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Employment History discrepancy

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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Noetic
Member of Standing
Posts: 425
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:34 am

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by Noetic » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:03 am

It's possible if either your employer is dodgy and keeps the money they tell you (on payslips etc) they deducted in tax and NI for themselves, or if they are useless and somehow submit it against the wrong person / NI number.

In any case this is tax already deducted from your wages and if the employment lasted a long time can amount to a lot of money. Other than not querying lack of P60s at the time OP has done no wrong and had no way of knowing anything was wrong.

OP has been very quiet about receiving P60s from this employment so I'm assuming they never got any - which should be a big warning sign if you don't get P60s or your pay slips don't say your NI number and total tax paid

BUT - there are some people on another thread OP linked to who do have P60 and payslips all saying tax was paid. So unless you apply for contribution based benefits or request employment history for one reason or another, you have absolutely no reason to think anything is wrong.

Like I said this is PAYE tax that the employer already took off your wages at the time - if you get your payslip every week or month and your P60s why on earth would you suspect the employer had actually stolen that money from you without paying it to HMRC? (Unless you're the employer's dodgy accountant! ;) )

Annonymous
Member
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:57 am

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by Annonymous » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:56 am

Noetic wrote:It's possible if either your employer is dodgy and keeps the money they tell you (on payslips etc) they deducted in tax and NI for themselves, or if they are useless and somehow submit it against the wrong person / NI number.

In any case this is tax already deducted from your wages and if the employment lasted a long time can amount to a lot of money. Other than not querying lack of P60s at the time OP has done no wrong and had no way of knowing anything was wrong.

OP has been very quiet about receiving P60s from this employment so I'm assuming they never got any - which should be a big warning sign if you don't get P60s or your pay slips don't say your NI number and total tax paid

BUT - there are some people on another thread OP linked to who do have P60 and payslips all saying tax was paid. So unless you apply for contribution based benefits or request employment history for one reason or another, you have absolutely no reason to think anything is wrong.

Like I said this is PAYE tax that the employer already took off your wages at the time - if you get your payslip every week or month and your P60s why on earth would you suspect the employer had actually stolen that money from you without paying it to HMRC? (Unless you're the employer's dodgy accountant! ;) )
Hi
thanks for your explanation I work my self as a Corporate Finance and a Management Accounts and taxation consultant this is the first time I have come across any such thing.

To the best of my knowledge the PAYE is RTI based which means it gets submitted on a monthly basis.

2nd thing is the nature of this problem it really put me in doubts.

I have never ever paid any attention to the fact that how my tax is submitted I think if you are on a PAYE that's solely employers responsibility to pay your PAYE.

On the other hand if that's what you are saying to me than I believe UKBA should go an catch the employer responsible for this kind of stuff not the employee that's what my thoughts at least.

Getting worried about any thing wont make it better in any way shape of form.

The best advice come to my mind is that if the HMRC has no record of this employment than I think its pretty pointless mentioning on the AN form. that's what my thoughts or at least that's what I'll do God Forbid if I'll be in a similar boat as OP.

If the employment history doesn't exist with HMRC the OP can still prove it with the salary payment received in his/her bank account and the payslips issued. Off course UKBA can't turn back and say that you have made these salary payments by your self so I think we can use this approach to solve this kind of a problem and just attach all the bank statements and payslips and P60s to prove if they are available to the OP.

Apologies if my idea didn't sound much brighter.

I have never ever come across any such thread on this forum which will tells us about a problem of this nature.

If I'll be any kind of help to you mate please do not hesitate to contact me.

Good luck mate with your naturalisation.

Kindly keep us updated on the forum.
1st Visa Application 20 12 2013
1st Visa Refusal 05 06 2014
2nd Visa Application 20 March 2015
2nd Visa Refusal 04 06 2015
Appealed 26 06 2015
Review Deadline 11th November 2015
By the Grace of Almighty Allah Appeal Allowed On 08th July 2016

123kidd
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:01 pm

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by 123kidd » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:23 pm

Thanks Noetic and Annonymous for your replies.

