PR application non-EEA spouse after Surinder Singh route

[bobclancy]

Hi, advice please. I am a UK citizen who was working in Spain for 8 years during which time met and married my non-EEA wife. Living and working together there for 5 years. Business finished and I returned to UK with my wife, entering by car at Dover quoting Surinder Singh with relevant paperwork successfully.

I was over 60 years old at the time of return and qualified for UK pension credit, so became economically inactive. My reading of the regulations at the time led me to believe my wife could be entitled to Permanent Residence immediately, so duly applied. That was refused but a 5 year Residence Card was issued. That card expires next week.

To apply for Permanent Residence card now, form EEA4 asks for many details and proofs which we have been very remiss in obtaining (because everything is in my name), including travel details for my wife outside of UK. She has visited friends in Spain and family in Africa during these 5 years but we have not kept records. How carefully are records checked in these circumstances?

Also because both of us have Spanish Permanent Residencias, is it routine for UK to request or access any details from Spanish authorities?

Any help will be hugely appreciated, thanks.

[noajthan]

Hi, advice please. I am a UK citizen who was working in Spain for 8 years during which time met and married my non-EEA wife. Living and working together there for 5 years. Business finished and I returned to UK with my wife, entering by car at Dover quoting Surinder Singh with relevant paperwork successfully.

I was over 60 years old at the time of return and qualified for UK pension credit, so became economically inactive. My reading of the regulations at the time led me to believe my wife could be entitled to Permanent Residence immediately, so duly applied. That was refused but a 5 year Residence Card was issued. That card expires next week.

To apply for Permanent Residence card now, form EEA4 asks for many details and proofs which we have been very remiss in obtaining (because everything is in my name), including travel details for my wife outside of UK. She has visited friends in Spain and family in Africa during these 5 years but we have not kept records. How carefully are records checked in these circumstances?

Also because both of us have Spanish Permanent Residencias, is it routine for UK to request or access any details from Spanish authorities?

Any help will be hugely appreciated, thanks.

No, in order to acquire the holy grail of PR a dependent SS veteran needs 5 years time served in UK (dating from arrival into UK).

Its vital to collate and submit your bundle of evidence from back in the day.

UK and Spain may share immigration-related intelligence via SIS and other databanks (as do a whole troupe of other EU countries).

Regarding absences, you need to be accurate as possible, estimate month and year if you have forgotten the odd day.
The purpose is to demonstrate both presence in UK and that any absences were kept within prescribed limits so as not to break continuity of residence.
That's more important for SS cases as it could be that you lose the right (as a proxy EEA national) to sponsor your dependent if residence is broken by either the sponsor's or the sponsee's absence.

Also be aware of recent EEA Regulation changes (in UK) that seem to have done away with Eind such that the BC sponsor now needs to be a qualified person even when back in UK.
Its a little unclear if this will be applied retrospectively or not so you may be in the clear (depending on relevant dates and timeline of your application).

[ohara]

I was over 60 years old at the time of return and qualified for UK pension credit, so became economically inactive. My reading of the regulations at the time led me to believe my wife could be entitled to Permanent Residence immediately, so duly applied. That was refused but a 5 year Residence Card was issued. That card expires next week.

Where did you read that wife would immediately acquire PR on your return? It's good that UKVI had the sense to process the application for a PR card as one for an RC instead, in lieu of her eligibility for a PR card, rather than flatly refusing the application.

To apply for Permanent Residence card now, form EEA4 asks for many details and proofs which we have been very remiss in obtaining (because everything is in my name), including travel details for my wife outside of UK. She has visited friends in Spain and family in Africa during these 5 years but we have not kept records. How carefully are records checked in these circumstances?

The current form to apply for a permanent residence card is EEA(PR), athough EEA3/EEA4 forms are still accepted. This may be changing early next year, though.

If you don't remember exact travel dates, write the approximate dates and explain it in the additional information box. They are only looking to see whether she has broken continuity of residence by being out of the UK for more than 6 months in a year, so as long as her absences are nowhere near that, she won't have a problem.

Also because both of us have Spanish Permanent Residencias, is it routine for UK to request or access any details from Spanish authorities?

You will have lost your Spanish PR by now as you have been absent for more than 2 years.

[bobclancy]

PR virtually immediate for non-EEA spouse of retired Brit via Surinder Singh?

1. Am I correct in thinking that a right is acquired when the Immigration Regulation conditions are met and that the issue of a RC or PR card is merely confirmation?

2. My reading of relevant regulations in 2011 and the application for PR in 2011 was based on the following extract. Part 2, Section 15(1)(c) and(d). Importantly (a) and (b) contain the 5 years continuous residence provision, (e) and (f) contain time conditions, (c) and (d) do not.


From EEA Regulations :

“Permanent right of residence
15.—(1) The following persons shall acquire the right to reside in the United Kingdom permanently—
(a) an EEA national who has resided in the United Kingdom in accordance with these Regulations for a continuous period of five years;
(b) a family member of an EEA national who is not himself an EEA national but who has resided in the United Kingdom with the EEA national in accordance with these Regulations for a continuous period of five years;
(c) a worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity;
(d) the family member of a worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity;
………
(2) Once acquired, the right of permanent residence under this regulation shall be lost only through absence from the United Kingdom for a period exceeding two consecutive years.”
N.B This Section quoted is from the 2006 Regulations in force when entry to UK was granted via Surinder Singh in August 2011, and has not been changed in subsequent amendments including the latest.

