EEA (PR): Proof of dependency

[oleburdo]

Dear All,

I wonder if someone can advise or had any experience maybe.
Does anyone know what proof of dependency one can provide when applying for their EEA (PR)? The applicants in question are disabled and elderly, 65 and 74 y.o who require personal help from the sponsor. They can provide all the medical history and proof of cohabiting with their direct family member sponsor.
As for the financial dependency, the applicants can only show that the rent and TV licence is being paid by the sponsor but nothing else. They don't get any bank transfers as they live with the sponsor who buys food and clothing for them. Can the application be rejected on the grounds of not enough proof? We just don't know what else we can provide to show their financial dependency...

[oleburdo]

Hi guys,

I wonder if you could advise on the below.
A couple (disabled and elderly applicants) is applying for their Permanent residence cards. They have been living with their son (EU national) and daughter (non-EU national) who is married to an EU national. Their both children are constantly supporting the applicants. Would it be a good idea to state that the applicants have two sponsors or would be better to go with only one?

Thank you very much in advance xx

[noajthan]

One sponsor.

Case can always be refused due to lack of adequate supporting evidence.
It is up to applicant to submit adequate documentary evidence to support their case.

Proof of dependency is a well-known requirement for dependents;
applicants' and sponsor's lifestyles should be organised so as to generate such a papertrail.

You can dig into such vital questions here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... als-v4.pdf

[oleburdo]

Dear noajthan,

Many thanks for your reply.

Do you know if a dependent should/must provide his/her proof of dependency even if applying with form EEA4 which is not asking for it? Or say when applying with just a covering letter instead of the form - do they ask for all the supporting documents anyway or it depends?

Appreciate your help, thank you very much xx

[noajthan]

Dear noajthan,

Many thanks for your reply.

Do you know if a dependent should/must provide his/her proof of dependency even if applying with form EEA4 which is not asking for it? Or say when applying with just a covering letter instead of the form - do they ask for all the supporting documents anyway or it depends?

Appreciate your help, thank you very much xx

Dependents do have to submit adequate supporting evidence

See guidance - eg section 13 for parents:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -04_KP.pdf

Applications with inadequate or missing information are most likely to fail.

[oleburdo]

Hi there,

Thank you very much for your reply

I believe the guidance is for the current EEA (PR) application form. What if an applicant is applying with EEA4 which does not ask for a proof of dependency?

And secondly, I have just been advised that the applicants cannot use banking (online or ATM) - and never had any transfers, what can they provide as a proof of dependency instead?

Please correct if I am not right xx

[oleburdo]

Hi there,

Thank you very much for your reply

I believe the guidance is for the current EEA (PR) application form. What if an applicant is applying with EEA4 which does not ask for a proof of dependency?

And secondly, I have just been advised that the applicants cannot use banking (online or ATM) - and never had any transfers, what can they provide as a proof of dependency instead?

Please correct if I am not right xx

[noajthan]

The guidance is for current applications and will be judged against current regulations.

Finding a form that you think doesn't ask awkward questions is a recipe for disaster.

You can apply by letter if you wish, you still have to submit rock-solid supporting evidence!!

If you have not engineered your life to generate necessary evidence the application will not be likely to get very far as benefit of doubt is not given.

[noajthan]

HO plays hardball with dependents;
here is an example of someone who was a dependent (and was in UK) but lost her documents and then unable to prove dependency again:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1431454

[oleburdo]

Hi Noajthan,

Thank you for your reply.

If referring to Pedro's case (link given below), can we say if the applicant is a parent of an EEA national - can the dependency be still recognised as a matter of fact?

"As a result of Pedro, the position of dependent relatives in the ascending line (and presumably for dependent relatives in the descending line as the wording in the Directive is the same) is that they simply have to show dependency as a matter of fact. The ECJ case law the status of dependent family member is the result of a factual situation characterised by the fact that material support for that family member is provided by the Community national or the spouse who has exercised free movement rights. The status of dependence does not presuppose the existence of a right of maintenance and the status is not lost if the family member claims and receives benefit." http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/court-ap ... ascendancy

[noajthan]

Hi Noajthan,

Thank you for your reply.

