end of 90s and beginning of 2000, they would have never had the problem with so many irregular migrants in the first place.
To remove somebody what the caseworker has to do is only issue a ISI151 and his work is complete, but the challenging part is when they need to detain the claimant, arrange flight, arrange travel documents etc.
Yes, again, it works very well in many other countries. Why should the UK be different?
"The Home Office will treat a legacy case as closed if they cannot contact the individual, but they will first make what they consider to be reasonable efforts to make contact".
But this is not impossible. There must be at least one or two ways of locating them. Doctor's records, NHS records, council records.

salimnina
BANNED
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Post by salimnina » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:41 pm

my two boys were born here, in what is based the fresh claim? well my grand father was found dead and I was with him then in the political arena, he was detained then...long story...so i think the same people who did that to him, would do it to me, in respect of me relocating, i had lost ties with my country and have barely any news from my own family, all i know that they're ok,in respect of my life in the uk, i studied and got my Bsc in Computing, i work with someone but unnfortunately illegally, not a great job but as a manager in a vehicle hire company, regarding my human right? god knows if they were included in my appeal? i will contact my MP who I know personally ( i don't know if that will help or not) but again in all this, I am lost and do not know what to do, now if BIA will contact me then I still didn't updated them with my new address,last time i heard about the legacy case i sent them a letter asking them to send me the questionnaire to qualify, i did include my new address and i don't know if that is enough, well as you can see, i am in a desperate situation here and there is a lot as stake... it's the million $ question they say

Paulsmith
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:37 pm

Post by Paulsmith » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:01 pm

salimnina wrote:my two boys were born here, in what is based the fresh claim? well my grand father was found dead and I was with him then in the political arena, he was detained then...long story...so i think the same people who did that to him, would do it to me, in respect of me relocating, i had lost ties with my country and have barely any news from my own family, all i know that they're ok,in respect of my life in the uk, i studied and got my Bsc in Computing, i work with someone but unnfortunately illegally, not a great job but as a manager in a vehicle hire company, regarding my human right? god knows if they were included in my appeal? i will contact my MP who I know personally ( i don't know if that will help or not) but again in all this, I am lost and do not know what to do, now if BIA will contact me then I still didn't updated them with my new address,last time i heard about the legacy case i sent them a letter asking them to send me the questionnaire to qualify, i did include my new address and i don't know if that is enough, well as you can see, i am in a desperate situation here and there is a lot as stake... it's the million $ question they say

They might have received your letter but your case is not a priority.

Priorities:

cases of individuals who may pose a risk to the public
cases of individuals who may easily be removed
cases of individuals receiving support
cases of individuals who may be granted leave to remain


You can call the HO and let them know your new address and wait until they contact you.

How old are your boys? When were they born month/year?

salimnina
BANNED
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:15 pm

Post by salimnina » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:56 pm

the first one is 13 month old, the second one is due this month, well any time now...how exciting...anyway ..
by the way I was issued with an: IS96NW does that make any difference ? I also contacted my PM and he asked for my H/O number...do you think there is anything they can do?
cheers

jimquk
Member
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:08 pm
Location: longsight manchester
United Kingdom

Post by jimquk » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:43 pm

IS96 is just the paper detailing the terms of your Temporary Admission - specifying where you should live (in reality it just means you have to inform them when you move) and saying if and when you have to sign with Immigration. IS96 NW I think means North West England. If you are in Manchester, you will have to sign at Dallas Court. Signing of course carries the risk of removal. I would go to somewhere like Greater Manchester Immigration Aid Unit for advice before making a decision about signing or not.
The Refused are coming day-by-day nearer to freedom.

Locked