Surinder Singh and selfsufficient

[crystalpearl]

noajthan no mistakes, no let me explain:
my wife is solely a BC no other EEA nationality but since we lived in another EEA member state, she's treated as an EEA national, EU regulations, hope this clears the picture,

You can consider (1) SS to be the correct case here.
my wife could have sponsored me if we spent more time in the EEA state (more than 6 months, with a job or so and child going to a school), moving center of life to the EEA state is very important to the HO.


Smiley: yes I agree, I'll send a good covering letter with more details,

in the HO letter they referred to the amendments of Article 9 that took place on the 25th Nov 2016, my application was lodged on the 20 June, I know it's to include applications which were not decided until 25 Nov, any ideas ?

[noajthan]

noajthan no mistakes, no let me explain:
my wife is solely a BC no other EEA nationality but since we lived in another EEA member state, she's treated as an EEA national, EU regulations, hope this clears the picture,

You can consider (1) SS to be the correct case here.
my wife could have sponsored me if we spent more time in the EEA state (more than 6 months, with a job or so and child going to a school), moving center of life to the EEA state is very important to the HO.


Smiley: yes I agree, I'll send a good covering letter with more details,

in the HO letter they referred to the amendments of Article 9 that took place on the 25th Nov 2016, my application was lodged on the 20 June, I know it's to include applications which were not decided until 25 Nov, any ideas ?

So it was a misrepresentation/misunderstanding that your sponsor is an "EEA citizen".
In context of SS she is not unless you were examined and proved it. And at the time of entry selfsufficiency was not an option recognised for SS in the UK EEA Regs.

If you had no FP then presumably you are a visa national?
Either way it's an example of gross incompetence at the border. The Daily Fail would have a field day.

I understand about SS.
But the UK has not recognised selfsufficiency as a valid activity until this month's rule changes.
And yes, you don't appear to have fulfilled the col test very well even though that too is incompliant with the cleaner, purer EU law.

Noone knows whether the recent SS/ss changes will be applied retrospectively. It appears you are a test case.
Even if they are the time you have spent abroad appears too short.

[crystalpearl]

noajthan I'm sorry I'm not an expert with the law, I thought once my wife has excersised her EU treaty rights in another member state, she is considered to be an EEA citizen on return to the home country,

Misunderstanding ,sorry.

Yes I know, not to give you more surprises, this happened twice
I went to my home country on my own for few days, upon return to the UK, admitted entry for the 2nd time but after a lengthy dialogue this time, coming back on my own, no CoA even on me, no biometrics were done yet, nothing.
I think it depends on your individual situation. this is how my case happened to be.
Cheers

Edit: sorry yes I'm a visa national

[noajthan]

noajthan I'm sorry I'm not an expert with the law, I thought once my wife has excersised her EU treaty rights in another member state, she is considered to be an EEA citizen on return to the home country,

Misunderstanding ,sorry.

Yes I know, not to give you more surprises, this happened twice
I went to my home country on my own for few days, upon return to the UK, admitted entry for the 2nd time but after a lengthy dialogue this time, coming back on my own, no CoA even on me, no biometrics were done yet, nothing.
I think it depends on your individual situation. this is how my case happened to be.
Cheers

Edit: sorry yes I'm a visa national

Up until November this year, the only options UK recognised (grudgingly) for SS were employment and selfemployment.
That is very clear, as per EEA Regs, despite being unlawful and incompatible with EU law and the Directive.

Its no secret, you can read the EEA Regs here (now updated with recent changes):
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Latest/ByPage/part1_9

Since November, students and selfsufficient qulaified persons are now recognised. We have yet to see any such cases reported on the Board.

Interestingly, extended family members are now no longer recognised. So a lot of folks in far-flung places such as Eire are going to have a shock if/when they return to UK with sibling, cousin, uncle or ??
Fortunately for you, direct family members (spouses) are still recognised for SS purposes.

All I can say is you were very fortunate to make it into the country with no valid documentation (twice). What a story to tell the grandkids one day.

[crystalpearl]

noajthan yes I was and have always been fortunate, will tell grandchildren about all this fiction like story,

What I recommend is: the IO are humans, do NOT challenge them in an arrogant way, nobody would like it,
Just be as nice as you would like others to be with you, don't just go:'the law says ABC, do it', the outcome will never be positive, I presume!

[noajthan]

noajthan yes I was and have always been fortunate, will tell grandchildren about all this fiction like story,

What I recommend is: the IO are humans, do NOT challenge them in an arrogant way, nobody would like it,
Just be as nice as you would like others to be with you, don't just go:'the law says ABC, do it', the outcome will never be positive, I presume!

