Italy implemented Directive 2004/38/EC

Robertadt · Post by **Robertadt** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:37 pm

I'm an Italian citizen resident in Uk, my husband, Indian citizen, has got a Uk residence visa. We were not aware of this directive and always applied for Schengen Visas. Again he went last week as we want to go for a short holiday to Spain and he was told by (and so were other people in same situation) that he need no apply for Schengen visa any more as all country except for Norvay are now accepting his Uk residence visa.
The page of the Italian consulate in London has not been upadated withn this new informations but Manchester and Edinbugh have done it.
It states
PLEASE NOTE: The EU Directive 2004/38/CE has been implemented in Italy. Therefore, for family members of EU citizens who do not have the nationality of a Member State residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas and for a short stay in Italy they will not need to apply to this Consulate for a SCHENGEN VISA. Please note that your residence permit should bear a clear reference to the name of the EU citizen to whom you are connected.

My husband's visa does not have my name on it, even if granted because he is my husband.
Does anybody know if it will be necessary to travel with marriage certificate?
Has anybody else been told by any other Schengen members embassies about this new implementation (in particular Spain as we have to travel there)?
What if my husband wants to travell alone? Or to follow me and children afterwards?

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:51 pm

What exact visa does your husband have?

http://www.consmanchester.esteri.it/Con ... in_italia/
is the source of this wonderful quote. Google is a wonderful thing. Nice find!

Robertadt · Post by **Robertadt** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:27 pm

Sorry, should have been more specific, he has got ILR valid till 2017. The previous visa (valid for 5 years) had mine name on it but this one does not. At the Italian consultate they never said anything neither about my name on the visa nor about needing to travel with me.
I just want to make sure that it really is the case with all the other european countries too.

mym · Post by **mym** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:29 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:http://www.consmanchester.esteri.it/Con ... in_italia/
is the source of this wonderful quote. Google is a wonderful thing. Nice find!

http://www.consmanchester.esteri.it/Con ... in_italia/

Note the "Please note that your Residence Card should bear a clear reference to the fact that you are a family member of an EEA National."

That does indeed look like a reference to a permit issued under the EEA Regulations* ["A residence card issued under this regulation may take the form of a stamp in the applicant's passport and shall be entitled "Residence card of a family member of an EEA national"..." as the regulations specify] and if so it would be a welcome change for schengen states to start accepting UK issued ones, given that the UK specificaly refuses to accept those issued elsewhere.

(*of course it will not apply to FLR or ILR residence permits as issued under the UK immigration rules)

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:50 pm

Robertadt wrote:Sorry, should have been more specific, he has got ILR valid till 2017. The previous visa (valid for 5 years) had mine name on it but this one does not. At the Italian consultate they never said anything neither about my name on the visa nor about needing to travel with me.

ILR is valid forever. It does not expire. Are you sure he has ILR?

What exactly is the name of the certificate in his passport?

What does the section I marked in bold mean?

mym · Post by **mym** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:00 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:ILR is valid forever. It does not expire. Are you sure he has ILR?

What exactly is the name of the certificate in his passport?

It will be the 10 year permanent residence card issued under EEA Reg 18.

Robertadt · Post by **Robertadt** » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:17 pm

Yes right, sorry my mistake. Thought was the same. I'm not very familiar.
Anyway at the Italian consulate saw what type of visa he has and told him he does not need the visa any more.
They never mention about having to travel with me or anything similar.

I was just trying to find out if anybody else was told the same thing in any other consulate this days. just to make double sure that this is really happening.

Plus I thought it could be usefull news for somebody else.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:48 am

It is funny that the UK puts an expiry date on a permanent residence card.

Just so you know, they can also not turn you away at the border (even if they think you require a visa), if you can prove you are married by producing a marriage certificate. I would urge you to carry your marriage certificate and a copy of Directive 2004/38/EC

4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a
national of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel
documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member
State concerned shall, before turning them back, give such
persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain the necessary
documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable
period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that
they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.

Post by **archigabe** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:54 pm

Yes right, sorry my mistake. Thought was the same. I'm not very familiar.
Anyway at the Italian consulate saw what type of visa he has and told him he does not need the visa any more.
They never mention about having to travel with me or anything similar.

I was just trying to find out if anybody else was told the same thing in any other consulate this days. just to make double sure that this is really happening. Smile

Plus I thought it could be usefull news for somebody else.

Some other post referred to the Czech republic not requiring visas for E.U spouses with residence card as well. Germany also waives a visa requirement for E.U spouses with Irish residence card...but not for spouses of Irish Citizens...don't ask me why!

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:36 pm

Directive 2004/38/EC eliminates the visa requirement for somebody who has a (EU-law) Residence Card. Spouses of Irish citizens do not have a (EU-law) Residence Card and so are not guaranteed visa free entry.

Robertadt · Post by **Robertadt** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:27 pm

Just to keep you informed....
After writing to Spanish consulate and the Italian without getting any reply my husband decided to go back to the Italian consulate to ask for clarifications. They could not reply to most of his question but told him (this time, just 3 weeks after the first visit in which they said he did not require a Schengen visa any more) that he does require because on his UK visa there isn't my name mentioned. Home office mistake, they said. He was therefore granted a visa for a year.
Anyway, when we entered Spain I asked at the passport control if he would have been let in without a visa and they said yes< with a marriage certificate!
One thing is sure. We know more about the EU law then they do!
Thank you all for replies and support

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Italy implemented Directive 2004/38/EC

Italy implemented Directive 2004/38/EC