PR for EEA Child

[ecogle1976]

Hi,

I am an EEA national and obtained PR (EU law ) in 2013. Now I would like to apply PR for my son (EEA -German National). My questions are as below:

1.What are the documents I need to submit ( 5 years council tax , My PR card, letter from school are enough to support) or do I need to submit my 5 years income details as well.

2.Can I apply PR for my son using online portal?

your guidance will much appreciated and I don't want HO to refuse the application for any reason.

Many Thanks

[secret.simon]

How old is the child? Has it spent five continuous years in the UK as a descendant under 21 of an EEA citizen either exercising treaty rights or holding PR?

Apart from school letters, what other proof of presence in the UK do you have for the child? Remember that you will still need to prove five continuous years.

[twgal]

You cannot apply online for the child, it needs to be a paper application.

[noajthan]

1) Assuming child is applying as a dependent (instead of as a qualified person in his own right) then start here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... als-v4.pdf

2) Son may apply online but only if a Union citizen qualified person who is applying in his own right (not as a family member).

[ecogle1976]

Hi noajthan ,

He is 10 years old, as I said I(EEA National) got my PR through EU law in 2013. He is in UK from year 2. As I understand he already have PR status but I need it to be endorsed officially. As per my understandings that as per EU law application for PR to EEA national is not needed at all, in that case why cant I apply for my son using online portal supported with clear covering letter on what basis that I am applying, to take benefit of passport check and send. To support my application,I got letter from school, several letters from NHS, if needed I will get Letter from GP, Council Tax letters to prove I have't break my residency after acquiring PR. Please let me know is this sufficient going forward.

[secret.simon]

He is in UK from year 2.

Do you mean Year 2 of education (6 to 7 years of age) or two years of age?

to take benefit of passport check and send.

How does passport check and send even come into the picture? That only applies for children who are already British citizens. It does not sound like your child is a British citizen.

As I understand he already have PR status but I need it to be endorsed officially.

Especially if you plan to have him registered as a British citizen.

To support my application,I got letter from school, several letters from NHS, if needed I will get Letter from GP, Council Tax letters to prove I have't break my residency after acquiring PR.

You also need to prove that the child did not break his/her residency.

You need to prove two separate aspects.
a) That one parent either was a qualified person or a PR holder for the five years that the child is claiming residency for.
b) That the child himself/herself was resident in the UK for those five years.

[ecogle1976]

He is in UK from year 2.

Do you mean Year 2 of education (6 to 7 years of age) or two years of age?
Sorry from two years of age

to take benefit of passport check and send.

How does passport check and send even come into the picture? That only applies for children who are already British citizens. It does not sound like your child is a British citizen.
sorry, I mean about https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... rn-service

As I understand he already have PR status but I need it to be endorsed officially.

Especially if you plan to have him registered as a British citizen.
I don't want to apply British Citizenship for him, if I want, My husband is British Citizen, in that case he don't need PR at all. We need PR for him to avoid unnecessary troubles in future, for an example Student Loan.

To support my application,I got letter from school, several letters from NHS, if needed I will get Letter from GP, Council Tax letters to prove I have't break my residency after acquiring PR.

You also need to prove that the child did not break his/her residency.
I think school letters, and letters from GP will sufficient, If I say he never broke his residency, then HO to dig the info to prove it Or on safer side , let me know how can I prove this as he is holding German passport, it was never get stamps while we travelled within Europe.

You need to prove two separate aspects.
a) That one parent either was a qualified person or a PR holder for the five years that the child is claiming residency for.
b) That the child himself/herself was resident in the UK for those five years.

Thanks for the above, everything clear , to prove his residency school letter is morethan sufficient becuase no school gives leave more than max of two months.

[ecogle1976]

Hi Simon,

a) That one parent either was a qualified person or a PR holder for the five years that the child is claiming residency for.

As I have PR from 2013, that will explicit that I have maintained before 5 years as qualified person or still I need to prove them again few years before 2013 as qualified person? to sum up 5 years.

Many thanks

[secret.simon]

I believe that all the proof for the whole five years needs to be resubmitted, but wait for others to comment.

[secret.simon]

Did your husband acquire British citizenship before or after your son was born?

[ecogle1976]

I believe that all the proof for the whole five years needs to be resubmitted, but wait for others to comment.

Hi,

Yes, My husband is the father of the applicant. If they ask me to submit all 5 years of evidences, it's really painful and meaningless that I acquired PR on basis of qualified person in UK for continuous 5 years. PR is the proof to show that you have maintained your treaty rights and got your leave to remain in UK, in my thinking and logical approach PR is form of alternative evidence to show you are qualified person.

Many Thanks

[ecogle1976]

Did your husband acquire British citizenship before or after your son was born?

Hi Simon
My husband acquired British citizenship after my son born
Road map : EEA FP > RC> PR> Then BC

I know if he acquired BC before my son born, he can apply for British passport directly.