If referring to Pedro's case (link given below), can we say if the applicant is a parent of an EEA national - can the dependency be still recognised as a matter of fact?

"As a result of Pedro, the position of dependent relatives in the ascending line (and presumably for dependent relatives in the descending line as the wording in the Directive is the same) is that they simply have to show dependency as a matter of fact. The ECJ case law the status of dependent family member is the result of a factual situation characterised by the fact that material support for that family member is provided by the Community national or the spouse who has exercised free movement rights. The status of dependence does not presuppose the existence of a right of maintenance and the status is not lost if the family member claims and receives benefit." http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/court-ap ... ascendancy

Yes, Pedro is your friend here.
Dependency as 'matter of fact' - not of choice, or of lifestyle nor of history.
However do note that case related to an EEA national.

[oleburdo]

Good morning Noajthan,

Many thanks for your reply, yes, you are right, I must remember it
Would you maybe able to advise, please? Do you think it would be better if the applicants state they receive financial help from their son (EEA national) and personal help (they are disabled, can prove) from their daughter (spouse of an EEA national)? And if yes, does the daughter need to send her passport as well? Or a proof of relationship would be enouph? Thank you very much in advance xx

[oleburdo]

Hi everyone,

I have been looking for a similar situation but could not find anything.
I wonder if you could advise, please.
My parents (non-EU nationals) came to the UK in 2011, on Family Permits being family members of my brother (EU citizen) and me (non-EU citizen) and my husband (EU citizen). All the paperwork was prepared by a solicitor. As I can see from SAR, my brother was recognised as their sponsor, the Family Permits were endorsed with my name (not sure if that meant that I was just accompanying them as I was in the country on the day of the application?).
Later on, when applying for Residence Cards - our solicitor has probably provided my husband's details as their sponsor and SAR states that his passport was also provided and I can't see any signs of my brother. Me and my brother have been helping our parents constantly, but my husband does not have any proof of financial support and, moreover, we separated 2 years ago. Now, its only me and my brother both holding permanent residence and supporting our parents...They need lots of help with their personal case as their health is not great.
Could you please advise what we can do now? If applying for PR - can my brother state that he has been supporting our parents for the last 5 years (even if my husband acted as their sponsor for their residence cards (as per SAR) and I have been helping them too?

Thank you very much in advance.

[noajthan]

Posts merged.
No need for multiple posts.

[noajthan]

Good morning Noajthan,

Many thanks for your reply, yes, you are right, I must remember it
Would you maybe able to advise, please? Do you think it would be better if the applicants state they receive financial help from their son (EEA national) and personal help (they are disabled, can prove) from their daughter (spouse of an EEA national)? And if yes, does the daughter need to send her passport as well? Or a proof of relationship would be enouph? Thank you very much in advance xx

An applicant cannot really have two different sponsors although they may have more than one income stream.
In fact two competing sponsors may weaken their case as the applicant needs to demonstrate (and prove) dependency for essential daily needs on their (one) sponsor.

[noajthan]

Hi everyone,

I have been looking for a similar situation but could not find anything.
I wonder if you could advise, please.
My parents (non-EU nationals) came to the UK in 2011, on Family Permits being family members of my brother (EU citizen) and me (non-EU citizen) and my husband (EU citizen). All the paperwork was prepared by a solicitor. As I can see from SAR, my brother was recognised as their sponsor, the Family Permits were endorsed with my name (not sure if that meant that I was just accompanying them as I was in the country on the day of the application?).
Later on, when applying for Residence Cards - our solicitor has probably provided my husband's details as their sponsor and SAR states that his passport was also provided and I can't see any signs of my brother. Me and my brother have been helping our parents constantly, but my husband does not have any proof of financial support and, moreover, we separated 2 years ago. Now, its only me and my brother both holding permanent residence and supporting our parents...They need lots of help with their personal case as their health is not great.
Could you please advise what we can do now? If applying for PR - can my brother state that he has been supporting our parents for the last 5 years (even if my husband acted as their sponsor for their residence cards (as per SAR) and I have been helping them too?

Thank you very much in advance.