Unfortunately I dont have any P45's or P60's from that employment, all I have are payslips and the contract of employment. It was 2009/2010 and as it was my second job, I didnt pay much attention to the p45 and p60 as i have already received them from other employment and used them to secure a new position at a different place, so i had to move away. Iam glad that I have saved all the documents I used since my student application.

I agree, nothing comes out from worrying but at the same time I can't stay relaxed either, as this is my whole future I planned ahead which will be affected.

Like @Annonymous mentioned I initially thought of leaving those employment details from AN but realised UKBA has those details from my initial Tier 1 application. Thats when I really got confused what to and what not to include in the AN form.

Later what @Noetic suggested seemed right, including everything I had listed in my initial tier1 and providing additional payslips and contract letter along with AN application. But then comes the next doubt - what if HO decides against my ILR in the process of checking AN application and just refuse my ILR completely and hang me out to dry to fight/appeal with the documents I have.

I know I sound very confused and infact I really am. Naturalisation is critical at this point for my career and at the same time can't afford to lose ILR. This is what makes me very worried.

123kidd
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:01 pm

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by 123kidd » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:30 pm

Also iam giving a great deal of thought to paying the tax to HMRC myself if it comes to that for the sake of my naturalisation application. The bullet I would like to take for being negligent and irresponsible during the employment.

Edit: I meant paying by arranging some instalment process with HMRC

argus7
Senior Member
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 1:18 pm
Wales

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by argus7 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:36 pm

You have two problems from what I see.

1. HMRC has no record of BR tax code sent to you and the PAYE ref of that employer - Main Issue
2. BR tax code is 20% meaning you are not fully taxed at 40% ( so you are liable to pay more PAYE) as this is not collected.you have have exasuted all your personal allowances for that tax year(s) in question.

This will take minimum 6 - 8 weeks or even more to resolve. You will need to contact HMRC and NIC office to see if NI is collected as well.

The checks done as per new AN forms has employment and that will be checked down to the records from HMRC /NI tax history.

So be proactive and resolve this issue before Naturalization. I have been shouting on the ILR forums as well that tax and NI has to be accurate down to the penny!

Rizcon
Member
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:06 pm

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by Rizcon » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:18 pm

123kidd wrote:Hi, I really need your advise on this.

Iam planning on applying for Naturalisation in a couple of months and I just found that my employer which I used to get my initial Tier1 visa has not paid my taxes, hence HMRC has no record of that employment. And that employer has dissolved his company 4 years ago. And I dont have any of their details except the payslips from the company.

My timeline:
Entry as a student in 2005.
Initial Tier 1 - 2009 - Employment from 2 jobs of which 1 has not paid any taxes
Tier 1 extn - 2012 - Director of a limited company.
ILR - 2014 - Director of a limited company.

Recently I have requested my employment history from HMRC and shocked to find my previous employment in HMRC records does not exist.

So now UKBA has those details for my Tier1 application but HMRC doesn't. How do I solve this issue before I apply for naturalisation??

Can I leave the employment details in 10 years history in AN1 form?? Or add it anyway as UKBA has the record of it??

Please help me in this regard.
Hi mate,

It's very difficult to speak on this issue, but in my opinion if you can't sort out this tax issue, then never ever think not to mention this employment in AN form employment history. Just mention it in a normal way and don't send any pay slips etc with the application and don't put any comments about this issue in additional information. Keep the all evidence safe and send them if they ask you to do so.
Sending the pay slips or any other evidence or writing some thing about it will definitely raise the concerns and not mentioning it in the history will also be a problem as HO have this information in their records.
It's totally up to you, but don't alert them about this issue by your self.

argus7
Senior Member
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 1:18 pm
Wales

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by argus7 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:47 am

you need to declare that employment if you have used, gained points for T1 visa or extension. HO will cross verify employment from salary claimed.

There have been many citizenship/ILR cases been refused due to missing PAYE income. You need to get back to HMRC and check and payback!.