Many thanks

[ecogle1976]

Did your husband acquire British citizenship before or after your son was born?

Hi Simon
My husband acquired British citizenship after my son born

I know if he acquired BC before my son born, he can apply for British passport directly.

The thing is we don't want to spend another 1000 pounds for my son to become BC as he already holds German passport we think it will good for him, if he decided to settle in Germany in future. As Germany is not allowing Dual nationality ( assuming after Brexit ) but we need to make him safer against future UK policies by getting PR.

Many thanks

[secret.simon]

Apologies, I was just checking. Had your child been a British citizen by birth, I was not sure if he could also hold PR as a dependent of an EEA citizen simultaneously.

it's really painful and meaningless that I acquired PR on basis of qualified person in UK for continuous 5 years. PR is the proof to show that you have maintained your treaty rights and got your leave to remain in UK, in my thinking and logical approach PR is form of alternative evidence to show you are qualified person.

Under the EEA regulations, each application is decided independently, irrespective of any former application of even the same person, let alone of a sponsor. there have been cases on these forums of a Family Permit application succeeding and yet a Residence Card application of the same person with the same evidence being rejected. Each application would be decided by the caseworker in isolation, based on the evidence given for that specific application and does not take previously decided applications into account.

[ecogle1976]

Apologies, I was just checking. Had your child been a British citizen by birth, I was not sure if he could also hold PR as a dependent of an EEA citizen simultaneously.

He is not BC by birth, because my husband acquired BC after he born.So we trying to obtain PR for him.

it's really painful and meaningless that I acquired PR on basis of qualified person in UK for continuous 5 years. PR is the proof to show that you have maintained your treaty rights and got your leave to remain in UK, in my thinking and logical approach PR is form of alternative evidence to show you are qualified person.

Under the EEA regulations, each application is decided independently, irrespective of any former application of even the same person, let alone of a sponsor. there have been cases on these forums of a Family Permit application succeeding and yet a Residence Card application of the same person with the same evidence being rejected. Each application would be decided by the caseworker in isolation, based on the evidence given for that specific application and does not take previously decided applications into account.

But this different from what you are saying above, as you said in your previous post that I need to prove two different aspects to satisfy case worker. To prove that my son is dependent on me (Under21) I need not to show any evidences about my income, moreover I have already proven the HO , that I acquired PR as qualified person.

[secret.simon]

I need not to show any evidences about my income, moreover I have already proven the HO , that I acquired PR as qualified person.

My point is that you will need to prove this again.

So, you will need to prove to the caseworker that
(i)As an EEA sponsor
a) You were a qualified person between 2010 and 2013 (yes, you will have to resubmit the same proof
- Payslips, P60s, etc for that period.
b) You held PR since 2013
- DCPR, but you will also have to list your absences and show proof that you have not lost your PR by staying outside the UK for two years. So, if you are still working, show proof of that, not to prove treaty rights, but to prove your presence in the UK.

(ii) the applicant (your son) has resided in the UK for five continuous years.
- I think you have already got that evidence sorted.

[ecogle1976]

I need not to show any evidences about my income, moreover I have already proven the HO , that I acquired PR as qualified person.

My point is that you will need to prove this again.

So, you will need to prove to the caseworker that
(i)As an EEA sponsor
a) You were a qualified person between 2010 and 2013 (yes, you will have to resubmit the same proof
- Payslips, P60s, etc for that period.
Why should I show the evidences between 2010 and 2013, as I am applying in Jan 2017, it should be for the last 5 years ( Jan 2012 -Until PR obtained date)
b) You held PR since 2013
- DCPR, but you will also have to list your absences and show proof that you have not lost your PR by staying outside the UK for two years. So, if you are still working, show proof of that, not to prove treaty rights, but to prove your presence in the UK.

(ii) the applicant (your son) has resided in the UK for five continuous years.
- I think you have already got that evidence sorted.

[ecogle1976]

I need not to show any evidences about my income, moreover I have already proven the HO , that I acquired PR as qualified person.

My point is that you will need to prove this again.

So, you will need to prove to the caseworker that
(i)As an EEA sponsor
a) You were a qualified person between 2010 and 2013 (yes, you will have to resubmit the same proof
- Payslips, P60s, etc for that period.
b) You held PR since 2013
- DCPR, but you will also have to list your absences and show proof that you have not lost your PR by staying outside the UK for two years. So, if you are still working, show proof of that, not to prove treaty rights, but to prove your presence in the UK.

(ii) the applicant (your son) has resided in the UK for five continuous years.
- I think you have already got that evidence sorted.