Agreed, politeness is next to cleanliness (and godliness).
But politeness doesn't authorise the border guard to breach protocol and let you in willy nilly.

In fact some people have been refused for actually knowing the law:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/home-of ... knows-law/
- and that was well before the new 'intention to circumvent UK domestic rules' provisions which have just been brought in.

Anyway you are where you are and now need to work with what you've got, including your short track record abroad.

You seem to be the testcase to help determine the full meaning and interpretation of the new SS rules.

Did spouse/sponsor go to live abroad with you directly from UK or did you both go to Europe from somewhere else
What happened to spouse/sponsor's UK house, any UK business interests, (cat, goldfish, etc) whilst out in a.no.ther EU state?

Good luck.

[vinny]

Up until November this year, the only options UK recognised (grudgingly) for SS were employment and selfemployment.
That is very clear, as per EEA Regs, despite being unlawful and incompatible with EU law and the Directive.

Its no secret, you can read the EEA Regs here (now updated with recent changes):
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Latest/ByPage/part1_9

Since November, students and selfsufficient qulaified persons are now recognised. We have yet to see any such cases reported on the Board.

They should have recognised self-sufficient British citizens satisfying the SS route long before the changes in the EEA regulations. Hence, I can understand them not disputing this even though you had applied before the changes in the EEA regulations.

Further analysis of Surinder Singh following O S .

Supports my view on the Centre of life test and the extension of Surinder Singh to cover people who had exercise treaty rights in a non-economic capacity.

People who have received refusal on the basis of centre of life test, could rely on direct effect of the CJEU judgement in court.

[Obie]

Interestingly, extended family members are now no longer recognised. So a lot of folks in far-flung places such as Eire are going to have a shock if/when they return to UK with sibling, cousin, uncle or ??
Fortunately for you, direct family members (spouses) are still recognised for SS purposes.

Extended family member have never been recognised, and i do not see the regulation as changing that position.

[crystalpearl]

Agreed, politeness is next to cleanliness (and godliness).
But politeness doesn't authorise the border guard to breach protocol and let you in willy nilly.

Anyway you are where you are and now need to work with what you've got, including your short track record abroad.

Did spouse/sponsor go to live abroad with you directly from UK or did you both go to Europe from somewhere else
What happened to spouse/sponsor's UK house, any UK business interests, (cat, goldfish, etc) whilst out in a.no.ther EU state?
Good luck.

that's really strange, for going extensively through the regulations, they got refused?!
we traveled from the the middle east after we lived there for 5 years, it scares me the short track in the member state
Spouse left her job to come n live with me in the middle east,

thank you very much, yes I've to continue being fortunate , this can't stop now, lol

[noajthan]

that's really strange, for going extensively through the regulations, they got refused?!
we traveled from the the middle east after we lived there for 5 years, it scares me the short track in the member state
Spouse left her job to come n live with me in the middle east,

thank you very much, yes I've to continue being fortunate , this can't stop now, lol

This is the climate and mindset surrounding EU regs that you are up against.

At least sponsor didn't leave UK for 3 months to Europe and then back to UK.
Going into EU from ME stands in your favour.

[alphagear]

you honestly tellling me they would kick out people with british children and out of country appeals?

[Obie]

At least sponsor didn't leave UK for 3 months to Europe and then back to UK.
Going into EU from ME stands in your favour.

But the Centre of Life is not confined to the UK, it could be the case, that a person's centre of life was not transferred to a member state. That it was in a third country.

Essentially a person could still fail, even if they were not residing in the UK prior to the move to another EU country.

[noajthan]

you honestly tellling me they would kick out people with british children and out of country appeals?

Free movement is free as in speech not as in beer. There is no such thing as a free lunch; any Union citizen still in UK after 3 months has to be settled or a qualified person or sponsored by one as a dependent.

Is this connected to your case?
I'm not telling anything rather its the collective experience of members' experiences and the hive mind of the forum.

Children don't lead to an automatic Willie Wonka-style golden ticket.
There is derivative provision for Union citizens with children if they have no other basis to stay - it doesn't lead to PR though.

[alphagear]

yes received a letter asking whether im working or looking for work in UK?

What happened to Eind?

Anyway just noticed that they now have out of country appeals?

[mkhan2525]

It's now the norm for Ho to ask for more information before they decide an application even though the information requested breaches EU case law.

http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/ ... 61052.html