[noajthan]

PR virtually immediate for non-EEA spouse of retired Brit via Surinder Singh?

1. Am I correct in thinking that a right is acquired when the Immigration Regulation conditions are met and that the issue of a RC or PR card is merely confirmation?

2. My reading of relevant regulations in 2011 and the application for PR in 2011 was based on the following extract. Part 2, Section 15(1)(c) and(d). Importantly (a) and (b) contain the 5 years continuous residence provision, (e) and (f) contain time conditions, (c) and (d) do not.


From EEA Regulations :

“Permanent right of residence
15.—(1) The following persons shall acquire the right to reside in the United Kingdom permanently—
(a) an EEA national who has resided in the United Kingdom in accordance with these Regulations for a continuous period of five years;
(b) a family member of an EEA national who is not himself an EEA national but who has resided in the United Kingdom with the EEA national in accordance with these Regulations for a continuous period of five years;
(c) a worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity;
(d) the family member of a worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity;
………
(2) Once acquired, the right of permanent residence under this regulation shall be lost only through absence from the United Kingdom for a period exceeding two consecutive years.”

N.B This Section quoted is from the 2006 Regulations in force when entry to UK was granted via Surinder Singh in August 2011, and has not been changed in subsequent amendments including the latest.

1) Yes EU docs are merely confirmatory.

2) Which parts do you think apply to you? and why?

It is part b) that applies to a family member who has undertaken an SS sojourn with their BC sponsor and then returned to UK. Not part d).
Are you the dependent FM or the sponsor? (My understanding is you are the BC sponsor).

[bobclancy]

Hi, very quick response, thank you.
The very top of this topic stated my/our position......... " I am a UK citizen who was working in Spain for 8 years during which time met and married my non-EEA wife. Living and working together there for 5 years. Business finished and I returned to UK with my wife, entering by car at Dover quoting Surinder Singh with relevant paperwork successfully.

I was over 60 years old at the time of return and qualified for UK pension credit, so became economically inactive. My reading of the regulations at the time led me to believe my wife could be entitled to Permanent Residence immediately, so duly applied. That was refused but a 5 year Residence Card was issued. That card expires next week."

The whole of the Regulations are applicable to EEA nationals surely, and from that I could see no reason why 15(1)(d) should not cover me as a BC genuinely to be treated as SS

[MrSlyFox]

Hello, I don't know if permanent residence would be applicable for SS as under the interpretations of the EEA Regulations they state:

“Worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity”

5.—(1) In these Regulations, “worker or self-employed person who has ceased activity” means an EEA national who satisfies the conditions in paragraph (2), (3), (4) or (5).

(2) A person satisfies the conditions in this paragraph if he—

(a)terminates his activity as a worker or self-employed person and—
(i)has reached the age at which he is entitled to a state pension on the date on which he terminates his activity; or
(ii)in the case of a worker, ceases working to take early retirement;
(b)pursued his activity as a worker or self-employed person in the United Kingdom for at least twelve months prior to the termination; and
(c)resided in the United Kingdom continuously for more than three years prior to the termination.

So a person could be deemed to have achieved PR under this section if either they:
A. Reach state pension age and retire (5.2.A) or;
B. Retire early after working in the UK for the last 12 Months and resided in the UK for Three years (5.2.B)

Also section 5.2.a.i mentions retirement age is reached when you reach state pension age which is 65 and not 60. (You mentioned you received pension credit which might be different from a state pension? I'm not really sure about that)

As person who undertook SS you say you were in Spain for eight years before ceasing activity so you wouldn't meet the section 5.2.b? I dunno just a thought perhaps.

And that's only if they deem this applies to SS, Again I Dunno if this is right but maybe?

[noajthan]

Hi, very quick response, thank you.
The very top of this topic stated my/our position......... " I am a UK citizen who was working in Spain for 8 years during which time met and married my non-EEA wife. Living and working together there for 5 years. Business finished and I returned to UK with my wife, entering by car at Dover quoting Surinder Singh with relevant paperwork successfully.

I was over 60 years old at the time of return and qualified for UK pension credit, so became economically inactive. My reading of the regulations at the time led me to believe my wife could be entitled to Permanent Residence immediately, so duly applied. That was refused but a 5 year Residence Card was issued. That card expires next week."

The whole of the Regulations are applicable to EEA nationals surely, and from that I could see no reason why 15(1)(d) should not cover me as a BC genuinely to be treated as SS

You are jumbling up the Regulations.
Its only Reg 9 that makes you, the BC, a kind of proxy EEA national:
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Latest/ByPage/part1_9

if you come into UK having done a SS gig then you would not qualify as an 'EEA citizen ceasing activity' because you would have been abroad prior to coming to UK. Rather than having been economically active in UK, as per the Regs, prior to ceasing such activity in UK.

You can't mix and match Spain time and UK time; they are different instances of residence and treaty rights.
And if you had only been in UK then EEA Regs would not apply at all as you would not (in this context) be considered to be an EEA citizen.

In your situation, you did the SS gig and returned to UK.
All FM then has to do is stay married (to you) and reside in UK for 5 years.
Due to case law of Eind you have had no need to be a qualified person in UK, so its actually immaterial whether you are economically active or retired or whatever.

After 5 years residence in UK FM will acquire PR (assuming neither party enjoyed any subsequent prolonged absences from UK);
FM may then apply for confirmation of that status.