Hi Simon,

I have just gone through the PR application, as per the application I need not to show any evidences.

to highlight this I paste the section 9 of the application


Section 9 - Relevant EEA national’s activity in the UK

9.1 If you’re applying as the family member or extended family member of the relevant EEA national named in section 2, or because you have retained your right of residence, does the relevant EEA national have a document certifying permanent residence? Yes - go to 9.2

9.2 If you have answered yes to question 9.1, give details of the document below Date of issue: D D M M Y Y Y Y Document reference number:
9.3 Are you enclosing the document with your application? Yes No If you have answered yes to question 9.3, you do not have to complete the rest of this section – go straight to section 16 instead. However, we reserve the right to ask you for more information if necessary.

Many thanks

[noajthan]

Hi noajthan ,

He is 10 years old, as I said I(EEA National) got my PR through EU law in 2013. He is in UK from year 2. As I understand he already have PR status but I need it to be endorsed officially. As per my understandings that as per EU law application for PR to EEA national is not needed at all, in that case why cant I apply for my son using online portal supported with clear covering letter on what basis that I am applying, to take benefit of passport check and send. To support my application,I got letter from school, several letters from NHS, if needed I will get Letter from GP, Council Tax letters to prove I have't break my residency after acquiring PR. Please let me know is this sufficient going forward.

The online service is new and experimental. It has only been rolled out for Union citizens who are qualified persons.
If that is your son he may apply.
However if he is applying as a direct family member dependent (of you) then apply by paper form.

You will need more than what you have outlined.
Suggest read and follow the PR form and guidance - its fairly clear and quite comprehensive.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... orm-eea-pr

[noajthan]

I believe that all the proof for the whole five years needs to be resubmitted, but wait for others to comment.

Hi,

Yes, My husband is the father of the applicant. If they ask me to submit all 5 years of evidences, it's really painful and meaningless that I acquired PR on basis of qualified person in UK for continuous 5 years. PR is the proof to show that you have maintained your treaty rights and got your leave to remain in UK, in my thinking and logical approach PR is form of alternative evidence to show you are qualified person.

Many Thanks

Unfortunately this process is not about efficiency or anyone's convenience.

The period during which son acquired his PR may or may not be the same period in which sponsor acquired their PR status.

You need to submit each application with full and comprehensive supporting documentation.
Don't take anything for granted.
Don't expect caseworker to give benefit of doubt and wave someone through.

For example, suggest back up that school letter with additional supporting evidence of residence.
Don't assume its enough just because of 'school policy'.

[ecogle1976]

I believe that all the proof for the whole five years needs to be resubmitted, but wait for others to comment.

Hi,

Yes, My husband is the father of the applicant. If they ask me to submit all 5 years of evidences, it's really painful and meaningless that I acquired PR on basis of qualified person in UK for continuous 5 years. PR is the proof to show that you have maintained your treaty rights and got your leave to remain in UK, in my thinking and logical approach PR is form of alternative evidence to show you are qualified person.

Many Thanks

Unfortunately this process is not about efficiency or anyone's convenience.

The period during which son acquired his PR may or may not be the same period in which sponsor acquired their PR status.

You need to submit each application with full and comprehensive supporting documentation.
Don't take anything for granted.
Don't expect caseworker to give benefit of doubt and wave someone through.

For example, suggest back up that school letter with additional supporting evidence of residence.
Don't assume its enough just because of 'school policy'.

The simplest form of my question is, still do I need submit all the evidences for 5 years to get PR for my son?

because recently I have submitted application for RC for MIL with my PR card without giving my income details, home office accepted it but they refused due to insufficient evidences to prove dependency.

I have seen most of the my family friends submitted their PR application for them and their children along with letter from school, none of them got rejected.

Many Thanks

[twgal]

If I were you I would include those documents that show (not income but) proof that you exercised your rights here as a EEA citizen. You don't want to give them a reason for refusal, right?

Obviously would have been much easier if you had included your son in your PR application in 2013... but that's too late now.


PS. I thought Germany allowed dual nationality if the other nationality is EU or Swiss....

[ecogle1976]

If I were you I would include those documents that show (not income but) proof that you exercised your rights here as a EEA citizen. You don't want to give them a reason for refusal, right?

Obviously would have been much easier if you had included your son in your PR application in 2013... but that's too late now.


PS. I thought Germany allowed dual nationality if the other nationality is EU or Swiss....

Hi,
That time we never expect Brexit will happen. You have said those documents, what documents to prove exercising treaty rights?
Germany allow dual nationality for son at the moment, but in case if UK out of EU then he has to choose nationality between UK and Germany. We would like to hold German nationality but same time we would like to establish our rights.

[twgal]

Whatever documents you showed when you obtained your PR (if worker - p60s, employment letters, council tax statements etc) - but this time they also have to cover the period when your son acquired his PR. As noajthan explained to you already:

The period during which son acquired his PR may or may not be the same period in which sponsor acquired their PR status.

Plus school letters to prove his presence here.

[twgal]

PS. You need to apply by post and - once UKVI receives the application - you can request passports to be returned to you, so that UKVI doesn't keep them there while your son's application is being processed.

https://eforms.homeoffice.gov.uk/outrea ... ments.ofml