Are you divorced or just separated?
If your EEA husband is divorced (from 2 years or so ago) then the family relationship to his in-laws has been terminated and so he (and you as his now ex-spouse) cannot sponsor your parents anymore.

Simply stating (self-certifying) that brother has been supporting parents is not good enough, brother will need to furnish proof of such support.

If parents cannot show they are direct family members with proof of support then it may be they can be considered under rules for extended family members.
In that case proof of dependency and/or membership of sponsor's household would be required.
And parents would have to hold RCs as EFMs of named sponsor in order to reside in UK and for such time to count towards acquisition of PR status.

Are parents members of anyone's household or do they live independently? You mentioned they cohabit with a sponsor - which sponsor is that?

[oleburdo]

Dear noajthan,

Thank you very much for confirming.
May I please kindly ask you to advise on my situation with sponsorship? I have described it earlier.
Our solicitor presented my husband as their sponsor when they were applying for their Residence Permits 5 years ago, dont know why he did not choose my brother..And we have not separated with my husband. Can my brother be my parents' sponsor for their EEA (PR)? He has been supporting them and holds Permanent Residence?
Appreciate your help, thank you very much in advance x

[noajthan]

Whichever EEA son/daughter (plus EEA/non-EEA spouse) can be sponsor if they are sponsoring and have been sponsoring and have the necessary proof. Not just cover letters.

If you look on PR form there is only space for one sponsor; that should be the strongest sponsor with best supporting evidence.

Proof of relationship also required, that's why its a problem if an in-law EEA sponsor has divorced.

[oleburdo]

Dear noajthan,

Thank you so much for your help.
Yes, thats true, you need the right person to sponsor. I believe my brother is the best option as he is looking after them and provides any care and support (along with me, of course )
I was just worried that if a person who was acting as the sponsor for their Residence Permits must sponsor their PR...
Many thanks for your help and have a good night!

[noajthan]

No need - you can switch sponsors.
Its all about the evidence at the end of the day.

[ecogle1976]

Hi,

In my case I have submitted water bill and Council tax bill, Home office refused due to not submitted evidence to prove that sponsor has meeting expenses. If dependent living with sponsor in same household, its more than that enough to prove your sponsor paying rent and other utility bills, you need not to prove financial transactions between applicant and sponsor. But make sure you have proper evidence to prove that, even sponsor can show if she or he buy groceries for the family, it can be treated as evidence that you are caring your dependent.

[oleburdo]

Hi ecogle,

Thank you for your reply.
In my case, we can provide the sponsor's bank statements showing he is paying the rent, tv licence and same bank statements as a proof he buys groceries...I wonder if we can also include the applicants' PIP and Attendence Allowance confirmation from DWP showing that they are disabled and need personal help from the sponsor, can it help at all? x

[oleburdo]

No need - you can switch sponsors.
Its all about the evidence at the end of the day.

Hi noajthan,

Sorry for being a pest, I am trying to find that regulation about switching sponsors (within EEA regulations), does it it exist anywhere in writing at all or its just a common sense rule? Thank you very much

[noajthan]

No need - you can switch sponsors.
Its all about the evidence at the end of the day.

Hi noajthan,

Sorry for being a pest, I am trying to find that regulation about switching sponsors (within EEA regulations), does it it exist anywhere in writing at all or its just a common sense rule? Thank you very much

You can dig into such vital matters in the only reference I'm aware of (specifically relating to EFM), see:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... als_v3.pdf
- as EFMs are evidently permitted to switch there is no reason to suspect that direct FMs (ie those higher up the EU food chain) may not switch.

[Obie]

Dependency as 'matter of fact' - not of choice, or of lifestyle nor of history.
However do note that case related to an EEA national.

Well the case law indicates that dependency can be a choice. An able bodied person can choose not to work and live of their parents income. Provided the person as a result will of their refusal to work, will not be able to meet their essential needs, it will amount to dependency. Therefore i am not sure you are right.

I accept it will not amount to dependency , if the funds remitted is to facilitate a particular life style. However choice dependency is accepted. The court of Appeal in SM India adopted the Lebon approach, and i believed that this was also followed by the Upper Tribunal in Lim, which involved the Malaysian family that decide not to use their savings, and decide to rely on the support of family in the UK aswell.