This will be a 100% refusal or a 10 year ban

Abc499
Member
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:12 pm

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by Abc499 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:13 pm

@ 123kidd
On my opinion the best action will be.

You should contact HMRC and inform on this. Here in this forum also I read on similar issue, HMRC ask the employee to send them the payslips/p60/bank statements and after sending the details HMRC update his/her employment record. I am not saying they will do the same for you but probably this is the first thing you should try if you believe that you have been cheated by your employer. If you do this then at least you can show that this is things you have done as soon as you notice it. Now PAYE need to update HMRC monthly but earlier (10/11)employer update yearly too so this kind of issue might had more earlier. Also for T-1 I have seen good number of cases now that earlier some people create company in different director name and took bad quality payslip from that company and later close the company without paying tax after visa application. UKVI also notice this probably, So if you inform HMRC then it is something that you tried which you can do from your position after you notice it and also this might help you to establish the fact that you were not involved with dodgy things.

Also as an employee, you can not pay for that tax as its your employer tax and you might not the only employee and HMRC do not allocate any payment that this amount for this employee (wanting to pay the huge amount of tax for employer will not be also good sign and will indicate something else). So if HMRC consider your issue by proving the necessary documents then they will update you employment history and the tax will be remain due on that employer file. But if the employer was never registered on PAYE then there is no chance for anything (this chance is less i think). As it is not your mistake, hope you will find a way. Good luck.

sanjaywakhare
Junior Member
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:09 am
Location: India

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by sanjaywakhare » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:25 pm

Hi,
Call HMRC and confirm. I may have incorrect information but is it not true that when you request employment history from HMRC they provide it to you only for last 5 years. Because that's what they hold on their database. For employment older than that they have to refer archive database which takes longer time.
So if your employment in question is year 2009/2010 it will not appear anyway..

123kidd
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:01 pm

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by 123kidd » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:24 pm

hi all,

I have finally decided to submit my AN application with all the details I have given previously. And Iam also preparing if the worst happens.

Get all the documents ready to submit if HO asks for more details and I have a question, if in case my application is rejected, Can I appeal it? and goto JR? And while my appeal is going on, will I still be able to work and continue on my current ILR?

Thanks for all your valuable information.

ohara
Diamond Member
Posts: 1826
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:00 pm
Location: hiding in a badger sett
United Kingdom

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by ohara » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:33 pm

Why do you think it will be unsuccessful?

Citizenship is a privilege not a right, and there is no appeal process.

Your immigration status will not change until your application is approved and you've attended the ceremony.

If your application is unsuccessful you will still have ILR and can carry on.

123kidd
Newly Registered
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:01 pm

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by 123kidd » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:39 pm

ohara wrote:Why do you think it will be unsuccessful?

Citizenship is a privilege not a right, and there is no appeal process.

Your immigration status will not change until your application is approved and you've attended the ceremony.

If your application is unsuccessful you will still have ILR and can carry on.
I agree with what you said but my case has got an employment discrepancy between HO and HMRC. My employment details from 2009 are not available with HMRC at all. And my concern is that HO will reject my application based on that and hold me responsible for the employer details not being present.

Iam even more concerned they may ban me for 10 years from applying for naturalisation again.

argus7
Senior Member
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 1:18 pm
Wales

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by argus7 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:42 pm

have you contacted HMRC and owed the tax that was liable ant not paid in 2009. Did you even bother to inform HMRC?

Jas2013
Newly Registered
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:53 am

Re: Employment History discrepancy

Post by Jas2013 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:12 pm

123kidd wrote:hi all,

I have finally decided to submit my AN application with all the details I have given previously. And Iam also preparing if the worst happens.

Get all the documents ready to submit if HO asks for more details and I have a question, if in case my application is rejected, Can I appeal it? and goto JR? And while my appeal is going on, will I still be able to work and continue on my current ILR?

Thanks for all your valuable information.

Hi 123kidd,

Did you receive your approval ?

Thanks,

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